Sorry was laughing too hard to type.
- BiggE

We also saw under Holmgren that the team he built wasn't sustainable. It had to be broken up. I have no doubt that the Flyers under Fletcher can use cap space and assets to wheel and deal to make the team better but to what end? Hextall wanted to build a team that was sustainable to take multiple runs at it over a wide ranging period of time. Not a one and done.
- MJL

This discussion wont play out for a few years but I can understand why upper management felt the need to move on from Hexy.

Again I think the big gatekeeper on what the leadership approach is will be this TDL but more importantly this offseason.

If we start making deals like Tk and Ghost for Quick then we are in a world of trouble. Either way Im willing to give Fletcher a chance as , we can just agree to disagree on this, I felt Hextall had become a bit stale in his approach.

As for the one and done thing...2 wins away from the Cup is the closest we have come for how many years? Ill take 2 wins away from a theoretical "multiple sustained runs"

Good...at least the word Hextall isn’t in this post of yours.

I think we have a different viewpoint. I haven’t seen any reason to be scared. I am in a “watchful waiting” mode.
- NC Flyers Fan

We're you around as a Flyers fan when the Flyers made the switch from Holmgren to (insert bad word)? What did you think then? What were the reasons they made the switch?

We're all in a watchful waiting mode.

This discussion wont play out for a few years but I can understand why upper management felt the need to move on from Hexy.

Again I think the big gatekeeper on what the leadership approach is will be this TDL but more importantly this offseason.

If we start making deals like Tk and Ghost for Quick then we are in a world of trouble. Either way Im willing to give Fletcher a chance as , we can just agree to disagree on this, I felt Hextall had become a bit stale in his approach.

As for the one and done thing...2 wins away from the Cup is the closest we have come for how many years? Ill take 2 wins away from a theoretical "multiple sustained runs"
- opeth_pa

If Fletch made that trade or that type then yes we should worry. We need to give him a chance and trade some prospects if necessary. Folks on here don't want to part with this one and that one but that's what we built this prospect pool for. If there is a smart trade to be made using a couple prospects pull the trigger. Only guy i'd like to view as "safe" outside of the NHL at this point would be Frost, everyone else can be moved.

We're you around as a Flyers fan when the Flyers made the switch from Holmgren to (insert bad word)? What did you think then? What were the reasons they made the switch?

We're all in a watchful waiting mode.
- MJL

I was in fact a fan then. I thought...there is some merit to the plan....l was watchfully waiting. I am still in the same place, just with a new GM.

trade deadline was always going to be the first real chance to see what Fletcher would do, we shall see...

This discussion wont play out for a few years but I can understand why upper management felt the need to move on from Hexy.

Again I think the big gatekeeper on what the leadership approach is will be this TDL but more importantly this offseason.

If we start making deals like Tk and Ghost for Quick then we are in a world of trouble. Either way Im willing to give Fletcher a chance as , we can just agree to disagree on this, I felt Hextall had become a bit stale in his approach.

As for the one and done thing...2 wins away from the Cup is the closest we have come for how many years? Ill take 2 wins away from a theoretical "multiple sustained runs"
- opeth_pa

I'm perfectly willing to give Fletcher a chance also. I have no reason not to support him as GM yet. He hasn't had the job long enough to even get a read on how he is going to do.

Despite some who offer the hyperbole that the Flyers are going to trade all of their young players, nobody thinks that. However I think it's safe to say that given his mandate, reinforced by the Scott article I linked, the Flyers are going to trade some highly valued assets in an attempt to start winning now.


As far as your last comment, that's perfectly illustrates my point. The Flyers way in the past under Holmgren was certainly successful in terms of competitiveness and playoff appearances, they still only got close once! They then decided they needed to change but it didn't happen fast enough. So lets go back to the way it used to be under Holmgren. I don't want to get close once! I want more. What's the best way to do that? By Scott giving Fletcher the mandate to be aggressive and be a cap team? I don't think that is the right way to reach that goal.

