Here is the reality with professional athletes and contracts:

the great ones are underpaid in their youth relative to their accomplishments and performance and overpaid at the backend of their careers. thats the price of success and organizational loyalty; for the majority of star players this is how it will play out.

hockey and football are victimized more by this than baseball and basketball because of the intense physical nature of those two sports

toews, kane, seab etc were making 50% of their current salaries when they were performing at a high level and won cups. Kane is the only one of the 3 who has stayed and actually improved since getting his big contract.

i hope not...always appreciated her contributions and insights with the analytics.
- bogiedoc

More a jab at the pessimists and can't see other sides to arguments. Agree. I might not understand most of what she said or used, but that's because I'm behind the rest of the class. Still liked her opinions.

Seabrook hasn’t been great, but I don’t think he’s as bad as some people make him out to be. If Stan can maneuver through the cap while keeping Seabs on the team I’m ok with that.

I’m even more baffled about the desire to trade Keith. Sure, if he brings back a king’s ransom then deal him. Otherwise what’s the point? How does a 2nd round pick and a B level prospect make the team better? The Hawks can gain cap space other ways (ie expiring contracts and trading AA) so they don’t need to trade Keith. Plus, don’t we want guys like Keith around to help mentor the next wave of d-men?
- DarthKane

I'll add this one point, Seabrook's cap hit doesn't make the Hawks a SC contender. Worry about a couple years down the road.

I'll add this one point, Seabrook's cap hit doesn't make the Hawks a SC contender. Worry about a couple years down the road.
- vabeachbear

Agree, the Hawks will not be a cup contender during the term Seabrook has left on his contract. With the Hawks current prospects, a "from the foundation" rebuild will take at least 5 years before the Hawks contend for the cup. If Bowman gets cute and starts selling off futures to try to sneak into the playoffs then add additional years before the Hawks can contend again. The absolute worst thing the Hawks can do is start adding players over the age of 25 who command large contracts and term. If they move someone like AA then it has to be for prospects and or draft picks.

We keep talking about rebuild and the amount of time it will take for this team to be a true playoff threat. I cant answer with any certainty as to how long it will take for this team to be a cup contender again, but when you look at this team over the last two months, there is reason to be optimistic.

We have found out the Cat is for real. Doing what he has back to back years shows this kid can play as opposed to Schmaltz who had a nice year and then all of a sudden was irrelevant. Kane is Kane. Toews looks like he is rejuvenated and is back to his 70 point self. Those are three very good players you have to build around. Saad has improved and found his game. Cagguila and Strome have fit in well. Restacking is a lot easier when you are looking at acquiring depth as opposed to rebuilding up front.

On defense, the Hawks have some work to do, but we have learned that we have two good players in Murph and Joki. A nice middle pairing D-man acquired with the plethora of D in the system and we are a playoff team.

So my question is, why so gloom? Does the addition of a Panarin and a piece on D to stabilize the second pairing put us right back in the convo? Yeah, I think so!

Doesn't Colorado have Ottawa's #1 pick? Another team in the Central that is young and expecting to only get better.

Glad to see the Kings aren't tanking. 2 points for them tonight. They tied it in the last minute of regulation and won in OT.
- boilermaker100

King Henry gave up a terrible goal in the last minute. Almost looked like he was tanking the Rangers himself.

Doesn't Colorado have Ottawa's #1 pick? Another team in the Central that is young and expecting to only get better.
- kwolf68

Colorado is hurting for depth big time!

We keep talking about rebuild and the amount of time it will take for this team to be a true playoff threat. I cant answer with any certainty as to how long it will take for this team to be a cup contender again, but when you look at this team over the last two months, there is reason to be optimistic.

We have found out the Cat is for real. Doing what he has back to back years shows this kid can play as opposed to Schmaltz who had a nice year and then all of a sudden was irrelevant. Kane is Kane. Toews looks like he is rejuvenated and is back to his 70 point self. Those are three very good players you have to build around. Saad has improved and found his game. Cagguila and Strome have fit in well. Restacking is a lot easier when you are looking at acquiring depth as opposed to rebuilding up front.

