Stone is arguable the best 2-way forward in the NHL.

I think he's easily worth that package if he's already extended........if the Sabres are acquiring him as a rental obviously the return is different.
- sensarmy_11

oh yeah if he can negotiate a deal before the trade his value is massive!

I am not sure if people should take the Melnyk comment all to seriously and if it means the end of Duchene and Stone. You can easily sign both Duchene and Stone and their contracts would work in the window Melnyk is talking about. It didn’t scream to me they were gone. Sort of the opposite to me. Kinda a final plea saying they will be competitive soon, just bare with us.

As for the statement itself, it’s laughable to predict a window of being successful several years from now to me. It largely depends on how the future unfolds. Melnyk making statements in Toronto about a team in Ottawa has always been ridiculous to me and there was no comment about a new arena in his “window”, which is something you think sponsors and investors would be interested in.

The point in the blog about the team past spending near to the cap on a laughable roster is great. Spending to the cap does not necessarily equate success. I’m really interested to see how Melnyk stars handling these new contracts being signed with all the cash going to signing bonuses rather than spread out over a year, like the Matthews contract. I assume that scares the crap out of him and wouldn’t be able to pull it off.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

The cash up front deals are bonus deals that protect players against a possible strike or lock out. They simply get rolled into a long term balance sheet that almost all owners should be easily able to handle. The actual added cost (finance charges) on a front loaded contract (eg. Tavares) might add around $500,000 to the cost of the deal. The real advantage comes 5/6 years out where the hard cost is significantly reduced (say $2m per year) but the cap hit stays at $11m. Contract can be easily moved to rebuilding team where the team needs to get up to the cap floor.

It is a loop hole that is supposedly going to be modified during the current round of negotiations (NHLPA/NHL).

Sabres offer:
2019 1st - SJS's that we own
Alex Nylander - was 2016 8th OA
Marco Scandela

For

Stone - must be signed at $9m per for 6 years
- IonSabres

Garth is that you? Absolutely ridiculous!

Oh and frank you krapstain

These owners are all full of poop. NJ's ownership has been saying they'll spend when appropriate but magically that time never comes. We now have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league and the ownership has one of the top money making stadiums on the east coast.

I'm sure you guys know more about Melnyk, but I'd trust that guy even less.

zero chance that gets it done

SJ's pick is going to be high 20's and Nylander is looking more and more like a bust each day

That package would be weak even if he wasnt' signed, and you think that will get it done for an extended Stone?

if Stone is extended....I want Buffalo's 1st this year, 2nd next year, and Middlestadt
- sensarmy_11

I'd do that when you throw in Zingle as well.
I might even add more.

These owners are all full of poop. NJ's ownership has been saying they'll spend when appropriate but magically that time never comes. We now have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league and the ownership has one of the top money making stadiums on the east coast.

I'm sure you guys know more about Melnyk, but I'd trust that guy even less.
- Queenie_5_hole

Being a cap spending team does not guarantee success. The top 10 cap spending teams are:

Detroit
Washington
Edmonton
Anahiem
Pittsburgh
Dallas
San Jose
Calgary
St. Louis
LA Kings

The cash up front deals are bonus deals that protect players against a possible strike or lock out. They simply get rolled into a long term balance sheet that almost all owners should be easily able to handle. The actual added cost (finance charges) on a front loaded contract (eg. Tavares) might add around $500,000 to the cost of the deal. The real advantage comes 5/6 years out where the hard cost is significantly reduced (say $2m per year) but the cap hit stays at $11m. Contract can be easily moved to rebuilding team where the team needs to get up to the cap floor.

It is a loop hole that is supposedly going to be modified during the current round of negotiations (NHLPA/NHL).
- spatso

But that's the thing. For the Matthews deal he gets a 15 mill signing bonus but 700K actual salary year one. The signing bonus is paid on one day, from my understanding? A guy like Melnyk isn't going be doing that. Thought that was an issue in the Karlsson negotiations? There was a serious lack of signing bonuses? Cap hit doesn't mean much for Melnyk. Actual dollars is his concern.

I'd do that when you throw in Zingle as well.
I might even add more.
- IonSabres

you're insane

Dzingel is worth a 1st and a prospect by himself

go back to Garth's blogs, your valuation of players is more in line with his brand of psychosis

I'm thinking the relationship between Eugene and the Sens fanbase has gone toxic beyond the point of no return. EM seems like one of those guys that actually believes his own BS. The fans see right through it. He's like an obsessed lover who can't accept that his significant other doesn't want anything to do with him anymore! He got that "If I can't have her...no one will attitude!" and that never ends well.

But that's the thing. For the Matthews deal he gets a 15 mill signing bonus but 700K actual salary year one. The signing bonus is paid on one day, from my understanding? A guy like Melnyk isn't going be doing that. Thought that was an issue in the Karlsson negotiations? There was a serious lack of signing bonuses? Cap hit doesn't mean much for Melnyk. Actual dollars is his concern.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Yes, I think you are right about Melnyk. If somebody is cash strapped personally and operating off of a short line of credit big spikes in payroll are problematic. But, for most teams with a solid corporate structure it should not be all that difficult.

