Trevor Shackles: Thursday Think Tank: Melnyk The Salesman Thoughts on Melnyk's statement, trade talks, and the game last night

Hope the downtown development forces Eugene out at this point.

Very impressed with Chabot. The kid can play....He's the best young D man by a country mile. And...he's Canadian

Melnyk sounds like he has a very solid plan in place. I remember him telling the fans he wasn't going anywhere not too long ago. I think that is great news. He has the blueprint for how to rebuild. Exciting times ahead for Sens fans.

Melnyk sounds like he has a very solid plan in place. I remember him telling the fans he wasn't going anywhere not too long ago. I think that is great news. He has the blueprint for how to rebuild. Exciting times ahead for Sens fans.

It's not nice to kick a fan while he's down. Don't you remember that we had Ballard? This really isn't any different.

Not a lot of teams have their first in play.

Nashville, Jets, Calgary, Tampa....maybe a few more if you are pushing it. But that's it.

Not a lot of teams have their first in play.

Nashville, Jets, Calgary, Tampa....maybe a few more if you are pushing it. But that's it.
- deadpoulet

which is strange because most "experts" seem to say that this is one of the weaker top end drafts of the last 10-12 years.

I'd think teams would be more willing to move their 1st rounders this year, while clinging to their 2020 picks for dear life

which is strange because most "experts" seem to say that this is one of the weaker top end drafts of the last 10-12 years.

I'd think teams would be more willing to move their 1st rounders this year, while clinging to their 2020 picks for dear life
- sensarmy_11

Part of the reason I think is because you get a few true contenders and then some pretenders. Who think they can beat Tampa in the East? Not a lot of teams. Toronto might think they have a shot at them, but they moved already.

Another reason is that first round picks and prospects have more value now than they used to have. Gms know by now or should know that you can get into trouble really quick if you trade them like candies.

I could be wrong as well. It's just a feeling anyway.

Another problem now could be that teams are waiting on guys like Stone or Duchene before they do anything.

Part of the reason I think is because you get a few true contenders and then some pretenders. Who think they can beat Tampa in the East? Not a lot of teams. Toronto might think they have a shot at them, but they moved already.

Another reason is that first round picks and prospects have more value now than they used to have. Gms know by now or should know that you can get into trouble really quick if you trade them like candies.

I could be wrong as well. It's just a feeling anyway.

Another problem now could be that teams are waiting on guys like Stone or Duchene before they do anything.
- deadpoulet

probably more of a "we're only going to give them up for legit stars"

days of giving up 1st rd picks for guys like Martin Hanzal, Mike Fisher, etc are probably over....they're guys who are good, but realistically not much more than decent 2nd liners or good 3rd liners.

I think teams will still give up their 1st's this year (and probably next year, plus other assets) for guys like Stone, Duchene, Panarin, etc

Part of the reason I think is because you get a few true contenders and then some pretenders. Who think they can beat Tampa in the East? Not a lot of teams. Toronto might think they have a shot at them, but they moved already.

Another reason is that first round picks and prospects have more value now than they used to have. Gms know by now or should know that you can get into trouble really quick if you trade them like candies.

I could be wrong as well. It's just a feeling anyway.

Another problem now could be that teams are waiting on guys like Stone or Duchene before they do anything.
- deadpoulet

I've actually had the same thought myself in regards to firsts.

San Jose doesn't, Toronto is unlikely at best for Ottawa. Calgary gave a lot of picks away last year and doen'st have a 2nd this year. Tampa's first would need to be conditional.

But there's still a good number of teams left that could.

Washington is a team I think people discount, and they just won so they may be willing to keep their window open.

Winnipeg
Boston (Toronto adding Muzzin)
NYI

And then there's some of the less likely teams like Pittsburgh or Vegas. So while I agree, it's possible we're both being pessimistic.

And of course, teams can always trade picks in next years draft.

It's not nice to kick a fan while he's down. Don't you remember that we had Ballard? This really isn't any different.
- leafsfann

Ballard died almost three decades ago. However, things never really improved in To until the last few years. Stavro owned the team but he didn't have any money. The Teacher's Union owned the team and wouldn't spend any money. A series of GM's who mortgaged the future just to make the playoffs.

