Bottom line it becomes a business decision.
Player salary no longer justifying the player contributions = issue.
Never easy when dealing with players who brought so much in the past.
To move forward they will need to move on from some of these contracts.
Will be interesting but needs to be done one way or another.
- Hawkster

But it’s not a business decision. For better or (mostly) worse, NMC means it’s not up to the team anymore.

Seabrook comments on turning down the NMC:

It's his right to resist waiving. Period. On one hand I am fine with him staying, out of "perceived loyalty" to the Hawks and their fans and perhaps a "desire" to help see this team back to the mix. However, if Bowman said, "hey Seabs, moving your deal is something we need to do for the long term future of the Hawks" and Seabrook ignored that call, then I am not happy with that. But, STILL his right. If nothing else has been learned Bowman absolutely can NOT give out any term + cash + NMC/NTCs deals anymore. If a guy wants the leverage to hold the Hawks hostage by negotiating a NTC into his deal, then he surrenders term and or overall cap hit. Bowman, in the most clueless of fashions, gave Seabrook the entire deck of cards. Hope we don't see stupid poop like this again, but part of me wonders especially considering Bowman handed out NTCs to bench veteran depth players this off-season. I just don't get it, but it's a huge reason why the Hawks are in the quandary they are in. This is absolutely on Bowman's desk. Now he gets to lay in the bed he himself made.

Part of me also wonders if Seabrook simply doesn't want the challenge of going to a playoff team and being "that cog" in the wheel. Maybe he knows he can't produce the way he once did, the demands and rigors would be too taxing and instead of being further exposed during a heated Cup chase, which ultimately may find him failing he's just happy to skate 18 minutes a night -with a team he is comfortable with with diminished expectations, thus lower pressure/scrutiny, not to mention a hell of a lot of good will built up over the years- before heading back home to his family in late april. I also wonder how hot the fire still burns for Keith and Seabrook. Toews has rebounded like a beast this year, but he's also much younger than 2 and 7.
- kwolf68

If all things were equal, I'm not sure how many guys Seabrook is beating out for a 3rd pair spot on ANY NHL team this year.....he's not an idiot, he knows where his game is at. Why would he want to leave the comfort of Chicago to go prove himself when he might not have the ability to beat out his competition for playing time??

TT was a solid player for the Hawks but I think JJ noted that he had heard there were some issues with TT not having the off ice training focus to get stronger. Not verified but I do recall that being mentioned. He had a great 2015 playoff for the role he was in and then seemed to not be a big factor after that.

He has been great in Carolina!
- nickmo2699

JJ made up allot of things and I know for a fact he never verified rumours he was given. Believe half of what JJ says and be skeptical of the other half.

Well they are 3 points out of a WildCard. I wouldn't bet on them, but it's not over yet. TT is not the difference, but he REDUCES the margin between not being in the playoffs and being in them. How people can just cast aside a guy like this as a "nothing much loss" is astounding, especially considering the fringe players we are using in our bottom 6. TT is not just a "point producer", he's a good player and good in all zones as well. he had very solid defensive instincts when in Chicago. I could care less that he isn't a brute on the ice, he helps put pucks into opponent nets.
- kwolf68

It's turned now, but at one point the PK had more goals for than goals against with him on the ice. He's tied for 3rd in the league in SHP.

I wasn't suggesting that at all. I was just refuting the other dude's take that the Hawks never lost anything of value while trying to salvage cap space.
- BINGO!

I agree they did.

Some put it in the Esposito to Boston bucket. Here is one reporters version of the worst 15 Hawks trades, Note none are TT. https://www.thesportster....khawks-history/1/?v=6&n=f

I know D sucks but does anyone have the advanced metrics of high danger chances, Goals against prior to Murphy and Dahlstrom being our 2nd pair and after Murphy and Dahlstrom in our lineup?

It was mentioned that we only have given up less than 3 goals twice in the last 12 games though...
- Popsghostly

HawkintheD isn't even here to defend himself from that one.

But it’s not a business decision. For better or (mostly) worse, NMC means it’s not up to the team anymore.
- Ogilthorpe2

Two ways to look at it I guess.

Mngt can make life difficult for the player and force a move but not sure thats how you want to treat future HOF.

Indeed they did paint themselves in a corner.

What to do

Bottom line it becomes a business decision.
Player salary no longer justifying the player contributions = issue.
Never easy when dealing with players who brought so much in the past.
To move forward they will need to move on from some of these contracts.
Will be interesting but needs to be done one way or another.
- Hawkster

Unfortunately it's not in their hands at this point. Just a liiiiiiittle too much loyalty shown to some of these guys.

If all things were equal, I'm not sure how many guys Seabrook is beating out for a 3rd pair spot on ANY NHL team this year.....
- EnzoD

Yep, good point. This thing that is confounding is if bowman asked him to waive then Bowman thinks Seabrook has some sort of value.

Are Bowman and his talent evaluators genuinely watching Seabrook thinking he is movable? Has a team reached out about Seabrook? I can't imagine the answer to either of these questions is YES, so why then even go through the dog and pony show of asking him to waive?

Hell, it's probably some marketing stunt. Seabrook asked to wave, he says no makes him -on the surface- look like he'd rather lose with the Hawks than win with something else. He retains folk legend status, McDonough sells Seabrook bobble heads the night the Hawks are eliminated from post season.

HawkintheD isn't even here to defend himself from that one.
- I Am The Breadman

D is 4'8", how could he possibly defend himself even if he were here?

