But Koekkoek hasn't been serving up the pizzas that Forsling has either
- LAHawk

Not only has Forsling been serving up the pizzas, he's been serving time in the box too.

We all say move Kunitz or Ward if we can get a 7th round pick. I am not so sure.
1) We do not need the cap room this year.
2) The likelihood of a 7th rounder ever making the NHL is very very small.
3) We do not have players in Rockford that have earned or deserve minutes in the NHL. (Let them earn it.)
4) Kunitz and Ward are have been good teammates.
If they want to go to a contender fine. But if not I am fine with them staying with this team and busting their ass with the rest of the team to try to make the playoffs. (Also I believe both players have stepped up their game recently. Of course that could be because they want to be moved to a contender.)
- -Doh-

Agreed. Moving Kunitz or Ward is not critical this year. No bearing on the future (near or far).

We all say move Kunitz or Ward if we can get a 7th round pick. I am not so sure.
1) We do not need the cap room this year.
2) The likelihood of a 7th rounder ever making the NHL is very very small.
3) We do not have players in Rockford that have earned or deserve minutes in the NHL. (Let them earn it.)
4) Kunitz and Ward are have been good teammates.
If they want to go to a contender fine. But if not I am fine with them staying with this team and busting their ass with the rest of the team to try to make the playoffs. (Also I believe both players have stepped up their game recently. Of course that could be because they want to be moved to a contender.)
- -Doh-

If the Rangers could get a 7th for Cody McCleod, I think Kunitz might bring a fifth or sixth.

Anyone think Entwhistle can make the jump next year? Plays a mature game for a 19yo?
- LAHawk

Entwistle will probably start in Rockford but could surprise in camp.

He's got the size and IQ.

He's very versatile as well (can play all F positions).

Indeed. I wasn't thorough in my answer. My point was more about the timeline and the rest of the team around them. Granted there are different rules at play here, but lets go from 1990:

O. Nolan
R. Hamrlik
A. Daigle
E. Jovanovski
B. Berard
C. Phillips
J. Thornton
V. Lecavalier
P. Stefan
R. DiPietro
I. Kovalchuk
R. Nash
MAF
Ovi
Crosby
E. Johnson
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares
Hall
RNH
Yakupov
MacKinnon
Ekblad
McDavid
Matthews
Hischier
Dahlin

Lots of good players (with a couple stinkers), but only a handful were one of the main reasons for their team's cup. Several are still struggling to make the playoffs.
- Chunk

P. Stefan
R. DiPietro

Granted it was against the Nucks, which have similar talent level overall, but the boys looked tough yesterday. Didn't give up on as many plays and a bunch of chippy facewashes.

A full training camp learning the defensive system would do these boys some good.

Question to the board: What do we think of Koekkeok? Is he salvageable? A piece to build with or a piece to trade?
- CanOCorn

1) toughest or a tougher version of the various defensive systems is said to be the man - to - man. It is also said that Colliton is a quite bright fellow. Someone can explain why Colliton feels this is his choice of systems. And just throwing this out there for us to consider: if future defense has three especially quick fast skaters, do we benefit a little or a lot with Colliton system? I realize there may be other factors involved, such as quicknes to read and react at speed..

2). Koekkoek has to play regularly in NHL. No more AHL..Forsling needs to play somewhere but he needs to stop playing scared which he is accused of doing sometimes. Until this stops, he is not going to be able to reach his potential. Although Forsling is said to be the best at read react at speed, there is more to defense obviously than that. But Forsllng was kept up here last year because of exactly this and hoping the rest of his game improves.

Keep in mind as well what scouts say about Jokiharju looking scared. Yet both are young, can get stronger. It is what is in their mind and willingness to overcome the physical being scared. Who knows how it turns out.

I like Koekkoek so far. Suggest that you read his scouting report then watch him.

