The league will want Edmonton to draft #1 so there can be Hughes brother rivalry between the Oilers and Canucks.
- DarthKane

Conspiracy eh?
What conspiracy?
Weighted ping pong balls?
Flawed judicially and economically
Since there is less value for the Canadien dollar
Good conversation at the local Tim Horton's
Totally meaninglessness and holds no relevance
To ever occur. But you ate at a Tim Horton's, eh!

You started by saying that JC is a bad coach and should have implemented a system that hides the deficiencies.

I stated that the Hawks were trash defensively under Q and JC, and asked what system could be implemented that would fix the problem, and you follow that with “sign better players”?
- Chunk

It's really not the system - it's that this defense isn't on the same page - at times they're not even on the same planet. They have no chemistry, you have vets that spent a decade playing with the same partners - then one day it's gone and and replaced with a bunch of inexperienced youngsters that don't know the system, don't know each other, that aren't even remotely ready to log NHL minutes without being on a short leash.... Of course guys like Seabrook and Keith end up looking bad because now their games are off because they're worrying about what their inexperience D partner is doing instead of focusing on what they're doing and supposed to do...

Our defense changed too fast.....You just cant throw a bunch of players together and expect them to "figure it out" ..

Look at the D in 2016-17 (and several years before that, it looked pretty much like this):

Campbell
Forsling
Hjalmarsson
Keith
Kempny
Oduya
Rozsival
Seabrook
TVR

Look at the D in 2017-18

Dahlstrom
Frosling
Franson
Gustavsson
Hillman
Keith
Kempny
Murphy
Oseterle
Rutta
Seabrook

Then in 2018-19:

Dahlstrom
Davidson
Forsling
Gustafsson
Joker
Keith
Koekkoek
Manning
Murphy
Rutta
Seabrook

That's why the Hawks D has been terrible - there is no solid foundation there, just a bunch of inexperienced guys playing musical chairs...

The only guys remaining from the Hawks D core that played together for all those years pre-2016-17 are Keith, Seabrook and Forsling ..... So it's kinda hard to get something going when the defense is constantly changing, especially when the guys you're bringing in have little to no NHL experience and don't know the system and in many cases aren't even NHL ready...

It was too much change way too fast.... Of course the Hawks didn't have much of a choice given the salary cap pretty much limited the Hawks to players they already had in their system but not long enough for them to learn the system er better yet adapt to the system...

I mean it takes a while to learn and adapt to not only the system but to familiarize yourself with the guys you're playing with, but like I said - our defense has been a game of musical chairs for the last 2 years.... Our defense has been anything but stable over that time, and for a decade we had a stable defense, then overnight it basically turns into anarchy and chaos... And I don't think infusing the D with Europeans that had little to no North American experience helped at all.

Now I'm sure if Bowman signs a legitimate NHL veteran top 4 and a legitimate NHL veteran #4-5 the defense will get a hell of a lot better.... That, and I think guys like Gus (great PP QB, still terrible defensively), Forsling and Murphy are looking a lot better because they're getting more familiar with not only the system but with each other -- the only problem is that Forsling and Gus don't have top 4 talent.. I suppose Forsling still has potential but he's not there yet... Guys like Forsling need to be eased into the NHL not just thrown into the jungle and told: "we're going to need you to learn all of this really really really fast, good luck"... This is the NHL, it's not a trade school, it's where you play once you've learned how to play and are good enough to play.... Only youngsters with the highest talent who have nothing to learn or gain from lower levels start off in the NHL, the Hawks don't have any of those 18-year-old hockey savants right now .... And I'm not saying these young defenseman playing NHL minutes lack any experience or development, what I am saying is that what they've learned and the experience they've gained isn't enough for the NHL, or for the roles they've been asked to play...

The only solution to this problem is to sign legitimate veteran players that can fill these roles, but that was kinda hard for Bowman to do when he had no cap space to sign the players he wanted and was stuck picking though the UFA bargain bin looking for someone that would sign on the cheap and on a 1 or 2 year deal.... There is a good reason why Bowman signed who he did -- because no NHL team wanted them.. As they say - beggars cant be choosers..... I also think Bowman jumped the gun on many of his signings and targeted players he knew he could afford but overpaid or didn't bother to haggle or negotiate out of fear they would be signed by another team if the negotiation process took too long so he gave them what they wanted.. I mean Bowman with his back against the salary cap wasn't negotiating out of a position of strength if he was negotiating at all...... Of course the players Bowman did sign over the past two summers wren't enough.... Tho I must say I think Tommy Wingles and Lance Bouma were decent signings but they would have been more effective on a contending team - they didn't do enough to make any sort of a difference, not when half of the team had no NHL experience and your inexperienced defense was skating around like a bunch of headless chickens chasing a puck....... But the Hawks still were in a playoff spot in December 2017 because Crawford had been light out and playing the best hockey of his career until he got injured and that was that, of course then goaltending became a game of musical chairs that lasted for the rest of the season...