On defense, the Hawks have some work to do, but we have learned that we have two good players in Murph and Joki. A nice middle pairing D-man acquired with the plethora of D in the system and we are a playoff team.

So my question is, why so gloom? Does the addition of a Panarin and a piece on D to stabilize the second pairing put us right back in the convo? Yeah, I think so!
- nickmo2699

This comment could apply to ANY team in the NHL. EVERY team has a few good, even great pieces. the difference in the Hawks and some other bottom feeding teams is these other teams have more flexibility because they don't have costly pieces constraining any potential movement the GM wishes to make.

The reason for the "doom and gloom" is because the window is slammed closed and whether go a soft rebuild or hard rebuild the fact is the Hawks have little forward depth that can score, a horrendous defensive core, possibly the worst in the NHL and huge question marks in net. Topping that off is a completely whacked salary structure where 5 guys are taking up 40% of the cap room, some of these guys no longer playing at a good rate. The team has been a bit better because Kane is putting up superman type play and the goalies occasionally steal a game the Hawks are badly outshot in.

Panarin is the dumbest move this team could make. Sure, add another bloated contract while not addressing the Hawks real need, finding a shutdown stud D-man, OR three.

I love the way Toews is playing, Kane is special, Strome, and DCat. A couple D-men look solid, if unspectacular and there is a good group of D prospects that give hope, but prospects are almost always wildcards. So there are "good things" afoot, but overall this team is a poster child for rebuilding.

This comment could apply to ANY team in the NHL. EVERY team has a few good, even great pieces. the difference in the Hawks and some other bottom feeding teams is these other teams have more flexibility because they don't have costly pieces constraining any potential movement the GM wishes to make.

The reason for the "doom and gloom" is because the window is slammed closed and whether go a soft rebuild or hard rebuild the fact is the Hawks have little forward depth that can score, a horrendous defensive core, possibly the worst in the NHL and huge question marks in net. Topping that off is a completely whacked salary structure where 5 guys are taking up 40% of the cap room, some of these guys no longer playing at a good rate. The team has been a bit better because Kane is putting up superman type play and the goalies occasionally steal a game the Hawks are badly outshot in.

Panarin is the dumbest move this team could make. Sure, add another bloated contract while not addressing the Hawks real need, finding a shutdown stud D-man, OR three.

I love the way Toews is playing, Kane is special, Strome, and DCat. A couple D-men look solid, if unspectacular and there is a good group of D prospects that give hope, but prospects are almost always wildcards. So there are "good things" afoot, but overall this team is a poster child for rebuilding.
- kwolf68

Yeah adding a 80+ point player to create a complete matchup nightmare up front is a dumb idea. The salary cap is continuing to climb and who exactly is out there that is a top pairing dman that we can add? Karlsson? He is a little better in his own end then Gus. You want to throw 9 mil at him?!?!

Panarin was an example btw.

We keep talking about rebuild and the amount of time it will take for this team to be a true playoff threat. I cant answer with any certainty as to how long it will take for this team to be a cup contender again, but when you look at this team over the last two months, there is reason to be optimistic.

We have found out the Cat is for real. Doing what he has back to back years shows this kid can play as opposed to Schmaltz who had a nice year and then all of a sudden was irrelevant. Kane is Kane. Toews looks like he is rejuvenated and is back to his 70 point self. Those are three very good players you have to build around. Saad has improved and found his game. Cagguila and Strome have fit in well. Restacking is a lot easier when you are looking at acquiring depth as opposed to rebuilding up front.

On defense, the Hawks have some work to do, but we have learned that we have two good players in Murph and Joki. A nice middle pairing D-man acquired with the plethora of D in the system and we are a playoff team.

So my question is, why so gloom? Does the addition of a Panarin and a piece on D to stabilize the second pairing put us right back in the convo? Yeah, I think so!
- nickmo2699

Say the Hawks were to trade for Panarin and Parayko. What do they have to give up to acquire them? Probably a young roster player(s), prospects and draft picks. So that means Bowman says he's all in and a rebuild be damned. So do Panarin and Parayko make the Hawks contenders? Do they address a very weak defense corps? Does it address goaltending? Does it give the Hawks depth at forward to compete against the big boys like Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Winnipeg and Nashville? Does it put the Hawks in a comfortable cap situation?

