...TEAMS win championships, as we know too well with a Hart Trophy finalist in the basement of the Central Division.

If you were meaning the Hawks, a lot of that comes from the decision to start the season with a different coach, and not allow any time for transition prior to the season counting.

Or put another way, based upon the system that has been put in place, along with a different player eval by a different coaching staff -after that trainwreck of a losing streak ... I just don't think this would be a last place team. Not saying a first place one, but this is a competitive team and it doesn't look like they quit. Last season - they quit after January rolled around, and it was pretty ugly.

I'd be interested to know what rate the PP is at if you ditch the first 2 months of the season; maybe even only 6 weeks. It has been a major factor in the turn-around. Watching it, it isn't a fluke, either --there is a lot more movement on that than I recall seeing in a long long time...

https://www.thefourthperi...ask-seabrook-to-waive-nmc

Delia has regressed a bit since the hot start. Whether that's due to the league scouting him more closely, or coming down to earth, hard to say. If it's about the scouting, then it's on Delia to make the next adjustment.

What kind of return is possible for Gus? I mentioned in a previous thread what Chiarelli paid for Kaberle in 2011. Is a return like that even possible, or is that more about Chiarelli? And how much of the PP success is due to Gus, as opposed to the system now used, or even the addition of Strome to the 1st unit?
- 333inthe3rd

I would guess the best offer comes at the last minute. But someone probably will overpay and make a proposition before then. It is up to Bowman to take the best offer at deadline or later. Hard to figure how it turns out.

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/feb-2019/hawks-ask-seabrook-to-waive-nmc
- deadpoulet

https://www.secondcityhoc...trade-rumors-reports-2019


He told them no...easily Bowman's worst move, but there are so many it's hard to keep track...we're stuck with this deal. He's not going anywhere.

Nice win...just think if we actually had a defense this season...as far as Gus great to finally have a PP QB, but the guy can't get out of his own end of the rink to save his life.

It really comes down to the defense - the question is do you wait for the kids to develop and hopefully a couple of them become what you want/need and continue to burn the core's clock. Or do you actually sign someone or two other than Brandan Manning in the offseason for the back end.

On to Edmonton...nice little push here by the Hawks, but a lot of teams to climb over.

I would mind keeping Keith, and I don't think the Hawk would mind this either. Seabrook is Iconic, and will forever be Iconic here in Chicago as is Keith, but I think it would make the most sense to entertain moving him. That opens up a spot for Joki, and then next season you see who stays with the big team out of Gus, Forsling, and Dahlstrom to make room for one of Boqvist, Mitchel or Beudin if they're ready with Keith still here mentoring guys and still playing at a respectable level. I think this is the best direction, now it's just a matter of if they can trade Seabs, and if he will waive his no move, which per yesterday's report isn't happening.

https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2019/2/2/18208786/blackhawks-brent-seabrook-refused-waive-no-movement-clause-nhl-trade-rumors-reports-2019


He told them no...easily Bowman's worst move, but there are so many it's hard to keep track...we're stuck with this deal. He's not going anywhere.

Nice win...just think if we actually had a defense this season...as far as Gus great to finally have a PP QB, but the guy can't get out of his own end of the rink to save his life.

It really comes down to the defense - the question is do you wait for the kids to develop and hopefully a couple of them become what you want/need and continue to burn the core's clock. Or do you actually sign someone or two other than Brandan Manning in the offseason for the back end.

On to Edmonton...nice little push here by the Hawks, but a lot of teams to climb over.
- DK002

Do wonder who leaked both of these things from the FO. My money is actually on Stan or his staff as a means of putting pressure on the guys to ultimately waive before deadline (hey, we don't need/want you here anymore), getting the fans used to the idea (they even had a formal poll about it on NBCSN), and testing the market (some teams may have assumed Keith off limits?).

The NBCSN crew talked about how this is now going to be a brain worm for the players - how their willingness to waive may change after they have a chance to think about it and discuss with their families.

Interesting to see if it results in renewed effort / pissed off play from both of the guys or has the opposite effect. Wondering if there will be any ripple through the rest of the room. Hope not, as I think JC and the leaders actually had the team playing as one and moving in the right direction morale and effort wise.

This warmed my soul this grey winter's morn. . .

Adam Vingan
@AdamVingan

The Predators are 0 for their past 30 power-play opportunities, stretching to Jan. 9 against the Blackhawks.

Do wonder who leaked both of these things from the FO. My money is actually on Stan or his staff as a means of putting pressure on the guys to ultimately waive before deadline (hey, we don't need/want you here anymore), getting the fans used to the idea (they even had a formal poll about it on NBCSN), and testing the market (some teams may have assumed Keith off limits?).