However, I do remember Sens fans laughing at the Leafs when they traded two first rounders for the talented but flawed Phil Kessel. Then watching the Bruins draft Seguin and Hamilton. They were gloomy days to be a Leaf fan

Now the shoe is on the other foot in Ottawa. Bad ownership. Poor management. Outside of Chabot and Tkachuk, no elite young talent coming. 31st place and no first round pick (top 3).

Ballard died almost three decades ago. However, things never really improved in To until the last few years. Stavro owned the team but he didn't have any money. The Teacher's Union owned the team and wouldn't spend any money. A series of GM's who mortgaged the future just to make the playoffs.

However, I do remember Sens fans laughing at the Leafs when they traded two first rounders for the talented but flawed Phil Kessel. Then watching the Bruins draft Seguin and Hamilton. They were gloomy days to be a Leaf fan

Now the shoe is on the other foot in Ottawa. Bad ownership. Poor management. Outside of Chabot and Tkachuk, no elite young talent coming. 31st place and no first round pick (top 3).
- EugenesAxe

it's rough, no doubt.

and just like leaf fans, Sens fans will just need to ride this wave until it breaks.

at some point, given the fact that he has no other business interests to fall back on, Melnyk WILL run out of money and have no choice but to sell. whether it happens this year, or in 5 years, it's an inevitability. I have no doubt he will completely burn this organization to the ground on his way out though, which is sad.

I wish there was something the league could do when they see this poop going on....especially in the case of the Sens where they can't even make payroll without having to borrow money.

anyways, we still have a lot of suffering to come I guess. I find through all this crap though, I'm losing more and more interest in even following hockey, which is sad. I love the game, I love the team and players, it's just disheartening to see the owner do this to everyone.

Ballard died almost three decades ago. However, things never really improved in To until the last few years. Stavro owned the team but he didn't have any money. The Teacher's Union owned the team and wouldn't spend any money. A series of GM's who mortgaged the future just to make the playoffs.

However, I do remember Sens fans laughing at the Leafs when they traded two first rounders for the talented but flawed Phil Kessel. Then watching the Bruins draft Seguin and Hamilton. They were gloomy days to be a Leaf fan

Now the shoe is on the other foot in Ottawa. Bad ownership. Poor management. Outside of Chabot and Tkachuk, no elite young talent coming. 31st place and no first round pick (top 3).
- EugenesAxe

Did the Pension Fund team not spend lots of money? Perhaps I was too young to remember, but I thought they always were one of the biggest spenders pre cap?

Regardless, yeah, Sens fans were pretty harsh during the kessel trade, we can't expect much sympathy.

But we've matured since then, that was years and years ago, we totally would never act like that today!

Did the Pension Fund team not spend lots of money? Perhaps I was too young to remember, but I thought they always were one of the biggest spenders pre cap?

Regardless, yeah, Sens fans were pretty harsh during the kessel trade, we can't expect much sympathy.

But we've matured since then, that was years and years ago, we totally would never act like that today!
- david22

the pension puppets spent money, they just spent it very poorly. they had bad management who gave lots of big money and NTC to past their prime vets. guys like Tucker, Kaberle, Roberts, McCabe, antropov, etc........I think they even had a name for that group of guys, like the "Muskoka crew" or something like that.

the leafs always had a good team, but never good enough to be an actual contender. almost like the Wild now, basically just a perpetual bubble team.

I think the Melnyk statement makes sense only if you put his words in the context of LeBreton. They have already had a few mediation discussions and they probably know the viable pathway for the recapitalization of ownership. I suspect that the vague references beyond 5 years has more to do with the beginning of the LeBreton era when Melnyk is longer affiliated with the team.

I spoke to a season ticket holder who attended one of these promotion/renewal events last week in Ottawa. I am told "hostile" would be a kind word in describing the feelings of the existing season ticket holders.

Pierre LeBrun makes some interesting points. He suggests that Stone's possible trade is holding everything up (trade market) and at least 8 teams would be part of the initial bidding.

I believe the plan has always been to trade Stone, Duchene and Dzingle. I don't believe the attempts to sign them are any more sincere than the fake negotiations with Karlsson last year.

Although I am personally hostile to what has happened in the breaking up of the team. I do not doubt that the return will be very good and in a few years the Sens will be an outstanding young team. They are following plan that comes right out of a text book on how to do a rebuild.

