Sully is botching things. Plain and simple. He caught lightning in a bottle the first season. He lucked his way to the second cup. His ego is getting the best of him and he’s falling into the same traps that average coaches fall into because he’s really just an average to slightly above average coach.

Sully is botching things. Plain and simple. He caught lightning in a bottle the first season. He lucked his way to the second cup. His ego is getting the best of him and he’s falling into the same traps that average coaches fall into because he’s really just an average to slightly above average coach.
- j.boyd919

Sadly, this is where I am at currently...I'm seeing him make the same personnel mistakes he's been making that had been covered up by some players playing well beyond their expectations.

As someone said above, if this team limps into the playoffs or doesn't make I think/hope the brass looks at him with the same glare he gives the young guys who've made mistakes.

F them both and their frail heads and confidence. Man up, grab your nut sacks and play.

I liked what Sheahan brought to the ice and wished he'd been used more appropriately but off it he can fly to F.
- MattStrat

I don't really agree with this comment. There is always talk about how hockey players are so robotic in interviews and give cliche answers and how its tired and boring... but when they do show a bit of personality or emotion, it's like... "hey. not that emotion." Personally I like to see these types of interviews because I believe GMs and coaches can learn from them. Almost like a were these players mismanaged? If so, how can we avoid that in the future if we are the ones acquiring them? etc.

But again, it's essentially Shero/Bylsma all over again with the "they go with their guys for whatever reason."

I don't really agree with this comment. There is always talk about how hockey players are so robotic in interviews and give cliche answers and how its tired and boring... but when they do show a bit of personality or emotion, it's like... "hey. not that emotion." Personally I like to see these types of interviews because I believe GMs and coaches can learn from them. Almost like a were these players mismanaged? If so, how can we avoid that in the future if we are the ones acquiring them? etc.

But again, it's essentially Shero/Bylsma all over again with the "they go with their guys for whatever reason."
- j.boyd919

Yeah I knew I was in the wrong saying it in the first place haha

I don't really agree with this comment. There is always talk about how hockey players are so robotic in interviews and give cliche answers and how its tired and boring... but when they do show a bit of personality or emotion, it's like... "hey. not that emotion." Personally I like to see these types of interviews because I believe GMs and coaches can learn from them. Almost like a were these players mismanaged? If so, how can we avoid that in the future if we are the ones acquiring them? etc.

But again, it's essentially Shero/Bylsma all over again with the "they go with their guys for whatever reason."
- j.boyd919

Yeah I feel its getting like that too.

GMJR did however move out older guys for younger guys, so they might not be as afraid of youth as some here think.

Yeah I feel its getting like that too.

GMJR did however move out older guys for younger guys, so they might not be as afraid of youth as some here think.
- MattStrat

I don’t think they’re afraid of younger guys. I think they have their go to guys and they have a way that new players should play. And that way is often trying to fit a square peg in a round hole instead of playing players to their strengths.

Sully is botching things. Plain and simple. He caught lightning in a bottle the first season. He lucked his way to the second cup. His ego is getting the best of him and he’s falling into the same traps that average coaches fall into because he’s really just an average to slightly above average coach.
- j.boyd919

We had so much success his first two years that we've all kind of forgotten that Sullivan was a massive failure as a coach before coming to Pittsburgh. I'm not saying he's necessarily bad, and I'd say he's for sure not the coach he was in Boston, but I think the past two seasons have proven that he's far from the elite coach we thought he was.

Really thing that gets me about Sullivan the most is the complete 180 he did from running a meritocracy and giving guys shots when he first got promoted to being a classic "he's my guy and that's it" hockey coach. Having a guy willing to come in and take PT away from guys who weren't working and take flyers on WBS guys was so refreshing.

Sully wants to find an identity, but he also seems to be forcing an identity that doesn’t fit this team. This is where Bylsma ultimately failed. Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Sully wants to find an identity, but he also seems to be forcing an identity that doesn’t fit this team. This is where Bylsma ultimately failed. Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
- Rinosaur

^^this.

I don’t think they’re afraid of younger guys. I think they have their go to guys and they have a way that new players should play. And that way is often trying to fit a square peg in a round hole instead of playing players to their strengths.
- j.boyd919

I agree. Is there any coach in the league not like this to a degree?

I agree. Is there any coach in the league not like this to a degree?
- MattStrat

Probably not. I can’t think of any real progressive coaches.

We had so much success his first two years that we've all kind of forgotten that Sullivan was a massive failure as a coach before coming to Pittsburgh. I'm not saying he's necessarily bad, and I'd say he's for sure not the coach he was in Boston, but I think the past two seasons have proven that he's far from the elite coach we thought he was.

Really thing that gets me about Sullivan the most is the complete 180 he did from running a meritocracy and giving guys shots when he first got promoted to being a classic "he's my guy and that's it" hockey coach. Having a guy willing to come in and take PT away from guys who weren't working and take flyers on WBS guys was so refreshing.
- Victoro311

Part of that might be just how thin it is down there. Wilson and ZAR came up and stayed this year. Teddy is sticking so far.

Agreed re WBS being a bit thin, but that's what happens when you keep trading picks and prospects for vets...I mean think of it this way for Brass (I recall someone posting this recently) they gave up 3 or 4 picks, top goalie prospect, Cole, Reaves (who was worth another pick and Sundqvist)...that right there is a 4C (or comparable), vet D (may not have been able to keep), and at least 4 picks who would've at least added bodies in WBS.

I'm not in favor of a lot of the moves they've been making (aside from the recent McCann/Bjug trade) because I haven't seen much in terms of quality coming back in exchange for the quantity sent out.