D is 4'8", how could he possibly defend himself even if he were here?
- paulr

I thought we weren't listing heights anymore ....

I'm not sure, sit on some phone books and type?

I agree they did.

Some put it in the Esposito to Boston bucket. Here is one reporters version of the worst 15 Hawks trades, Note none are TT. https://www.thesportster....khawks-history/1/?v=6&n=f
- riozzo

True enough.

Though in fairness that was written in January 2017 and TT had only played 40 games in Carolina at that point.

True enough.

Though in fairness that was written in January 2017 and TT had only played 40 games in Carolina at that point.
- BINGO!

Details details details...

I thought we weren't listing heights anymore ....

I'm not sure, sit on some phone books and type?
- I Am The Breadman

Can you still get a phonebook?

Can you still get a phonebook?
- paulr

Stocked up on them. I think you can though.

Yep, good point. This thing that is confounding is if bowman asked him to waive then Bowman thinks Seabrook has some sort of value.

Are Bowman and his talent evaluators genuinely watching Seabrook thinking he is movable? Has a team reached out about Seabrook? I can't imagine the answer to either of these questions is YES, so why then even go through the dog and pony show of asking him to waive?

Hell, it's probably some marketing stunt. Seabrook asked to wave, he says no makes him -on the surface- look like he'd rather lose with the Hawks than win with something else. He retains folk legend status, McDonough sells Seabrook bobble heads the night the Hawks are eliminated from post season.
- kwolf68

That's the one thing that confuses me too. Did somebody actually inquire about Seabrook or is this just so that Bowman can go to everyone and say "Well, we tried, but he just loves being a hawk so damn much!"

That Kings team was actually good at hockey, and had underperformed for the regular season. Sorry, but this Hawk team doesn’t beat anyone of the top 6 Western teams in a 7 game series.
- scottak

Was is simply underperforming — maybe thinkingbthey could turn it on in the playoffs when they needed to— or were there any injuries throughout the year that might have kept them from performing as they should have through the regular season.

>>Would you trade Duncan Keith?<<

yes..i would listen to all offers

GM's responsibility is to to listen and evaluate all offers all the time

doesn't mean I should or I want to trade him...but I am listening...

if a great deal come along and keith is say's yes...He is moved..

not that complicated
- bogiedoc

Totally agree.

Stan has gotten a lot of criticism for trades and contracts. I agree some of this is warranted.

But to not at least listen to any offers that could potentially help the hawks would be as an egregious failure as anything he’s been accused of to date.

Look, l love my grandfather, but I don’t want him centering my line or defending my blue line.

According to Charting Hockey, Cam Ward is 5th from the bottom in Goals Saved Above Expectation. He’s ahead of only Talbot, Allen, Dubnyk and Craig Anderson.

Top 5 are Gibson, Lehner & Frederik Anderson, Greiss & Howard.

CC is 10 spots above Ward.


Delia ranks 7th among backups, and is the only Blackhawk goalie with a positive result.
- scottak

In Ward’s defense, if Tony O had this defensive team in front of him him in his rookie season, we would be calling him Tony today.

Interesting thing from Micah McCurdy...

The Hawks have been dramatically worse defensively when Patrick Kane is on the ice.





Meanwhile the dude is putting up monster numbers yet again. I wonder how much his scoring actually offsets the defensive play. Opponents are certainly getting a lot more offensive chances on Kane's side of the ice when he's out there.

That Kings team was actually good at hockey, and had underperformed for the regular season. Sorry, but this Hawk team doesn’t beat anyone of the top 6 Western teams in a 7 game series.
- scottak

With the caveat that this team isn't making the playoffs, I would give them a punchers change against both teams that finish third in either division. They also could beat Nashville. Would they? Probably not but Nashville is a one line team as currently constructed.

There have probably been just as many busts in the Top 10 picks of most draft years as there have been "elite" difference-maker players that were picked mid first round and later (see previous posters for proof).

If we can shed some dead weight in the next few weeks via trade, take a great deal for a core defender if it comes up, and mix things up a little bit further who knows what could happen. Most teams in the upper echelon in the league are an injury, suspension, or rough streak away from sliding a bit in in their playoff positions, and we all know it will happen to some teams this year as with every year.

That being said if all goes well - let the young guys get the experience points that may come along with going from being "written off" to a possible contender for a playoff spot in their first year (or early in their career). If they happen to make the playoffs then what a story, right? We could all agree on that...

I am realistic and understand the odds are strongly against them. There are many teams to leap frog, but anything can happen. And that glimmer of hope is what keeps me watching every night (even though I know I will still watch regardless and have been).

What's wrong with being hopeful...?

With the caveat that this team isn't making the playoffs, I would give them a punchers change against both teams that finish third in either division. They also could beat Nashville. Would they? Probably not but Nashville is a one line team as currently constructed.
- Elbows15

Yeah, Nashville isn't the juggernaut a lot of people think they are. Good D, some good offense, but they don't have great depth and Laviolette is probably starting to get a bit stale after 5 years.

God only knows how long Rinne can keep it together too.

But it’s not a business decision. For better or (mostly) worse, NMC means it’s not up to the team anymore.
- Ogilthorpe2

Handing out NMC’s like candy is a bad business decision!

Interesting thing from Micah McCurdy...

The Hawks have been dramatically worse defensively when Patrick Kane is on the ice.





Meanwhile the dude is putting up monster numbers yet again. I wonder how much his scoring actually offsets the defensive play. Opponents are certainly getting a lot more offensive chances on Kane's side of the ice when he's out there.
- BINGO!

Thanks tip.