I was in fact a fan then. I thought...there is some merit to the plan....l was watchfully waiting. I am still in the same place, just with a new GM.
- NC Flyers Fan

The team and the new GM isn't in the same place. That's the point.

trade deadline was always going to be the first real chance to see what Fletcher would do, we shall see...
- wcorvette

Only way I am judging this TDL is if Fletcher improves the team from what it is now. It could be small moves or even big moves, as long as it doesn't stay the same.

The team and the new GM isn't in the same place. That's the point.
- MJL

Bingo!...this is the point our viewpoints differ.

I have a feeling Giroux is going to have an even better 2nd half of the season. I also think Voracek will go through one of his blazing hot streaks soon. Time will tell.

I also couldn’t resist $10 tickets for tonight’s game. They better have Gritty dolls ffs

I have a feeling Giroux is going to have an even better 2nd half of the season. I also think Voracek will go through one of his blazing hot streaks soon. Time will tell.

I also couldn’t resist $10 tickets for tonight’s game. They better have Gritty dolls ffs
- arichardson22

I'm holding out for Taryn dolls

Only way I am judging this TDL is if Fletcher improves the team from what it is now. It could be small moves or even big moves, as long as it doesn't stay the same.
- Glak18

There was a quote from Fletcher today and I might be paraphrasing slightly....”we can’t continue to keep putting the same players on the ice and expect different results...”

Edit: this was in reference to minor moves of Weal and Weise.

I have a feeling Giroux is going to have an even better 2nd half of the season. I also think Voracek will go through one of his blazing hot streaks soon. Time will tell.

I also couldn’t resist $10 tickets for tonight’s game. They better have Gritty dolls ffs
- arichardson22

I agree, lets take these next three games and keep it going. Gonna need 3 out of 4 every 4 game set if we have a shot of getting back in this.

I'm perfectly willing to give Fletcher a chance also. I have no reason not to support him as GM yet. He hasn't had the job long enough to even get a read on how he is going to do.

Despite some who offer the hyperbole that the Flyers are going to trade all of their young players, nobody thinks that. However I think it's safe to say that given his mandate, reinforced by the Scott article I linked, the Flyers are going to trade some highly valued assets in an attempt to start winning now.


As far as your last comment, that's perfectly illustrates my point. The Flyers way in the past under Holmgren was certainly successful in terms of competitiveness and playoff appearances, they still only got close once! They then decided they needed to change but it didn't happen fast enough. So lets go back to the way it used to be under Holmgren. I don't want to get close once! I want more. What's the best way to do that? By Scott giving Fletcher the mandate to be aggressive and be a cap team? I don't think that is the right way to reach that goal.
- MJL

I get what you are saying on the approach in your last paragraph but I dont think anyone , certainly not me, is saying go back to the Holmgren approach.

To me it's a pretty simple equation as there are only two measures of success for a leader: effective or ineffective .

While no leader has lead this team to a Cup in over 40 years Holmgren was more successful then Hextall was in his tenure and I dont think their is anything wrong with wanting to get back to that level of success. Im a firm believer in the Extreme Ownership approach and saying they had different rosters, different roles, different agendas or whatever are really just excuses. Again for me the only measure that matters in a leader is effective or ineffective .

Im not saying theoretical multiple runs are a bad thing but rather that until they happen they are still theoretical . As a fan I can just keep paying for a carrot that never comes. That being said the previous approach didnt lead to a cup win either so Im really hoping these multiple runs show up sometime soon.

Sorry was laughing too hard to type.
- BiggE

I hope you did not spill your 18 years old Macallan

Only way I am judging this TDL is if Fletcher improves the team from what it is now. It could be small moves or even big moves, as long as it doesn't stay the same.
- Glak18

I don't know that it's fair to have the expectation that Fletcher improves the team at the deadline.

I get what you are saying on the approach in your last paragraph but I dont think anyone , certainly not me, is saying go back to the Holmgren approach.

To me it's a pretty simple equation as there are only two measures of success for a leader: effective or ineffective .

