Just curious, what picks did the Hawks trade away that "got them into this mess"?

In 2015 they gave up their 1st rounder (pick #30) for Vermette, in 2016 they gave up the 22nd pick in the Dano/Ladd trade with Winnipeg.
- TheTrob

There's also the two 2nds for Kimmo, a 2nd for Rundblad, a 3rd for Carolina's 5th (versteeg trade), the Ladd trade included a 3rd, Danault and a 2nd for Weise and Fleischmann, a 3rd for Jurco.

The Vermette trade was warranted, and you could argue the Ladd trade was as well.


But my point is, not being able to restock the team through our own system has lead to the last two year's of trouble. While other teams have been developing their prospects, we've been pushing ours into the market or trading away the pick to win now. It was worth it for 2013 and 2015, but we're feeling it now. You get back into the mix with top draft talent.

Can't see if being a first considering if you sign him for 4M or less it would only cost a 2nd to sign him to a deal and the Leafs would likely have no chance to retain him. If they want a player to help them win now I could see, depending on the player, something like a 3rd and a player for him. Leafs won't have a position of leverage in a Kap deal without them having a major issue on their hands
- Savetheembers33

Yes, but that is contingent on Kapanen willing to sign an offer sheet for $4M and I doubt he would settle for $4M and therefore he wouldn't sign the offer sheet. If Toronto can't fit his new cap hit into their cap space then they will be able to trade him for more than Sikura and a 3rd, IMO.

Kevin Hayes is a bum. He makes $5MM a year to put up 40 points, that's somehow WORSE than Anisimov, another bum.

He turns 27 in May, and is going to want a raise after this season because it's his only shot at a bigger contract before he turns 30. He's below average in Corsi and Fenwick, meaning he doesn't tilt the ice in his team's favor. I don't care how tall he is, he's not worth $5MM and the only reason he's been putting up points this year is because he's getting top minutes on a crappy NYR team (1st PP, Empty Net points).

You really want to give up a FIRST ROUND PICK for a guy who told us all to go f%#& ourselves years ago just so he can do it again? That's absurd. We don't need rentals because this team is not winning a cup. We don't need a rental or permanent Kevin Hayes, he's a 6'5" overpaid center who loses faceoffs, board battle, and games.

Kevin Hayes is the worst possible outcome of a first round pick: an NHL player who decides to stick you with the bill while he goes to look for another team. He doesn't deserve to be on this team.
- ObeseOprah

Hell hath no fury like a blackhawk fan scorned!

Hell hath no fury like a blackhawk fan scorned!
- TrueGrit

If you sign Hayes, you are paying a lot for a third line center

There's also the two 2nds for Kimmo, a 2nd for Rundblad, a 3rd for Carolina's 5th (versteeg trade), the Ladd trade included a 3rd, Danault and a 2nd for Weise and Fleischmann, a 3rd for Jurco.

The Vermette trade was warranted, and you could argue the Ladd trade was as well.


But my point is, not being able to restock the team through our own system has lead to the last two year's of trouble. While other teams have been developing their prospects, we've been pushing ours into the market or trading away the pick to win now. It was worth it for 2013 and 2015, but we're feeling it now. You get back into the mix with top draft talent.
- ObeseOprah

Unfortunately you can't have it both ways. Winning means that not only do you draft lower in each round, but that when given the chance to "win now", you will deal picks and prospects for what you feel will keep you in the mix. We can and will argue until the cows come home about how good/bad some of those trades turned out to be, but at the time most people felt that standing pat was not an option and pieces needed to be added for the playoff runs.

You are now seeing the effects of a a decade of winning and picking low in the draft, coupled with questionable cap management that wound up costing you players/prospects. You could make the argument that given where the Hawks have drafted they have fared very well in the draft with ADB, Schmaltz, Hartman, Sikura and others drafted lower in the 1st or in later rounds

If you sign Hayes, you are paying a lot for a SLOW third line center
- LAHawk

Fixed

Unfortunately you can't have it both ways. Winning means that not only do you draft lower in each round, but that when given the chance to "win now", you will deal picks and prospects for what you feel will keep you in the mix. We can and will argue until the cows come home about how good/bad some of those trades turned out to be, but at the time most people felt that standing pat was not an option and pieces needed to be added for the playoff runs.