Philadelphia tried to force the issue with Nashville when the made a front end loaded offer sheet to Shea Weber. Nashville recapitalized their ownership structure, matched the offer and made themselves shock proof against any future team trying the same deal.

Melnyk can't do that unless he is prepared to give up controlling interest in the team.

Yes, I think you are right about Melnyk. If somebody is cash strapped personally and operating off of a short line of credit big spikes in payroll are problematic. But, for most teams with a solid corporate structure it should not be all that difficult.

Philadelphia tried to force the issue with Nashville when the made a front end loaded offer sheet to Shea Weber. Nashville recapitalized their ownership structure, matched the offer and made themselves shock proof against any future team trying the same deal.

Melnyk can't do that unless he is prepared to give up controlling interest in the team.
- spatso

Ya. I don't care about the other 31 teams.

It's a smart loophole and it shouldn't be an issue for NHL teams, but it is another handcuff for the Sens in my mind.

I'm thinking the relationship between Eugene and the Sens fanbase has gone toxic beyond the point of no return. EM seems like one of those guys that actually believes his own BS. The fans see right through it. He's like an obsessed lover who can't accept that his significant other doesn't want anything to do with him anymore! He got that "If I can't have her...no one will attitude!" and that never ends well.
- NewfieStud

It is perhaps worse. The wife has already left and is living with the boyfriend. Yet, he is pretending it is only a temporary glitch in the relationship.

you're insane

Dzingel is worth a 1st and a prospect by himself

go back to Garth's blogs, your valuation of players is more in line with his brand of psychosis
- sensarmy_11

Probably, lol.
We both are though.
Sabres need to win the deal if they are giving up assets to a Divison foe they are likely to need, and retain by waiting until FA to chase him or another.
Sens have some leverage in that he is a terrific player any team would want for sure.
But those teams who want a rental are similar to SJS in that the 2019 1st will likely be in mid to late 20's...and they aren't goving up a young, developing roster player to create another hole.

I'm fine walking away...but before I go...
Sabres 2019 1st
SJS 2019 1st
Sabres 2020 1st
Nylander
and any two of - Okposso, Sobotka, Scandella

For extended Stone and Zingle

Probably, lol.
We both are though.
Sabres need to win the deal if they are giving up assets to a Divison foe they are likely to need, and retain by waiting until FA to chase him or another.
Sens have some leverage in that he is a terrific player any team would want for sure.
But those teams who want a rental are similar to SJS in that the 2019 1st will likely be in mid to late 20's...and they aren't goving up a young, developing roster player to create another hole.

I'm fine walking away...but before I go...
Sabres 2019 1st
SJS 2019 1st
Sabres 2020 1st
Nylander
and any two of - Okposso, Sobotka, Scandella

For extended Stone and Zingle
- IonSabres

I'd hate losing Stone- but this is a pretty good offer. I'd take Scandella. Short term. 3 1st round picks, a decent prospect... that's good return.

Again- I'm not advocating for trading Stone- I'd prefer he stay- but if there's an impasse- this is a good deal.

I'd hate losing Stone- but this is a pretty good offer. I'd take Scandella. Short term. 3 1st round picks, a decent prospect... that's good return.

Again- I'm not advocating for trading Stone- I'd prefer he stay- but if there's an impasse- this is a good deal.
- Jordo

Seems like my Advisors want to decrease the offer just a bit.

Extended Stone
Dzingle

2019 Sabres 1st
2019 SJS 1st
2010 Sabres 2nd
Alex Nylander
Kyle Okposso
1 of Scandella or Sobotka

Since the owner is apparently gutting the team ov high priced vontracts, Okposo is required to reduce Sabres Cap, while helping Sens get to the floor while they tear-down / rebuild.

I'll draw-up the paperwork

Sabres offer:
2019 1st - SJS's that we own
Alex Nylander - was 2016 8th OA
Marco Scandela

For

Stone - must be signed at $9m per for 6 years
- IonSabres

Scraps won't get it done.
I think Stone ends up in Vegas. Perhaps in the offseason tho.


edit:

oh i see the offers are changing?

3 1st rd picks are insane lol.

will be an interesting TDL

Probably, lol.
We both are though.
Sabres need to win the deal if they are giving up assets to a Divison foe they are likely to need, and retain by waiting until FA to chase him or another.
Sens have some leverage in that he is a terrific player any team would want for sure.
But those teams who want a rental are similar to SJS in that the 2019 1st will likely be in mid to late 20's...and they aren't goving up a young, developing roster player to create another hole.

I'm fine walking away...but before I go...
Sabres 2019 1st
SJS 2019 1st
Sabres 2020 1st
Nylander
and any two of - Okposso, Sobotka, Scandella

For extended Stone and Zingle
- IonSabres

you're getting Stone, who would instantly be, at worst, your 2nd best player.........no matter what you're winning the deal.