Indeed. I wasn't thorough in my answer. My point was more about the timeline and the rest of the team around them. Granted there are different rules at play here, but lets go from 1990:

O. Nolan
R. Hamrlik
A. Daigle
E. Jovanovski
B. Berard
C. Phillips
J. Thornton
V. Lecavalier
P. Stefan
R. DiPietro
I. Kovalchuk
R. Nash
MAF
Ovi
Crosby
E. Johnson
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares
Hall
RNH
Yakupov
MacKinnon
Ekblad
McDavid
Matthews
Hischier
Dahlin

Lots of good players (with a couple stinkers), but only a handful were one of the main reasons for their team's cup. Several are still struggling to make the playoffs.
- Chunk

You have to make the right #1 pick also? What would of happened if Toews was taken by St. Louis first instead of E. Johnson? Also get the #1 pick in the right year, 2012 that Yakapov was selected #1 was really a weak draft

Interesting fact just mentioned on the Score670.

Patrick Kane is the last #1 overall pick to win a Stanley Cup with the team that drafted him.

Still want to lose for Hughes?
- scottak

Wait.....

Didin't Pittsburg just win a Cup????

Wasnt Crosby a First overall???

Didn't Pittsburg draft him.....????

What am I missing, please elaborate.....

Regarding the tanking. Looking at the draft I feel as long as the Hawks are in the top 12 for drafting they wil get a quality forward and most likely a center. Obviously picking 1-5 would be ideal to get Hughes, Cozens, Dach or Kaako, who are more NHL ready, but I would rather have the team win and play well. So much more fun to watch and I feel it builds better for the future than tanking does. Don't underestimate confidence!


If you look at most mocks they have 7 centers in the top 12 picks. I would love Newhook, Zegras, or Krebs for the Hawks in the 8-12 range. I like Turcotte's game just not sure if he can stay healthy.

If we fall to 8-12 my choice would be Newhook. I think the way he plays would fit great with the Hawks. I like him more for the Hawks than anyone not named Hughes or Kaako.
- Black Raven

Something that COULD happen...package the later first round pick with a player to move up to get Hughes or Kakko or more likely the 3-7 pick. Young d-man? A couple of middle six F and a young D man?

The offseason is a much different trade animal than the deadline.

Wait.....

Didin't Pittsburg just win a Cup????

Wasnt Crosby a First overall???

Didn't Pittsburg draft him.....????

What am I missing, please elaborate.....
- hawk35

Word play. Don't let them fool ya. I believe they were pointing out that Kane was the most recently drafted #1 overall pick to win a cup.

Agreed. Moving Kunitz or Ward is not critical this year. No bearing on the future (near or far).
- Chunk

Neither is here next year

So if you can get anything for either you do it.

Kunitz has been a total failure.

Ward has been nice and is better then Forsberg and a reason the Hawks signed him fast on UFA day. He was the CC insurance policy and they will need another if they don't trust Delia to take the reigns next year.

Indeed. I wasn't thorough in my answer. My point was more about the timeline and the rest of the team around them. Granted there are different rules at play here, but lets go from 1990:

O. Nolan
R. Hamrlik
A. Daigle
E. Jovanovski
B. Berard
C. Phillips
J. Thornton
V. Lecavalier
P. Stefan
R. DiPietro
I. Kovalchuk
R. Nash
MAF
Ovi
Crosby
E. Johnson
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares
Hall
RNH
Yakupov
MacKinnon
Ekblad
McDavid
Matthews
Hischier
Dahlin

Lots of good players (with a couple stinkers), but only a handful were one of the main reasons for their team's cup. Several are still struggling to make the playoffs.
- Chunk

Lindros- 89? There a quite a few stinkers in there- Yakupov,Stefan, Daigle, Phillips (whom they held onto instead of Chara)... DiPietro had injury problems but I think Milbury traded Luongo to get him!!!

My memory is getting worse- was Jovocop part of our great rivalry with the Canucks or did he pre-date it?

Still here.....was I entertained watching last night? Sure was. Did the D zone look like a clown car? Sure did.

A few things.
-Wild (57 pts) have 28 games left (14/14)
-Blues (55 pts) have 30 games left (14/16)
-Canucks (55 pts) have 27 games left (16/11)
-Avalanche (53 pts) have 29 games left (16/13)
-Oilers (53 pts) have 28 games left (14/14)
-hawks (53 pts) have 27 games left (14/13)
-coyotes (51 pts) have 28 games left (16/12)

Lots of teams with games in hand and the Canucks, Coyotes, and Avalanche have a heavy home schedule left each with 16 games at home.