See the common trend here a year later? no stability..... You need stability before you can make or have any sort of chemistry - you need stability to have a "system"... I mean there were only a handful of players on this team that had any idea what they were doing over these past 2 seasons - and those were the remaining core players.. I think DeBrincat and Schmaltz did well for being rookies, but that's only because they're talented players... DeBrincat did great because he has a high hockey IQ and Schmaltz did well because he has tremendous skill... Hinostroza and Hartman weren't too shabby either, but they had been in the system for a while, properly developed and slowly integrated into the NHL, that and they looked far less out of place because the rest of the team were just getting their first taste of NHL action..

My point is that this team - especially the defense - has been terrible for 2 years because there was no stability.... That's starting to change, the offense is forming chemistry which is a positive sign and a sign of good things to come however the D is still a wreck and thankfully the Hawks are out of "cap hell" and will have plenty of cap space and flexibility this summer to address that issue.. But how do you address the issue? do you go out and sign a legitimate top 4 and a #4-5 to long term deals? few if any legitimate top defenseman under 30 will sign for anything less than 4 years minimum. Especially if they know they're not in your future plans.. So Bowman is going to have a hard time attracting UFA defenseman that are willing to sign shorter term deals that still have something left in the tank to give.. Or do you go out and give a defenseman like Jake Gardener or Tyler Myers their 5-6 year deal (they're probably looking for 7 being they're 28 years old making them signed until they're 35) and then spend a little more time developing Joker, Boqvist, Beaudin etc, and then worry about the defense log-jam when it comes?.. The other option is targeting defenseman that are a little older - guys like Edler, Stralman or Bouwmeester.. Guys that know the only offers they will get are offers that extend them until they're 35.

These signings would be ideal:

Alex Edler 3 years 12M (4M AAV)
Jay Bouwmeester 1 year 2.5M
Anton Stralman - 4 years 20M (5M AAV)

IMO, if Bowman goes out and signs Edler & Bouwmeester that would solve the problem on defense...

Keith-Joker
Edler-Seabrook
Bouwmeester-Murphy
Gustafsson/Forsling/Dahlstrom

That defense would be a massive improvement over what we have now.. Sure, Edler and Bouwmeester are on the wrong side of 30 but they're legitimate veteran top 4 defenseman that can play 20+ minutes a night, not only that but their contracts would expire around the time Boqvist/Beaudin/Mitchell and Krys would be NHL ready.

At any rate, that's the problem and that's the solution and the only reason why the problem wasn't fixed these past 2 summers is because Bowman had no cap space, and even if he had a little who could he have signed that would have prevented this mess? it's not exactly like responsible, legitimate top 4 defenseman that fit in your budget grow on trees and hindsight solutions are useless.

Conspiracy eh?
What conspiracy?
Weighted ping pong balls?
Flawed judicially and economically
Since there is less value for the Csnadien dollar
Good conversation at the local Tim Horton's
Totally meaninglessness and holds no relevance
To ever occur. But you ate at a Tim Horton's, eh!
- jhawk59

Even worse, Edmonton officially a lottery team. I'm sick of seeing talent get destroyed by that organization.
- Dieselhead

Oiler is akin to Tanker. the Edmonton Tankers. Unreal that team, what waste of picks, and in cap hell still

Oiler is akin to Tanker. the Edmonton Tankers. Unreal that team, what waste of picks, and in cap hell still
- holyJumpin_NL

Curse of trading Gretzky

Oiler is akin to Tanker. the Edmonton Tankers. Unreal that team, what waste of picks, and in cap hell still
- holyJumpin_NL

maybe that team should be renamed after the Exxon Valdez spill instead. Drunk guy in charge, no oversight, no accountability and the innocent suffers.

maybe that team should be renamed after the Exxon Valdez spill instead. Drunk guy in charge, no oversight, no accountability and the innocent suffers.
- kwolf68

What a mess of a hockey franschise. Won't be long before McDavid is demanding to be traded out of there.