Yes ADB looks like a sniper, but he's not a main core guy like Toews, Kane or Hossa. ADB is a complimentary player, he doesn't make those around him better. Strome is OK so long as he has the wingers and like ADB he doesn't make those around him better. The team doesn't have a dominant top pairing defenseman. So while the Hawks do have some good looking young forwards they don't have anyone who can be the new Kane and Toews.

And to address how the Hawks have played the last two months we don't know how they'll play in 20 games from now when teams have scouted their new tendencies and plays. 20-30 games is not enough time to measure a team especially when deciding to add players to try to make a cup run.

I want the Hawks to contend quickly as much as any Hawk fan but not at the expense of the future. And to acquire any decent player means giving up on the future.

At what point do we revert back to zone defense? How many teams actually play man to man these days?

So apparently the thing about Seabrook was some BS.

"I haven’t been approached by anyone," Seabrook said Monday. "I don’t know where the reports are coming from.”

"I haven’t thought about it," Seabrook said of waiving his no-move clause. "I guess I’ll deal with that when that day comes. But my focus right now is to try to help this team get into the playoffs. That’s what I’m thinking about."

Say the Hawks were to trade for Panarin and Parayko. What do they have to give up to acquire them? Probably a young roster player(s), prospects and draft picks. So that means Bowman says he's all in and a rebuild be damned. So do Panarin and Parayko make the Hawks contenders? Do they address a very weak defense corps? Does it address goaltending? Does it give the Hawks depth at forward to compete against the big boys like Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Winnipeg and Nashville? Does it put the Hawks in a comfortable cap situation?

Yes ADB looks like a sniper, but he's not a main core guy like Toews, Kane or Hossa. ADB is a complimentary player, he doesn't make those around him better. Strome is OK so long as he has the wingers and like ADB he doesn't make those around him better. The team doesn't have a dominant top pairing defenseman. So while the Hawks do have some good looking young forwards they don't have anyone who can be the new Kane and Toews.

And to address how the Hawks have played the last two months we don't know how they'll play in 20 games from now when teams have scouted their new tendencies and plays. 20-30 games is not enough time to measure a team especially when deciding to add players to try to make a cup run.

I want the Hawks to contend quickly as much as any Hawk fan but not at the expense of the future. And to acquire any decent player means giving up on the future.
- paulr

I never said trade.....

I agree, dont sully the future to trade for players. Panarin is a UFA. No need to move any assets for him. Parayko has never been my cup of tea. I see big body with a heavy shot but not much else. I am not on board with trading away the future. But when you look at a team like Pittsburgh. They hit reset, developed the top two lines with a bigger veteran presence and than banked on their farm system to bring up depth. They won back to back cups. I can see the hawks doing the same. I believe Geno and Sid are older than 19 and 88, the hawks could do the same. Acquiring fat Phil would be the same as the Hawks adding Panarin.

Justin Schultz was a great move by Rutherford and he is a top 4 guy.

Im not saying it's easy but I dont think we are as far off as some say.

At what point do we revert back to zone defense? How many teams actually play man to man these days?
- Assman22

And is there another scheme that can help a couple of aging core players and a defensive challenged, but offensively gifted d-man?

Say the Hawks were to trade for Panarin and Parayko. What do they have to give up to acquire them? Probably a young roster player(s), prospects and draft picks. So that means Bowman says he's all in and a rebuild be damned. So do Panarin and Parayko make the Hawks contenders? Do they address a very weak defense corps? Does it address goaltending? Does it give the Hawks depth at forward to compete against the big boys like Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Winnipeg and Nashville? Does it put the Hawks in a comfortable cap situation?

Yes ADB looks like a sniper, but he's not a main core guy like Toews, Kane or Hossa. ADB is a complimentary player, he doesn't make those around him better. Strome is OK so long as he has the wingers and like ADB he doesn't make those around him better. The team doesn't have a dominant top pairing defenseman. So while the Hawks do have some good looking young forwards they don't have anyone who can be the new Kane and Toews.

And to address how the Hawks have played the last two months we don't know how they'll play in 20 games from now when teams have scouted their new tendencies and plays. 20-30 games is not enough time to measure a team especially when deciding to add players to try to make a cup run.