By this time next year we are really going to like the young Sens. But, nobody is ever going to like Melnyk.

Sabres offer:
2019 1st - SJS's that we own
Alex Nylander - was 2016 8th OA
Marco Scandela

For

Stone - must be signed at $9m per for 6 years

Sabres offer:
2019 1st - SJS's that we own
Alex Nylander - was 2016 8th OA
Marco Scandela

For

Stone - must be signed at $9m per for 6 years
- IonSabres

zero chance that gets it done

SJ's pick is going to be high 20's and Nylander is looking more and more like a bust each day

That package would be weak even if he wasnt' signed, and you think that will get it done for an extended Stone?

if Stone is extended....I want Buffalo's 1st this year, 2nd next year, and Middlestadt

2 major faults with Mr. M's statement.
1. How do I believe a man who keeps kicking his team and fans. A man expects his dog to be loyal after kicking the dog all day then pat him on the head at night.
2. Money does not make a team but good drafting of skilled and honest integrity players does. Dorion has a short record and it is ripe with mistakes with players. The players room was a mess and the trades have been horrible. The past is a great predictor of the future and Dorion's past stinks.

what did he say?

I am not sure if people should take the Melnyk comment all to seriously and if it means the end of Duchene and Stone. You can easily sign both Duchene and Stone and their contracts would work in the window Melnyk is talking about. It didn’t scream to me they were gone. Sort of the opposite to me. Kinda a final plea saying they will be competitive soon, just bare with us.

As for the statement itself, it’s laughable to predict a window of being successful several years from now to me. It largely depends on how the future unfolds. Melnyk making statements in Toronto about a team in Ottawa has always been ridiculous to me and there was no comment about a new arena in his “window”, which is something you think sponsors and investors would be interested in.

The point in the blog about the team past spending near to the cap on a laughable roster is great. Spending to the cap does not necessarily equate success. I’m really interested to see how Melnyk stars handling these new contracts being signed with all the cash going to signing bonuses rather than spread out over a year, like the Matthews contract. I assume that scares the crap out of him and wouldn’t be able to pull it off.

Ballard died almost three decades ago. However, things never really improved in To until the last few years. Stavro owned the team but he didn't have any money. The Teacher's Union owned the team and wouldn't spend any money. A series of GM's who mortgaged the future just to make the playoffs.

However, I do remember Sens fans laughing at the Leafs when they traded two first rounders for the talented but flawed Phil Kessel. Then watching the Bruins draft Seguin and Hamilton. They were gloomy days to be a Leaf fan

Now the shoe is on the other foot in Ottawa. Bad ownership. Poor management. Outside of Chabot and Tkachuk, no elite young talent coming. 31st place and no first round pick (top 3).
- EugenesAxe

ballard raped the team but it is completely false to say they wouldnt spend money in the 90s and 00s. For years they traded picks and youth for vets, signed ufas in order tobe a consistent playoff team.

they spent big money before the cap and have spent to the cap ever since

they also spend tons on off ice assets

zero chance that gets it done

SJ's pick is going to be high 20's and Nylander is looking more and more like a bust each day

That package would be weak even if he wasnt' signed, and you think that will get it done for an extended Stone?

if Stone is extended....I want Buffalo's 1st this year, 2nd next year, and Middlestadt
- sensarmy_11

There was something in LeBrun's comment that was intriguing. He linked Ottawa and Columbus as being together in holding up the trade deadline dance.

Columbus will move Panarin and Bob. They are asking a substantial return. Columbus also wants to get players back that will enable them to make a run in the playoffs this year.

Could Columbus be looking to convert their trade assets in order to take deal for (or do a three way) involving Stone and/or Duchene?

zero chance that gets it done

SJ's pick is going to be high 20's and Nylander is looking more and more like a bust each day

That package would be weak even if he wasnt' signed, and you think that will get it done for an extended Stone?

if Stone is extended....I want Buffalo's 1st this year, 2nd next year, and Middlestadt
- sensarmy_11

Okay, now we meet in the middle.

Okay, now we meet in the middle.
- david22

Stone is arguable the best 2-way forward in the NHL.

I think he's easily worth that package if he's already extended........if the Sabres are acquiring him as a rental obviously the return is different.