Kings trade Muzzin and win 2 in a row? Im sure their fans are saying the same thing. All these hockey players are playing for their future contract. There is no tanking
- BetweenTheDots

It's true, because tanking isn't a good strategy. Some teams have finished near the bottom for years and failed to build much of anything. Other have been in the playoffs or near them for years and continue to be strong. Good drafting over tanking every time.

I don't know how to tank without doing something crazy.

How do you make sure you end up in the top 5? Finish dead last. Then you're guaranteed 4th overall or better.
- ObeseOprah

Right, so as a team you can't "try" to finish last. It is a horrible culmination of a bad year, not something that you can strive for. As fans, I guess you can hope they finish last and get in the top five, but you can't fault the organization for not tanking.

The whole "foolishly playing for pride" thing (forgive me, I don't remember if you said that or not) is a waste of breath. You are not going to find any players or coaches (expect maybe in the NBA, but I really don't follow that at all) in a professional organization that will willingly try to lose to get a better draft position.

Right, so as a team you can't "try" to finish last. It is a horrible culmination of a bad year, not something that you can strive for. As fans, I guess you can hope they finish last and get in the top five, but you can't fault the organization for not tanking.

The whole "foolishly playing for pride" thing (forgive me, I don't remember if you said that or not) is a waste of breath. You are not going to find any players or coaches (expect maybe in the NBA, but I really don't follow that at all) in a professional organization that will willingly try to lose to get a better draft position.
- Chunk

Don't have to finish last - just in the bottom four.

Second this, the idiotic winning at the end of the year cost them a couple spots. We could've had Zadina.

Are we going to miss out on one of the five top forwards because we like sniffing the playoff bubble?
- ObeseOprah

Can we wait a few years to see how Boqvist, Zadina, and Tkachuck and other picks pan out?

Zadina has 22 points in 38 games in the AHL and is a minus 14.

Problem is Gus is the only D we have that is a true weapon on the PP. Gus's play has been one of the factors in this improved PP. The return would have to be really good. I for one would not trade him.
- z1990z

At least a 1st + ..

If Hartman gets you a 1st + Edj, I'm sure Gus will fetch far more.

Can we wait a few years to see how Boqvist, Zadina, and Tkachuck and other picks pan out?

Zadina has 22 points in 38 games in the AHL and is a minus 14.
- -Doh-

Sure they can wait. But what is left of 19/88 in year three?

And who are the next 19/88, and where do they come from?

Sure they can wait. But what is left of 19/88 in year three?
- Return of the Roar

True, but in reality the Blackhawks have to build this team as though those 2 will be only able to contribute half their point totals. Timing sucks but if you try to band aid something together than this restructure can take so much longer

I am going to say it. It's time for the white flag. I've enjoyed this winning streak but this current team is not playoff caliber. I'll lose my mind if we sneak into the playoffs, get blown out in the first round and lose our chance at a top draft pick. Time to dump salaries, free up spots and look toward a rebuild.

True, but in reality the Blackhawks have to build this team as though those 2 will be only able to contribute half their point totals. Timing sucks but if you try to band aid something together than this restructure can take so much longer
- BetweenTheDots

Exactly.

So that feeds the argument for the long view approach - which means they need better draft picks.

Name one young elite forward who has reached UFA? Oh wait, that's right nobody is a UFA until they're 27 or older because of RFA rules.

Mark Stone and Matt Duchene are both approaching the end of their prime. Are we going to overpay and overterm them instead of getting a top draft pick?

Panarin is genuinely elite, but he's going to command $10M+.

The next year has Taylor Hall, who will be 28. Besides him there's not much at UFA.

The next year has Landeskog and Gallagher, but no elite under 30 guys.

What team is going to trade the Hawks an elite forward? Winners are build through the draft. You can try to be the Rangers and buy your talent, but you won't win jack.
- ObeseOprah

I disagree. These players have 5+ more years in their Prime.
Top Tier - Stone 26, Duchene 27, Panarin 26, Eberle 28
Next Tier - Karlsson 25, Hayes 26, Nyqvist 28, Johanssen 27

At least a 1st + ..

If Hartman gets you a 1st + Edj, I'm sure Gus will fetch far more.
- RedRevenge

It comes down to Stan. If he thinks Boqvist and Beaudin are the real deal, maybe he feels comfortable moving Gus.

The Hawks are not going full rebuild. They aren't doing a fire sale for picks and prospects while desperately hoping to win the draft lottery. That would not make sense when you still have Kane/Toews still in those prime years.

I think the Hawks have been very clear that they his more of a retool. They are not as far away from being truly competitive as some people like to female dog about. They have work to do and they can make moves to improve the team. If they want to start selling everything and tanking, it will be a long long haul, but they aren't there yet. Not with the guys they still have.

Don't have to finish last - just in the bottom four.
- Return of the Roar

Sure... my argument remains the same.

Boqvist nearly made the team this year despite everyone agreeing he should develop (including him). The kid is too talented to not be given an opportunity. The only argument I could see against him is his physical size.
- ObeseOprah

Boqvist did not nearly make the team last year. We could guess several reasons why he got in as many games, but i think mainly they wanted to see him play against tougher better competition to 1) allow him to get a feel for the professional level of competition in relation to his own skill and understanding, and 2). See how quick a study and how successful in adjusting and working on parts of the defensive game.