While no leader has lead this team to a Cup in over 40 years Holmgren was more successful then Hextall was in his tenure and I dont think their is anything wrong with wanting to get back to that level of success. Im a firm believer in the Extreme Leadership approach and saying they had different rosters, different roles, different agendas or whatever are really just excuses. Again for me the only measure that matters in a leader is effective or ineffective .

Im not saying theoretical multiple runs are a bad thing but rather that until they happen they are still theoretical . As a fan I can just keep paying for a carrot that never comes. That being said the previous approach didnt lead to a cup win either so Im really hoping these multiple runs show up sometime soon.
- opeth_pa

Actually Dave Scott is who is saying go back to the Holmgren approach.

Is it really excuses that Hextall had to take time to build the prospect base back up? Or to take time to get the Cap picture square away? To take the time to move the team in a different direction from where the team was when he took over? Don't get me wrong, Holmgren left him with some good pieces to work with but it still took time.

Here is my thing. I want the Flyers at some point to be a cap team. It's about how you get to that point though. If all goes well the Flyers are going to have some really good players that will eventually also need to get paid. The more JVR's you go after now in an attempt to just get better quicker, the more risk you run of losing players that you don't want to lose. When you get to that point of having to make tough decisions, you want to be a team that achieved more than just getting close one year.

that comment was a bit of a shot...at Hextall to say the least.
- landros 2

It also shows a distinct lack of awareness. Despite what some here believe, they were forced to call up Hart due to injuries. It wasn't a genius move by Fletcher or Scott.

I see Dave Scott is the boogie man now.
- hereticpride

Ideally Fletch in making a big trade brings in young established NHL players with skill and not bottom six types because you know the locker room.
If Myers would be a tradeable asset at some point if I was Fletch I'm not trading Myers until I see him play NHL games.
I wouldn't trade the bank for Trouba unless there was a very solid idea he would resign with the flyers and a ballpark salary to plan on.
I Would send Haag or Gudas, a Rubstov or NAK type prospect and a 1st rounder 15 or higher depending what A Simmonds trade may bring. If they won't do that then I look elsewhere.
There is a middle ground between Hextall's very conservative approach and Homers win it now style.
Being a cap team is fine if you can manage it well and not leave yourself strapped and not able to resign young players or sign the right guy.
The flyers had the cap room to make mid level moves i.e. 3c and goalie. I understand Hextall was forced to probably overpay to fill those needs and was unwilling to do so.
That in hindsight got him fired.
It doesn't matter what business it is if your product is failing or not very good your not going to be successful. In the high profile business of major pro sports that isn't going to fly.
The Flyers need to use all the tools available to win the cup. That means also paying for the best cap gurus short and long term. The best scouts, the best trainers etc.
I'm hoping Scott is thinking long term success not save his ass success.

I think Fletch is doing a good job so far.

He's gotten rid of some dead weight in Weal and Weise. He swapped Leier for Bailey, and Bailey has been playing nicely for the Phantoms.

Lastly, I think the biggest move he has made is firing Hakstol. It had to be done.


- bmoreflyer

None of that changed this season, nor does any of it improve the team for next season.

There was a quote from Fletcher today and I might be paraphrasing slightly....”we can’t continue to keep putting the same players on the ice and expect different results...”

Edit: this was in reference to minor moves of Weal and Weise.
- NC Flyers Fan

Sounds like a smart man.

So far to this point I havent seen anything close to rush or being too aggressive.
- opeth_pa

Because there weren't/aren't good moves to make. Which was kind of Hextall's point. I don't think he was anti-move, but I do think he was "anti-move just for the sake of making a move," whereas Scott seems to be a "make some moves!!!!!!1" kind of guy.

It also shows a distinct lack of awareness. Despite what some here believe, they were forced to call up Hart due to injuries. It wasn't a genius move by Fletcher or Scott.
- Scoob

It’s a fact that injuries were the reason...I think the only doubt comes about if the previous administration would have made moves like the McKenna pickup plus low level trade options and play “vets” in goal. It was unlikely Hart would have been given this much leeway. It is impossible to know how it would have played out so it’s not that best thing to comment on. Scott would have known Hextall’s thinking better than us...or is that also part of the problem.