I want the Hawks to contend quickly as much as any Hawk fan but not at the expense of the future. And to acquire any decent player means giving up on the future.
- paulr

Well said.
They are not cup contenders at all.
What they are is a team in transition.
Sooner they realize the quicker the rebuild will take.
Hanging on to vets like Seabs, CC. Keith and others even though they are not producing as they should is honourable but may not be the best business decision. Not saying they can move the contracts but they should try and try hard! Floating in between sucks for everyone.

Wolfie and Paulie in basic agreement...nice. I had best agree with them.

One polite quibble with Wolfie... I am not as concerned about the cap. As both fellows point out, the Hawks just need a ton of prospects so a few can be home runs.

Agree, the Hawks will not be a cup contender during the term Seabrook has left on his contract. With the Hawks current prospects, a "from the foundation" rebuild will take at least 5 years before the Hawks contend for the cup. If Bowman gets cute and starts selling off futures to try to sneak into the playoffs then add additional years before the Hawks can contend again. The absolute worst thing the Hawks can do is start adding players over the age of 25 who command large contracts and term. If they move someone like AA then it has to be for prospects and or draft picks.
- paulr

This is how i feel as well, Bowman must be prudent with his decisions and how they affect future players and future cap implications.

And is there another scheme that can help a couple of aging core players and a defensive challenged, but offensively gifted d-man?
- CanOCorn

1-3-1 zone and active sticks would benefit the current defense group over man to man. Man works if you have speed, these guys don't overall. If they really want to get in the playoffs as they all keep saying, they have to adjust the defense and this is the only way right now imo.

1-3-1 zone and active sticks would benefit the current defense group over man to man. Man works if you have speed, these guys don't overall. If they really want to get in the playoffs as they all keep saying, they have to adjust the defense and this is the only way right now imo.
- Assman22

Man to man has to be very difficult if most of the league plays Zone - not many players are use to it and with all the shuffling of new players makes it especially difficult

Yeah adding a 80+ point player to create a complete matchup nightmare up front is a dumb idea. The salary cap is continuing to climb and who exactly is out there that is a top pairing dman that we can add? Karlsson? He is a little better in his own end then Gus. You want to throw 9 mil at him?!?!

Panarin was an example btw.
- nickmo2699

Hmmm - we seem to have heard that before - oh yeah - summer of 2014, when Kane and Toews signed their current deals.

Man to man has to be very difficult if most of the league plays Zone - not many players are use to it and with all the shuffling of new players makes it especially difficult
- glennjpawlak22

I have to disagree with you, when my kids played youth basketball, they had them play man to man, because it was easier to teach - just follow the player with the same colored wrist band. Now, if yo mean physically harder, then I agree with that comment, you have to be in much better pphysical shape to be able to skate with someone. But in terms of technique, man 2 man is much easier.

I have to disagree with you, when my kids played youth basketball, they had them play man to man, because it was easier to teach - just follow the player with the same colored wrist band. Now, if yo mean physically harder, then I agree with that comment, you have to be in much better pphysical shape to be able to skate with someone. But in terms of technique, man 2 man is much easier.
- powerenforcer

But it's much harder (I think) on ice to stop / start / stay with your opponent than it is on hardwood.

Also - subbing on the fly can disrupt the man-to-man defense.

And - switching is easier in the 50' wide basketball court than the 85' wide hockey rink with a lot of below-the-goal play.

At what point do we revert back to zone defense? How many teams actually play man to man these days?
- Assman22

Give it time, it's still not pretty but it took players a year or years to learn zone defense. They do have some really bad games defensively which are decreasing. Last 20 games 3.55 GA per game, 1st 18 games with JC 3.77 GA.

But it's much harder (I think) on ice to stop / start / stay with your opponent than it is on hardwood.

Also - subbing on the fly can disrupt the man-to-man defense.

And - switching is easier in the 50' wide basketball court than the 85' wide hockey rink with a lot of below-the-goal play.
- StLBravesFan

But the key is to stay between the man you're covering and the goalie.

I also like how the dmen tie up the forwards so it's harder to run over the goalie and get extra stick wacks or even able to deflect the puck.