The NBCSN crew talked about how this is now going to be a brain worm for the players - how their willingness to waive may change after they have a chance to think about it and discuss with their families.

Interesting to see if it results in renewed effort / pissed off play from both of the guys or has the opposite effect. Wondering if there will be any ripple through the rest of the room. Hope not, as I think JC and the leaders actually had the team playing as one and moving in the right direction morale and effort wise.
- pdx2ord

I say this respectfully.

Outside a few core guys with big contracts and term, this team is comprised of 15 guys playing for their NHL futures and a job or role anywhere. That is why, when some present the idea that players are going to throw tantrums, or sulk, or play bad on purpose, it is the furthest thing from reality or the truth. These guys are professionals who get paid to produce.

I understand the emotional element some posit with things potentially "rippling" thru a team, but it does not happen. Sure, every now and again it may pop up in extreme circumstances, but not day to day. Team mates would call that out.

Does anyone really believe that Kane would like to have things go back to how they were under Q? He is playing the best hockey of his life. Toews, Kane Seabrook and Keith would love nothing more than to stick up their middle finger to all their critics and devout "fans", who believe they are done and will not win anymore.

The ugly transition process that occurred in November was healthy for the long term. The Country Club board members were forced back into general population with the grounds keepers and valets. It is a humbling process. But you see the results. Q made excuses for them and sheltered them for 8 years. Now they are accountable, not entitled and have taken ownership of the team. You can see the new/younger guys are comfortable with that and play in less awe and reliance on them.

Things I’d like to see during the remaining games this season:

1. Finish Strong - I’m not worried about the playoffs or a high draft pick. I want this group to find a way to maintain a winning atmosphere.

2. Trade Gus - I’m a Gus fan and I’m fine with what he brings to the team. I think he could bring a solid return and I don’t think he’ll be re-signed when his contract is up. That being said, I’d only trade him for a very good return.

3. Don’t trade Keith.

4. Trade Hayden - give the kid a chance to play more than 5-6 minutes per night

5. Play Delia as much as possible - he’s good but I’m not sold on him just yet, I’d like to see more.

6. Somehow trade for a solid, defensive minded centre for the bottom 6
- DarthKane

I totally agree on 1. 2. I'm not a Gus fan, but I say keep him this year. Boosts Kane's numbers. If the return is great, sure. Totally agree on 3. If 88, 19, 7, and 2 all hang in the rafters one day, I'll be wearing a smile until I die. 4. I like Hayden, give him a role and more toi. It's silly because his last handful of games have been good. Agree on 5 and 6.

I say this respectfully.

Outside a few core guys with big contracts and term, this team is comprised of 15 guys playing for their NHL futures and a job or role anywhere. That is why, when some present the idea that players are going to throw tantrums, or sulk, or play bad on purpose, it is the furthest thing from reality or the truth. These guys are professionals who get paid to produce.

I understand the emotional element some posit with things potentially "rippling" thru a team, but it does not happen. Sure, every now and again it may pop up in extreme circumstances, but not day to day. Team mates would call that out.

Does anyone really believe that Kane would like to have things go back to how they were under Q? He is playing the best hockey of his life. Toews, Kane Seabrook and Keith would love nothing more than to stick up their middle finger to all their critics and devout "fans", who believe they are done and will not win anymore.

The ugly transition process that occurred in November was healthy for the long term. The Country Club board members were forced back into general population with the grounds keepers and valets. It is a humbling process. But you see the results. Q made excuses for them and sheltered them for 8 years. Now they are accountable, not entitled and have taken ownership of the team. You can see the new/younger guys are comfortable with that and play in less awe and reliance on them.
- TrueGrit

Agree with your last point, for sure. However, we also watched them stink up the ice for several weeks in the wake of the Q firing. I don't think any of it was on purpose or tantrum throwing, but I do think emotions will and do have an effect on play, dollar value of contracts be damned. I look at Kane and his Sochi struggles in the wake of his grandfather dying. They are all human beings first, paid-to-produce assets second.

So, though I do think the ultimate reaction and change that resulted was a positive one, I still saw the emotional ripple effect in play. So far, with Keith as our only data point, the rumors have sparked renewed energy and effort. Hope that continues.

Do wonder who leaked both of these things from the FO. My money is actually on Stan or his staff as a means of putting pressure on the guys to ultimately waive before deadline (hey, we don't need/want you here anymore), getting the fans used to the idea (they even had a formal poll about it on NBCSN), and testing the market (some teams may have assumed Keith off limits?).