Stone will cost a FORTUNE if he's re-signed, especially trading within the division. if you have an inter-divisional trade, the one getting the best player will be the one overpaying

Seems like my Advisors want to decrease the offer just a bit.

Extended Stone
Dzingle

2019 Sabres 1st
2019 SJS 1st
2010 Sabres 2nd
Alex Nylander
Kyle Okposso
1 of Scandella or Sobotka

Since the owner is apparently gutting the team ov high priced vontracts, Okposo is required to reduce Sabres Cap, while helping Sens get to the floor while they tear-down / rebuild.

I'll draw-up the paperwork
- IonSabres

also, your new offer is ridiculous. Nylander, like I said, has all the makings of a giant flop, and the other players have negative or no value.

if Stone alone goes to Buffalo, the price starts with Buf 2019 1st and Middelstadt, and goes up from there depending on an extension

Did the Pension Fund team not spend lots of money? Perhaps I was too young to remember, but I thought they always were one of the biggest spenders pre cap?

Regardless, yeah, Sens fans were pretty harsh during the kessel trade, we can't expect much sympathy.

But we've matured since then, that was years and years ago, we totally would never act like that today!
- david22

You are correct.

Spending was not the issue at all with the Teacher Pension plan.

also, your new offer is ridiculous. Nylander, like I said, has all the makings of a giant flop, and the other players have negative or no value.

if Stone alone goes to Buffalo, the price starts with Buf 2019 1st and Middelstadt, and goes up from there depending on an extension
- sensarmy_11

Meh.
Ran it by several in Sabres thread, couple Carolina fans there chimed in...a fan or two of your thread were on-board or close.
You are over-valuing the desperate situation the team is in.
Yes, he is valuable...he ain't God.
O'REILLY is a comparable...Sabres fans overvalued him too...ni shame in it, just a fact.

I think the Melnyk statement makes sense only if you put his words in the context of LeBreton. They have already had a few mediation discussions and they probably know the viable pathway for the recapitalization of ownership. I suspect that the vague references beyond 5 years has more to do with the beginning of the LeBreton era when Melnyk is longer affiliated with the team.

I spoke to a season ticket holder who attended one of these promotion/renewal events last week in Ottawa. I am told "hostile" would be a kind word in describing the feelings of the existing season ticket holders.
- spatso

just negotiating posturing by a man ready to sell the team.

telling everyone the team will suck for the next 3 years to really drive the price down. actions clearly in line with a man ready to sell.

The cash up front deals are bonus deals that protect players against a possible strike or lock out. They simply get rolled into a long term balance sheet that almost all owners should be easily able to handle. The actual added cost (finance charges) on a front loaded contract (eg. Tavares) might add around $500,000 to the cost of the deal. The real advantage comes 5/6 years out where the hard cost is significantly reduced (say $2m per year) but the cap hit stays at $11m. Contract can be easily moved to rebuilding team where the team needs to get up to the cap floor.

It is a loop hole that is supposedly going to be modified during the current round of negotiations (NHLPA/NHL).
- spatso

derp

Meh.
Ran it by several in Sabres thread, couple Carolina fans there chimed in...a fan or two of your thread were on-board or close.
You are over-valuing the desperate situation the team is in.
Yes, he is valuable...he ain't God.
O'REILLY is a comparable...Sabres fans overvalued him too...ni shame in it, just a fact.
- IonSabres

O'Reilly is not a good comparable at all.

Bergeron is probably a better comparison, but Stone is in his prime.

He's the best two-way winger in the game. Feel free to dispute that.

O'Reilly is an upper echelon 2nd line centre.

Stone and Duchene can and should net a 1st rounders and/or very good prospects. A 1st rounder for Dzingel would be an overpayment IMO. You never know how desparate a GM might be to make an acquisition but the problem is Chia is presently unemployed.

Melnyk is a terrible. He is a big part of the reason Alfie and EK are no longer part of the organization. Not only is Melnyk a PR nightmare everytime he steps in front on the mic but he has no imagination or vision either so causes the entire organization to lose credability simultaneously . Which is why you would have to overpay big time for Duchene or Stone to want to stay there with things the way it is right now. If he remains owner, he first needs to bring a hockey person with similar profile as a Shanahan who can bring some respect and credibility to the organization, get players and fans to buy into a properly defined vision and carefully laid out plan. Then you begin your rebuild.

You cant sound off with some half baked idea of a 5yr plan that involves a 2 year rebuild. 2 yrs?? you dont even have your 1st round pick in 2019 which might turn out to be Jack Hughes and unless you get very Lucky MD or MS arent netting you a top 10 1st rounder this year either. Take the leafs for instance....between 2012-2015 they drafted Reilly, Gaultheir, Nylander, & Marner and they still didnt turn things around until they finished last in 2016 and got AM34 (and traded for Andersen)....no way you do this in 2 years when all you have is Tkachuk and Chabot as core players