Politics these days are pretty simple. Either you are a globalist or a nationalist.

It is perplexing watching many genuflect at the alter of globalism as some virtue. They love the idea of a bunch of "elites" sitting around eloquently waxing poetic in some coffee shop. Moving them around like pawns on a board. Waiting for a pat on the head as if their life has more noble meaning because they "care" more.

They find no irony that the pooptiest places to live (literally with SF) have had the same leadership philosophy in place for almost a century.

And the depth of intellect (lack of) is clearly on display, when, again ironically enough, some, who have risen to positions of power and success in this country respond to any intellectual challenge to their positions, with charges of racism etc... Here is a little clue, if your first and only argument is RACISM, etc... you have no argument.

How does such insanity get a foot hold on so many people? This board often is a microcosm of that psychosis. That is if everything is not perfect now, go nuclear and destroy everything. As if we are entitled to happiness or instant gratification.

I lived in South Chicago as a young person. My grandmother took every precaution to protect herself, her family and what little material possessions she had on this earth. That is her first obligation, just like it is the first obligation of the Federal Government to protect its citizens. There are no 100% fail safes, there are risks to living every day. Nothing will change that, but it does not stop you from taking common sense actions to minimize negative impacts of certain activities. Locking your door in your home or car is now a form of racism.

Before the ORange man took over, as many call him. We had a sham government cast from hollywood. Moron dems and douche Repubs stoking emotions trying to make us all think they care about what we care about. Meanwhile, their goal has been to appease us all, while behind the curtains the country has been sold out to global interest. AS a reward, they have been given a seat at the table and or some stake in the global world order.

Now we have someone in there who is not part of the script. A Nationalist. We do not have to argue or debate. IF you are all for surrendering sovereignty to global governance, you are free to make that decision. Many others are not. The fact that many average American do not understand that is what he represents, whether you agree or disagree, shows clearly a lack of any intellectual curiosity.
- TrueGrit

What a mess of a hockey franschise. Won't be long before McDavid is demanding to be traded out of there.
- paulr

You'd think eventually if things do not change. They are bee-lining to yet another top of draft pick, you'd think at some point their incompetence would finally yield enough high-end talent to overcome their incompetence.

- paulr

Really. Listen to them, THEY WILL set you straight. See, they know more than others, somehow THEY are more informed. All the while casting their adversaries as "elitist" (in their mind elitist is appointing a Nobel winner in Physics as Energy Secretary when non elitist is appointing to the same position someone who is merely qualified to jackoff a horse) . It's hilarious just to sit back and watch it unfold. Either that or just walk away.

You'd think eventually if things do not change. They are bee-lining to yet another top of draft pick, you'd think at some point their incompetence would finally yield enough high-end talent to overcome their incompetence.
- kwolf68

I don't think any amount of talent can overcome the terrible culture created when the team's goal isn't to win hockey games but instead to lose so they can get good draft picks.

I don't think any amount of talent can overcome the terrible culture created when the team's goal isn't to win hockey games but instead to lose so they can get good draft picks.
- paulr

Don't forget the Arizona Cardinals made a Super Bowl, the Cubs finally won it all, so things do change. Hell, even the Cleveland Browns, maybe the NFLs biggest sadsack joke of a franchise, run by a criminal, made tremendous strides last year.

The Oil has 4 or 5 REALLY nice players. A good core to build around.

And hell, don't forget the Hawks of the early 2000s, easily the LOW-light of this great franchise, they were the BIGGEST joke in the NHL. But things did change. You do make a great point in that it's the culture, but I submit that too can change.

I don't think any amount of talent can overcome the terrible culture created when the team's goal isn't to win hockey games but instead to lose so they can get good draft picks.
- paulr

Yep, there's a difference between being bad and being a loser who accepts losing.

The best way to avoid a losing culture is a lot of whey protein with a crap load of dead lifts. Pallie.

Don't forget the Arizona Cardinals made a Super Bowl, the Cubs finally won it all, so things do change. Hell, even the Cleveland Browns, maybe the NFLs biggest sadsack joke of a franchise, run by a criminal, made tremendous strides last year.

The Oil has 4 or 5 REALLY nice players. A good core to build around.