I also saw McDonough interview...
1. He admitted it's a committee to decide in front office
2. Stan is very methodical
3. McDonough very careful talking about concussions saying all right things
4. If he touted this lineup as a playoff lineup and it doesn't happen, how does Bowman survive yet Quennevile didn't? Such a hypocrite.
- SteveRain

Many organizations in many industries have conversations at high levels about major decisions. Yet ultimately the decision is not the decision of the committee but by the Deparment Manager. I think the Hawks braintrust talk about players and prospects and trades, but Stan ultimately is making the final decision. I think the idea that McDonough is making all of the major hockey decisions is over estimated. If McD is making all the hockey decisions then he has done pretty good this year getting Strome, Cagiulla, Koekkoek,

Indeed. I wasn't thorough in my answer. My point was more about the timeline and the rest of the team around them. Granted there are different rules at play here, but lets go from 1990:

O. Nolan
R. Hamrlik
A. Daigle
E. Jovanovski
B. Berard
C. Phillips
J. Thornton
V. Lecavalier
P. Stefan
R. DiPietro
I. Kovalchuk
R. Nash
MAF
Ovi
Crosby
E. Johnson
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares
Hall
RNH
Yakupov
MacKinnon
Ekblad
McDavid
Matthews
Hischier
Dahlin

Lots of good players (with a couple stinkers), but only a handful were one of the main reasons for their team's cup. Several are still struggling to make the playoffs.
- Chunk

I find this line of thinking so short sighted and ludicrous.

Make the list of #8 overall picks over the same years...or the #7s....or #9s.

Then compare the same lists....NHL games...NHL points....Cups.

The #1 will clean the clocks of the later picks. Sure you get some gems lower, sure you get some duds at #1.

BUT....your BEST ODDS is to draft higher. Period.

**** now, before the trolls jump on this. I did not say LOSE ON PURPOSE....I simply state the higher your pick, the better your odds of getting a player to help you to the Promised Land. The Hawks without #1 Kane and #3 Toews win ZERO Cups over the last 10 years.

Tyler -

SPOT. ON.

So, given that all to be true, and the consensus appears to agree with your analysis here, what should the FO do the rest of the season?

1. Who stays?

A. Offense
19/88, 12/17, 20/91 are your keepers on the top three lines.

B. Defense
Gus has a role to play, and at his contract should be developed/evaluated another year to see if you keep him long term.

Murphy is pleasantly surprising me with the development of his game. Keeper.

Keith - unless the return is valuable, you keep him. Still a top four guy.

Dahlstrom - give him more time in the NHL. He will be a solid bottom pair guy at worst.

Seabrook - unmovable. maybe if they can get the ice tilted back more often in their favor, play zone D, and keep the odd man breaks to a minimum, he's a salary pariah but still serviceable.

C. Goalie - good question. Delia is serviceable now with upside. CC - unknown. No cap room for a new FA stud unless CC retires, or after LTIR'd can use that money for a replacement after the season starts.

2. What do they need?

A. Offense

Three tough wall warriors - one for each of the three top lines

A fourth line in the mold of Vegas' fourth line. Not sure if the personnel are in the pipeline for that. Maybe JC invests time to determine that this season.

B. Defense

Need at least one true top four guy that is not 5'10" 175 who can clear the crease and win pucks in the D zone. To start.

Seeing that there are AT LEAST five people needed to truly get back in the game, one sees that the importance of a high draft pick is even more critical since there is not enough cap room to solve everything through FA, or the current pipeline.

If the data suggest that picks from the top five slots have a higher chance of being something valuable, I would be interested in hearing why a plan to get that pick this offseason is NOT the best strategy. Especially when top six wingers and top four D guys are starting st $6MM a year.

Is there even value in sneaking in the playoffs just to get smashed, when most people already know much of the roster is not capable of elevating their game to the level required? And that it would kill their high draft pick opportunity.