The NBCSN crew talked about how this is now going to be a brain worm for the players - how their willingness to waive may change after they have a chance to think about it and discuss with their families.

Interesting to see if it results in renewed effort / pissed off play from both of the guys or has the opposite effect. Wondering if there will be any ripple through the rest of the room. Hope not, as I think JC and the leaders actually had the team playing as one and moving in the right direction morale and effort wise.
- pdx2ord

Watched the Keith interview with Tappen and the way Keith takes about Seabrook. Thinking that asking Seabrook first also has some play with Keith as well as with how Seabrook thinks.

As many have said here the next 3 weeks are going to be interesting and pivotal for the future of this team. Hopefully the FO has plans for all contingencies - 7 & 2 stay, both go, 7 stays & 2 goes, and vice versa.

https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2019/2/2/18208786/blackhawks-brent-seabrook-refused-waive-no-movement-clause-nhl-trade-rumors-reports-2019


He told them no...easily Bowman's worst move, but there are so many it's hard to keep track...we're stuck with this deal. He's not going anywhere.

Nice win...just think if we actually had a defense this season...as far as Gus great to finally have a PP QB, but the guy can't get out of his own end of the rink to save his life.

It really comes down to the defense - the question is do you wait for the kids to develop and hopefully a couple of them become what you want/need and continue to burn the core's clock. Or do you actually sign someone or two other than Brandan Manning in the offseason for the back end.

On to Edmonton...nice little push here by the Hawks, but a lot of teams to climb over.
- DK002

It's more than just one guy and nice to finally have a PP that sees the Hawks threaten to score more often than their opponent...and has been succeeding.

Saw a stat that had the Hawks scoring at a 39% clip on the PP since maybe the first of the year? Something like that.

What's funny to me is posters talking about burning the core's clock as in plural. Last year it was Kane's time alone the team was wasting. Now I imagine it's been expanded to include Toews, even though as far as many here were concerned he should have been carpooling to the glue factory with Seabs.

Watched the Keith interview with Tappen and the way Keith takes about Seabrook. Thinking that asking Seabrook first also has some play with Keith as well as with how Seabrook thinks.

As many have said here the next 3 weeks are going to be interesting and pivotal for the future of this team. Hopefully the FO has plans for all contingencies - 7 & 2 stay, both go, 7 stays & 2 goes, and vice versa.
- Marlowe

Agree - definitely cannot underestimate influence of their tight connection, both on and off the ice.

Agree with your last point, for sure. However, we also watched them stink up the ice for several weeks in the wake of the Q firing. I don't think any of it was on purpose or tantrum throwing, but I do think emotions will and do have an effect on play, dollar value of contracts be damned. I look at Kane and his Sochi struggles in the wake of his grandfather dying. They are all human beings first, paid-to-produce assets second.

So, though I do think the ultimate reaction and change that resulted was a positive one, I still saw the emotional ripple effect in play. So far, with Keith as our only data point, the rumors have sparked renewed energy and effort. Hope that continues.
- pdx2ord

I do not disagree with your assessment. Totally on the JC transition. That was the wake up call and humbling of Core. But I will also argue, we saw the prolonged tantrum of Q as coach with 2 years of lackluster play and effort.

My comment was more on the day to day emotional swing.

I said this when Q was fired and to my eye test it appears to be playing out, but the hawks finally play hard and compete for 60 minutes a night on a consistent basis, which we did not see going back 2 or 3 years. As a fan, a Chicago Blue Collar Roots fan, this I respect, regardless of outcome. This is the source of my optimism.
Without this trait or characteristic, no team will ever win consistently.

Agree - definitely cannot underestimate influence of their tight connection, both on and off the ice.
- pdx2ord

IF anything, it gets them playing harder. Gets them off of the fence to decide if they want to be part of the solution. If so, both should continue to play better.

Watched the Keith interview with Tappen and the way Keith takes about Seabrook. Thinking that asking Seabrook first also has some play with Keith as well as with how Seabrook thinks.

As many have said here the next 3 weeks are going to be interesting and pivotal for the future of this team. Hopefully the FO has plans for all contingencies - 7 & 2 stay, both go, 7 stays & 2 goes, and vice versa.
- Marlowe

The media always has to have a subject to speculate about, especially around TDL and if it involves big name players.

The Hawks have an 'easy' schedule in February and the players look like they believe the season isn't over yet - exactly the opposite of last year when Berube and Forsberg were gracing the goal crease with their presence.

Doubt very much 2 or 7 or both are going anywhere in season. Earliest will be summer. Short sighted or not, emphasis is on winning now and taking a run at the playoffs.