And hell, don't forget the Hawks of the early 2000s, easily the LOW-light of this great franchise, they were the BIGGEST joke in the NHL. But things did change.
- kwolf68

Fair enough but none of those teams created a culture where it was acceptable to lose so they could be in a position to get good draft picks. A team culture where losing is the goal is very hard to overcome and should be something the fans who want to see the Hawks intentionally tank should think of.

Yep, there's a difference between being bad and being a loser who accepts losing.

The best way to avoid a losing culture is a lot of whey protein with a crap load of dead lifts. Pallie.
- mohel

That's so one can put on that proverbial 20 lbs of muscle your buddy JJ was always espousing.

Fair enough but none of those teams created a culture where it was acceptable to lose so they could be in a position to get good draft picks. A team culture where losing is the goal is very hard to overcome and should be something the fans who want to see the Hawks intentionally tank should think of.
- paulr

Oh I agree, and not to be your antagonist, remember the Penguins of the 1980s purposely tanked so they could get Mario. It was a scumbag move, it defiled the game and I appreciate your healthy disrespect for that model. However, it DID get them two Cups.

So I am torn on all this. I can see all the angles, or so I think.

That said, I AM absolutely opposed to purposely tanking. 100% opposed. In fact, as cynical as I am about our chances, the fact remains we STILL have a chance to make the tournament and that is good enough for me to root root root for the home team.

I think I strayed from my original point to something different. LOL

- paulr

Globalist!

That's so one can put on that proverbial 20 lbs of muscle your buddy JJ was always espousing.
- paulr

My buddy? Yeah, he and I were tight.

Don't forget the Arizona Cardinals made a Super Bowl, the Cubs finally won it all, so things do change. Hell, even the Cleveland Browns, maybe the NFLs biggest sadsack joke of a franchise, run by a criminal, made tremendous strides last year.

The Oil has 4 or 5 REALLY nice players. A good core to build around.

And hell, don't forget the Hawks of the early 2000s, easily the LOW-light of this great franchise, they were the BIGGEST joke in the NHL. But things did change. You do make a great point in that it's the culture, but I submit that too can change.
- kwolf68

As a life long Cub fan, i realized if the owner doesn't get it, the team doesn't get it. I have friends who are Red Wing fans and said if my theory is correct and next guy in line doesn't understand hockey, it might be a long time before they ever win a Cup again.

Globalist!
- Beaver-Warrior

Nationalist!

You started by saying that JC is a bad coach and should have implemented a system that hides the deficiencies.

I stated that the Hawks were trash defensively under Q and JC, and asked what system could be implemented that would fix the problem, and you follow that with “sign better players”?
- Chunk

The system is just 1 of a myriad of problems. #1 & 2 are on JC. # 3, 4 & 5 are on Stan. And lets not forget, Q did not have access to either Murphy or Dahlstrom during his tenure at the beginning of the season. So, comparing the D under Q & JC is comparing apples & oranges.

1. I’d start by playing zone defensively.

2. Next, I’d play my best players. Something like

Keith . Jokiharju
Dahlstrom . Murphy
Koekkoek. Gustafsson
Seabrook in the press box, subbing in against the more physical opponents, such as Boston

3. Then I’d trade Forsling for any draft pick(s) I could get.

4. This offseason, I would sign a top 4, in order to bridge to when some of the drafted D are ready to take the next step. I'd rather put my resources into signing a defenseman than a forward. Defense wins championships.

5. I wouldn’t bring any of the current draftees to the NHL until they show that they are ready by having prolonged success in the AHL.

6. My goal is to be a contender as early as 20-21

Nationalist!
- paulr

LOL. How about a Global-Nationalist? Or national-globalist? Whatever, we have to define each other so we know which box we all fit into. Makes it much easier to figure out who to like and hate.

My buddy? Yeah, he and I were tight.
- mohel

Don’t forget about the puke bucket...a necessary accoutrement to the aforementioned 20+ lbs of muscle.

Really. Listen to them, THEY WILL set you straight. See, they know more than others, somehow THEY are more informed. All the while casting their adversaries as "elitist" (in their mind elitist is appointing a Nobel winner in Physics as Energy Secretary when non elitist is appointing to the same position someone who is merely qualified to jackoff a horse) . It's hilarious just to sit back and watch it unfold. Either that or just walk away.
- kwolf68

Just a FYI. I guess you didn't see the post last night about laying off the political talk.

Don’t forget about the puke bucket...a necessary accoutrement to the aforementioned 20+ lbs of muscle.
- HawkintheD

Weren't you one of the antagoists that drove JJ away from this site?