You are now seeing the effects of a a decade of winning and picking low in the draft, coupled with questionable cap management that wound up costing you players/prospects. You could make the argument that given where the Hawks have drafted they have fared very well in the draft with ADB, Schmaltz, Hartman, Sikura and others drafted lower in the 1st or in later rounds
- TheTrob

I agree that a lot of our late 1st and 2nd round picks have been good. I just kind of wish we never went on this streak so we could finish with a guaranteed 4th or 5th pick.

I just don't see this team beating Nashville, Winnipeg, Toronto, Tampa, Boston, Washington. We let up way too many great opportunities, and the man-to-man defense needs to be fixed. Are we going to make the playoffs and get a 16th overall instead of a top 10?

I agree that a lot of our late 1st and 2nd round picks have been good. I just kind of wish we never went on this streak so we could finish with a guaranteed 4th or 5th pick.

I just don't see this team beating Nashville, Winnipeg, Toronto, Tampa, Boston, Washington. We let up way too many great opportunities, and the man-to-man defense needs to be fixed. Are we going to make the playoffs and get a 16th overall instead of a top 10?
- ObeseOprah

I'm not saying the Hawks would beat them, but all teams mentioned (minus Tampa), have looked very mortal as of late. Depending on the day, and how the teams are playing going into the playoffs, any team can be beat.

The vaunted Maple Leafs are 2 points from becoming a wild card team
- LAHawk

The Canadian press is four square behind the Leafs. Would enjoy seeing the Habs supplant them. That would be a knee slapper moment, were it to happen. Probably won't, but still....

Fixed
- riozzo

Thank you!!!

I'm not saying the Hawks would beat them, but all teams mentioned (minus Tampa), have looked very mortal as of late. Depending on the day, and how the teams are playing going into the playoffs, any team can be beat.
- HawksHype

Yup. Every team has flaws. Tampa, the team everyone assumes is going to the cup, has been in that position before and failed.

A team that gets hot at the right time or, even more so, one with a hot goalie, can go a long way in the playoffs.

Interview with Stanley

https://www.nhl.com/news/...line-thoughts/c-304719636
- EnzoD

Love him or hate him, I will say Stan has some well thought out reasoning in his answers to the questions.

Love him or hate him, I will say Stan has some well thought out reasoning in his answers to the questions.
- breadbag

It is interesting how he is shaping the team now that he doesn't have to go get Q's guys.

There's also the two 2nds for Kimmo, a 2nd for Rundblad, a 3rd for Carolina's 5th (versteeg trade), the Ladd trade included a 3rd, Danault and a 2nd for Weise and Fleischmann, a 3rd for Jurco.

The Vermette trade was warranted, and you could argue the Ladd trade was as well.


But my point is, not being able to restock the team through our own system has lead to the last two year's of trouble. While other teams have been developing their prospects, we've been pushing ours into the market or trading away the pick to win now. It was worth it for 2013 and 2015, but we're feeling it now. You get back into the mix with top draft talent.
- ObeseOprah

I would argue 2016 was worth it, too. It just didn't work because the Hawks had the misfortune of probably the toughest 1st round match-up in those Playoffs.

I am in no way in favor of trading a 1st this year. However, saying the Hawks weren't able to re-stock because of not having picks is incorrect. Bowman and Hawks were making just as many picks as the Leafs, who were signing player to trade for picks, during those years.

I would say more of the issue has been trading players picked. Danault, Vinny, TT ,Hartman and others. Add in they have been drafting in the latter half of the 1st round, aging players and here we are.

It is interesting how he is shaping the team now that he doesn't have to go get Q's guys.
- LAHawk

Good point. I think there is definitely a plan based on what he has done since the sweep vs Nashville, but JC probably doesn't have as much leverage with regard to getting his guys, so Stan just does his thing.

It is interesting how he is shaping the team now that he doesn't have to go get Q's guys.
- LAHawk

That evil Q....trying to get players that excel in his system to win 3 cups. What a jerk. Thank vishnu they dont have to worry about that winning BS anymore.

Now if they can only get rid of Keith...who still wants to win...