It's more than just one guy and nice to finally have a PP that sees the Hawks threaten to score more often than their opponent...and has been succeeding.

Saw a stat that had the Hawks scoring at a 39% clip on the PP since maybe the first of the year? Something like that.

What's funny to me is posters talking about burning the core's clock as in plural. Last year it was Kane's time alone the team was wasting. Now I imagine it's been expanded to include Toews, even though as far as many here were concerned he should have been carpooling to the glue factory with Seabs.
- HawkintheD

"Frau Blucher!" Forgive the lack of an umlaut, I can't do that on my phone.

I do not disagree with your assessment. Totally on the JC transition. That was the wake up call and humbling of Core. But I will also argue, we saw the prolonged tantrum of Q as coach with 2 years of lackluster play and effort.

My comment was more on the day to day emotional swing.

I said this when Q was fired and to my eye test it appears to be playing out, but the hawks finally play hard and compete for 60 minutes a night on a consistent basis, which we did not see going back 2 or 3 years. As a fan, a Chicago Blue Collar Roots fan, this I respect, regardless of outcome. This is the source of my optimism.
Without this trait or characteristic, no team will ever win consistently.
- TrueGrit

"Frau Blucher!" Forgive the lack of an umlaut, I can't do that on my phone.
- I Am The Breadman

Watched the Keith interview with Tappen and the way Keith takes about Seabrook. Thinking that asking Seabrook first also has some play with Keith as well as with how Seabrook thinks.

As many have said here the next 3 weeks are going to be interesting and pivotal for the future of this team. Hopefully the FO has plans for all contingencies - 7 & 2 stay, both go, 7 stays & 2 goes, and vice versa.
- Marlowe

If both of these guys decide they are against a trade, then it is what it is. Now you have going into next year,your four and five D men or five and six.
If these guys somehow turn it around and make the right in the summer and take a serious run next year ultimately you could be trading for the same type of defenseman at the deadline next year. They have to get a top two defenseman over the summer either in free agency or by trade. I just hope they don’t do something stupid and trade away some of these young kids that are on the come For a couple of playoff games even though as a fan I would love to see them make the playoffs. If the right move is to be made fine otherwise just roll the dice and play a game of 52 card pickup with what you got for the rest of the season .
I have a little bit of feeling if that situation in Columbus goes really sour , And we are in the postseason come Feb 25th, I wouldn’t put it past these guys approachColumbus and offer couple of the young defenseman and take a shot at Panerin and hope they can re-sign him in the summer. He did say that he wanted to play around a big body of water. Well I think Lake Michigan constitutes a big body of water along with his buddy Patrick Kane who I think behind closed doors will have a lot to say moving forward .

[quote=HawkintheD]

Gotta love Cloris Leachman! Hahaha! Mel Brooks said he thought that meant glue in German, that's why it scared the horses. It doesn't mean glue, he found out later.

Gotta love Cloris Leachman! Hahaha! Mel Brooks said he thought that meant glue in German, that's why it scared the horses. It doesn't mean glue, he found out later.
- I Am The Breadman

Should have been Frau Kleben.

Should have been Frau Kleben.
- boilermaker100

Hahaha, it should. But the total inaccuracy makes it just as good. I think. Blucher rolls off the tongue.

I do not disagree with your assessment. Totally on the JC transition. That was the wake up call and humbling of Core. But I will also argue, we saw the prolonged tantrum of Q as coach with 2 years of lackluster play and effort.

My comment was more on the day to day emotional swing.

I said this when Q was fired and to my eye test it appears to be playing out, but the hawks finally play hard and compete for 60 minutes a night on a consistent basis, which we did not see going back 2 or 3 years. As a fan, a Chicago Blue Collar Roots fan, this I respect, regardless of outcome. This is the source of my optimism.
Without this trait or characteristic, no team will ever win consistently.
- TrueGrit

I do agree i like the effort from game to game. Maybe JC was pointing players out on video, cough cough core players, taking shifts off, the kids want the big payday so you know they're giving maximum effort. The team alone seems to be in better shape, how many times they would play a back to back and be dragging their asses by the 3rd period. No one likes change and when you've worked with someone for 10 years i can understand the core being in a funk because of it. It's nice now that i can eat instead of drink watching a Blackhawks game now.

the wild can gag on those contracts...absurd when they were given...parise is 34 with 7 years left...parise is all class and great competitor but he was in the right place and right time to get that deal

but the wild will never sniff a cup with those two...
- bogiedoc

Could you imagine if indeed we did sign one of them with that type of term and money. The female dogging would be insane I would have to stop reading here because I would think that my wife was posting here!