There is no way a prospect is being rushed. Too many others around to employ. Now clearly with one weak defender in Gus ....
They would not carry Boqvist if he has major weaknesses. Cmon' you know that

I am going to say it. It's time for the white flag. I've enjoyed this winning streak but this current team is not playoff caliber. I'll lose my mind if we sneak into the playoffs, get blown out in the first round and lose our chance at a top draft pick. Time to dump salaries, free up spots and look toward a rebuild.
- hankscorpio

Dump salaries for what? To whom? all of our big salaries have NMC's. It's nice to try and think its that simple, but the reality is much different.

Not to mention, while they haven't outright said it, Keith and Seabs haven't sounded all that inclined to waive their clauses.

The Hawks are not going full rebuild. They aren't doing a fire sale for picks and prospects while desperately hoping to win the draft lottery. That would not make sense when you still have Kane/Toews still in those prime years.

I think the Hawks have been very clear that they his more of a retool. They are not as far away from being truly competitive as some people like to female dog about. They have work to do and they can make moves to improve the team. If they want to start selling everything and tanking, it will be a long long haul, but they aren't there yet. Not with the guys they still have.
- breadbag

StanBo has failed miserably in his recent attempts at a retool. He is the wrong GM for that job. Also, you need to have assets for a retool. Hawks have no assets because StanBo already traded them away in his prior attempts.

Exactly.

So that feeds the argument for the long view approach - which means they need better draft picks.
- Return of the Roar

Actually if you follow what the Cubs did, you need more draft picks. They figured out the % chance of a pick becoming a pro player was not in their favor, so they kept trading for other teams prospects and many of them, since you can't trade draft picks in baseball, and that's how they built that team

The Hawks are not going full rebuild. They aren't doing a fire sale for picks and prospects while desperately hoping to win the draft lottery. That would not make sense when you still have Kane/Toews still in those prime years.

I think the Hawks have been very clear that they his more of a retool. They are not as far away from being truly competitive as some people like to female dog about. They have work to do and they can make moves to improve the team. If they want to start selling everything and tanking, it will be a long long haul, but they aren't there yet. Not with the guys they still have.
- breadbag

Also true - a shorter term view can also be pursued IF the right pieces can be acquired.

So, what do they REALLY need?

How do they get those pieces?

What do they have to give up to get them?

If the could get Mark Stone as the big piece to play with 19/88, a guy like Tomas Nosek from Vegas to play with 12/17, a Riley Sheahan to play with 20/91, make Kahun Hayden and Kampf the fourth line, and find one decent D guy....

That would be a much better team.

Btw the Hawks giving up only 27 shots vs the Wild and 31 vs Oil, not bad
- BetweenTheDots

Also good, I didn't know that. Thanks.

StanBo has failed miserably in his recent attempts at a retool. He is the wrong GM for that job. Also, you need to have assets for a retool. Hawks have no assets because StanBo already traded them away in his prior attempts.
- hankscorpio

While I am no real fan of Stan, he is working in a completely different space than he was before. He is no longer trying to squeeze out another cup by trying to find those 1-2 pieces needed. They are building the team from a standpoint of lower current expectations. I think his last three moves have really strong, and if he keeps that up, I think we are on a much better trajectory.

Murphy is nice, but he’s not a game changer. He plays a totally different game, but he slots in similar to JO, a real solid contributor, but not a game changer.

That said, JO was surrounded by a HOFers, a boarderline HOFer, and one of the grittiest warriors I’ve seen play.

I believe this is where the Hawk D will be in 2 years:

??? - Jokiharju
??? - Murphy
Keith - ???
Seabrook

The key is either adding from the outside, or having 2-3 of the youngsters in the system work out. That D could become one of a SC contender.

Is CC done for the year? Why not LTIR him. Take that space and eat a bad expiring contract from another team for a decent pick.

It a sad day when you quit on your favorite team, under the guise it for the best long term .Tomorrow is not guaranteed folks , never will be . I am cheering for this team till the last shovel of dirt is thrown on the casket , really why not wait till the math nerds say their done . Then you let the balls fall were they will ,with the knowledge your team played hard to the end . I think the Hockey Gods like that stuff ,and they are real , just ask Don Cherry and the Canadian Jr. team . Nothing better then going into the playoffs as a huge underdog ,play with no pressure and tell all the so called experts to shove it . These old guys (their still kids in my 50 plus mind ) gave us some much over the years , we owe them a some respect and support down stretch . GO HAWKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- oldduffman

Amen, Duffy.

I also think it has to do with his natural position being center, and his instinct is to cover for guys not doing their job. I'd like to see him center Kahun and Kampf on a fourth line for a string of games.
- Return of the Roar

I think that would something worth trying, they could actually be effective
especially if Hayden can play that role. Maybe even Perlini instead of Kampf.

I like you think he's trying to do to much in the Dzone. His head is always
on a swivel when playing D.

Also true - a shorter term view can also be pursued IF the right pieces can be acquired.

So, what do they REALLY need?

How do they get those pieces?

What do they have to give up to get them?
- Return of the Roar

That is up to Stan or whomever is GM to manage. Some teams have done a great job of restocking via trade, change of coach, drafting. Wasn't long again that Washington was trending down and having their own struggles. Pittsburgh is always wheeling and dealing. San Jose has been competitive for a long long time. Only drafted 9th a couple times in the last 12 years.

I just don't see any quick fix by tanking. That is the long term, hope for 5-7 years from now. I don't think that is the game plan for the Hawks. When they deal they are trading guys for younger players that are close to NHL ready or NHL ready.

I look back at the recent top 3 picks....who was the last one to actually win a cup. I think it was Seguin taking #2 about 9 years ago. The last 1st overall pick to get to that level was Kane. Maybe the Hawks will have to go full rebuild, but I think they will keep trying to get what they can out of 88/19 and keep adding other good young players, like Strome, Murphy, etc..