Gotta give credit where credit is due for Stanley Bowman's work the last few months. Strome is a home run even if Perlini is a bust....if Perlini can learn to stay on his skates and grows a pair of cajones/work ethic, maybe his best trade since dumping Campbell's salary without giving up prospects.

Caggiulla has been a great adddition, but the irony in praising Bowman for unloading Brandon Manning and his awful contact is that Stan Bowman is the one who handed out that deal 7 months ago....still a nice move.


I love the Delia signing today, as well. Hawks could potentially have a #1 Goalie for league minimum salary....


I made the suggestion of "Buy Low" on players similar to Strome, CooCoo, Perlini, like Ivan Provorov. High draft picks with Talent that have not put it together yet in the NHL. I think StanBo should be on the phone with EDM about Pulljujarvi. I love Caggiulla, but I think Pulljujarvi's size and shot with Toews/Kane could be just what the doctor ordered. Any other suggestions on "buy-low" youngsters that fit this bill?
- EnzoD

Go for Andre Burakosky, he played on the Otters w/Strome and also
played in Sweden so JC might know him. Forsling/Fortin should be more
than enuf

Love him or hate him, I will say Stan has some well thought out reasoning in his answers to the questions.
- breadbag

Encouraged by the interview....by not denying the Keith/Seabrook rumors, that is almost the same as confirming them...right?? Seems as though he's still in potential sell mode depending on the next 2 weeks of play.

Thank you!!!
- LAHawk

LOL, hope you got a chuckle out of that...

IF we make the playoffs, IF, it would be great to face the Preds in round 1 and bounce them out of the playoffs.

I would argue 2016 was worth it, too. It just didn't work because the Hawks had the misfortune of probably the toughest 1st round match-up in those Playoffs.

I am in no way in favor of trading a 1st this year. However, saying the Hawks weren't able to re-stock because of not having picks is incorrect. Bowman and Hawks were making just as many picks as the Leafs, who were signing player to trade for picks, during those years.

I would say more of the issue has been trading players picked. Danault, Vinny, TT ,Hartman and others. Add in they have been drafting in the latter half of the 1st round, aging players and here we are.
- Elbows15

Hindsight is 20/20. If Weise and Flieschman work out and the Hawks win that year then the Danault trade doesn't look so bad. Vinny and Hartman are not great losses and the return for them has been fine. The TT deal in order to get rid of Bickells contract was bad, but he may have wound up being a cap casualty anyway.

IF we make the playoffs, IF, it would be great to face the Preds in round 1 and bounce them out of the playoffs.
- BetweenTheDots

I have the Banner:

2019 Regular Season
Western Conference
Central Division
2nd Place Champions

and when your 10 greatest player of all time is: Mike Ribeiro - well . . .

https://www.ranker.com/li...of-all-time/ranker-hockey

I have the Banner:

2019 Regular Season
Western Conference
Central Division
2nd Place Champions

and when your 10 greatest player of all time is: Mike Ribeiro - well . . .

https://www.ranker.com/li...of-all-time/ranker-hockey
- riozzo

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Hindsight is 20/20. If Weise and Flieschman work out and the Hawks win that year then the Danault trade doesn't look so bad. Vinny and Hartman are not great losses and the return for them has been fine. The TT deal in order to get rid of Bickells contract was bad, but he may have wound up being a cap casualty anyway.
- TheTrob

Agree here. Coulda woulda shoulda, but this boiled down to a Game 7 against St. Louis with their largest amount of stars. A team stacked with Kane, Toews, Ladd, Panarin, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Campbell and Crow likely would've gotten far this year if we got past St. Louis. Weise didn't gel but he fit that Eager, Mayers, etc. mould but he was chipping in that year.

I don't want the Hawks to actively tank but I also don't want Hawks management to try and sneak in playoffs but making foolish trades. Let's be real - Hawks are not presently built to win the Stanley Cup and the Hawks do not have the cap size to become a real contender without an infusion of young talent. It's great seeing the Hawks win and be competitive but I think getting swept in the first round (again) is the greater demoralizer because it means the Hawks are stuck in mediocrity.
- hankscorpio

Good post

Short term gain = long term pain