I honestly don't get the constant criticism of Sullivan. They won back to back cups and lost in the second round to the eventual cup champs. This year they are struggling a bit but they are missing Malkin and Schultz and don't have much depth to speak of.

Yes, the Pens seem to suck with developing some young guys but guys like Guentzel, Rust and Simon have really come into their own.

Lots of complaints about JJ and and lines but this is the time you need to experiment and see if something can click. The Pens aren't going to beat everyone on talent alone anymore so all options need to be explored.

I honestly don't get the constant criticism of Sullivan. They won back to back cups and lost in the second round to the eventual cup champs. This year they are struggling a bit but they are missing Malkin and Schultz and don't have much depth to speak of.

Yes, the Pens seem to suck with developing some young guys but guys like Guentzel, Rust and Simon have really come into their own.

Lots of complaints about JJ and and lines but this is the time you need to experiment and see if something can click. The Pens aren't going to beat everyone on talent alone anymore so all options need to be explored.
- MacPatty

(Most)People are thoroughly explaining why they're criticizing him.

My criticism isn't of what he DID, it's of what he is going to do as a result of his personnel decisions. He won 2 cups, no question. Last year the team made it to the 2nd round.

What I'm commenting on is that success will not be sustainable if he continues to play the Cullen's (not per se playing poorly) over giving Teddy the 4th line job, or continuing to ice JJ over Riikola or JP when Schultz comes back...

My criticism isn't of what he DID, it's of what he is going to do as a result of his personnel decisions. He won 2 cups, no question. Last year the team made it to the 2nd round.

What I'm commenting on is that success will not be sustainable if he continues to play the Cullen's (not per se playing poorly) over giving Teddy the 4th line job, or continuing to ice JJ over Riikola or JP when Schultz comes back...
- iworkatinitech

The usage of JJ and the fact he hasnt been scratched one single f'n time this year is worthy of criticism alone.

(Most)People are thoroughly explaining why they're criticizing him.
- MattStrat

Lol right? Hahahaha How do you not get it when people type it out exactly. Hahaha it’s okay to respect and understand that they won back to back cups with him. It’s also okay to analyze why they are going wrong in what they are doing now. I don’t get why people don’t understand that.

The Pens are 4 points out of first in their division and frankly, they just need to be better than the 8th seed to be in a good position to make another run at the cup.

Malkin and Schultz are going to get healthy. I think JR is still going to make another move or two to improve the roster.

I think Sullivan is one of the top 5 coaches in the league, even if he will never get credit for it.

My criticism isn't of what he DID, it's of what he is going to do as a result of his personnel decisions. He won 2 cups, no question. Last year the team made it to the 2nd round.

What I'm commenting on is that success will not be sustainable if he continues to play the Cullen's (not per se playing poorly) over giving Teddy the 4th line job, or continuing to ice JJ over Riikola or JP when Schultz comes back...
- iworkatinitech

Exactly. No one is questioned what he did during those two cups. The results are there and you can easily analyze both cup runs. Then you can also analyze the road they went down last year and where they’ve got this year and see a common trend. It’s actually pretty simple.

The Pens are 4 points out of first in their division and frankly, they just need to be better than the 8th seed to be in a good position to make another run at the cup.

Malkin and Schultz are going to get healthy. I think JR is still going to make another move or two to improve the roster.

I think Sullivan is one of the top 5 coaches in the league, even if he will never get credit for it.
- MacPatty

I mean once you get past the top two coaches its all kind of an amalgam of similarly talented guys before you get to a huge drop off and get to the Carlyle's and Capuano's of the world.

(Most)People are thoroughly explaining why they're criticizing him.
- MattStrat

Maybe I should have phrased it differently. I think the criticisms of Sullivan are short sighted. He has a roster of players he has to try and win with. Some of them are locked into bad contracts for many more years, you know who.

Honestly, the Pens D sucks outside of the top pairing. They have a few months to figure out their ideal makeup for the playoffs. If they lose a few games and learn a few lessons now they will be better off for the playoffs.

The Pens are 4 points out of first in their division and frankly, they just need to be better than the 8th seed to be in a good position to make another run at the cup.

Malkin and Schultz are going to get healthy. I think JR is still going to make another move or two to improve the roster.

I think Sullivan is one of the top 5 coaches in the league, even if he will never get credit for it.
- MacPatty

I still believe in this team, no question. They just have to make some adjustments and tighten up. I didnt get a real sense of urgency vs the Canes that I like to see, yet they had the chances to win it. Things arnt that dire for them yet. I expect .500ish hockey for a few more weeks yet.

Maybe I should have phrased it differently. I think the criticisms of Sullivan are short sighted. He has a roster of players he has to try and win with. Some of them are locked into bad contracts for many more years, you know who.

Honestly, the Pens D sucks outside of the top pairing. They have a few months to figure out their ideal makeup for the playoffs. If they lose a few games and learn a few lessons now they will be better off for the playoffs.
- MacPatty

To my eyes, its not just the pairings though, though outside top 2 leave alot to be desired most nights. The forwards arnt helping out as much as they should a lot of nights.

Exactly. No one is questioned what he did during those two cups. The results are there and you can easily analyze both cup runs. Then you can also analyze the road they went down last year and where they’ve got this year and see a common trend. It’s actually pretty simple.
- j.boyd919

It sucked that they lost to the Caps last year but I thought they played pretty darn good and lost the goaltending battle.

It is frustrating to watch at times this year but sometimes it is good to go through the struggles early.