Are Perlini, Hayden, Kruger, Sikura, Kampf, and Kahun the right candidates for a fourth line, let alone anywhere else?
- Return of the Roar

This is all 100% agreed.

Wait.....

Didin't Pittsburg just win a Cup????

Wasnt Crosby a First overall???

Didn't Pittsburg draft him.....????

What am I missing, please elaborate.....
- hawk35

Yes, I believe what they meant to say was Kane was the last #1 pick to win with his draft team.

Word play. Don't let them fool ya. I believe they were pointing out that Kane was the most recently drafted #1 overall pick to win a cup.
- Chunk

Reading is an art form. Nothing confusing about the original statement.

I would offer sheet Kapanen at $4 mil., can't see how Toronto could match, cost the Hawks a second round pick.

Many organizations in many industries have conversations at high levels about major decisions. Yet ultimately the decision is not the decision of the committee but by the Deparment Manager. I think the Hawks braintrust talk about players and prospects and trades, but Stan ultimately is making the final decision. I think the idea that McDonough is making all of the major hockey decisions is over estimated. If McD is making all the hockey decisions then he has done pretty good this year getting Strome, Cagiulla, Koekkoek,
- -Doh-

Running an idea out of your job parameters (noted responsibilities) is one thing. However, when you want to sign a guy or trade for a guy and have to run it by a group of people as McDonough referred to......that's a pretty dicey situation.

Read the article...lots of good stuff in there.

I took a lot of flack on this forum 2 weeks ago about the Blackhawks and people so down on how they were. My opinion is unchanged: this team isn’t as bad as some make out to seem and that they could be a contender next year no problem. And here we are, you beat the Caps and the Isles and then some bad teams and you’re right in the thick of it. I’m not saying they SHOULD go for it, but these players aren’t going to give up. The response I got was “why would we bring back virtually the same team and expect to compete.” Well, someone was relating this team to the Pens not all that long ago and I don’t think they’re all that wrong. Their are some strong pieces in place and Crow is an X factor

My belief is that Strome is absolutely going to break out as a 2C next season and the free agent market is crazy strong. If Panarin indeed does come back it changes everything for this team
- WSCTeton17

Welcome back

The 2009 team in the year before the 2010 Cup was infinitely more talented than this group, starting with a young, future Norris/HOF defenseman, and a future HOF center & wing Nothing like those guys on this roster. Except an older version of those same guys.

I mean, Strome and DCat are nice players, but Toronto hasn’t started to carve their HOF plaques yet.
- scottak

Agreed, add in Campbell, Versteeg, near ppg Havlat, Sharp, Byfuglien, and the Bulin wall.

The big pieces we have now are Kane, Toews, Keith, Debrincat. Then maybe Jokiharju, Strome, Saad.

I find this line of thinking so short sighted and ludicrous.

Make the list of #8 overall picks over the same years...or the #7s....or #9s.

Then compare the same lists....NHL games...NHL points....Cups.

The #1 will clean the clocks of the later picks. Sure you get some gems lower, sure you get some duds at #1.

BUT....your BEST ODDS is to draft higher. Period.

**** now, before the trolls jump on this. I did not say LOSE ON PURPOSE....I simply state the higher your pick, the better your odds of getting a player to help you to the Promised Land. The Hawks without #1 Kane and #3 Toews win ZERO Cups over the last 10 years.
- hawk35

What line of thinking? I was simply pointing out that #1 overall picks need a lot of help to win a cup.

I would offer sheet Kapanen at $4 mil., can't see how Toronto could match, cost the Hawks a second round pick.
- LAHawk

Be interesting to see if he’d sign a sheet for that.

Agreed, add in Campbell, Versteeg, near ppg Havlat, Sharp, Byfuglien, and the Bulin wall.

The big pieces we have now are Kane, Toews, Keith, Debrincat. Then maybe Jokiharju, Strome, Saad.
- ObeseOprah

Uncle Dale wanted to keep Havlat and not sign Hossa, how many cups would the Hawks have in the past 10 years, especially with Havlat being injured more than on the ice?

Be interesting to see if he’d sign a sheet for that.
- walleyeb1

I don't see how Toronto can offer him that much, and they would have to match, trade Nylander, or lose him.