Weren't you one of the antagoists that drove JJ away from this site?
- paulr

I doubt HawknD chased him away. HawknD is good people. He and I don't always agree on things, but we do it respectfully toward each other and have had IM conversations. Seriously doubt HnD is even a minor part of why JJ moved on.

I doubt HawknD chased him away. HawknD is good people. He and I don't always agree on things, but we do it respectfully toward each other and have had IM conversations. Seriously doubt HnD is even a minor part of why JJ moved on.
- kwolf68

The joke carries on.

JL, Your friend Ian McLaren over at SecondCity Hockey really has a man crush for Entwhistle. This is about the 3rd article about him in the last few weeks.

https://www.secondcityhoc...ter-guelph-storm-ohl-2019

I think he'll be in Rockford next year and hopefully with the Hawks the following year.

I doubt HawknD chased him away. HawknD is good people. He and I don't always agree on things, but we do it respectfully toward each other and have had IM conversations. Seriously doubt HnD is even a minor part of why JJ moved on.
- kwolf68

Shut up Wolf! It’s on my HB resume.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE...PLEASE MOVE ALONG...

The joke carries on.
- I Am The Breadman

Perhaps I have "missed something". LOL.

Shut up Wolf! It’s on my HB resume.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE...PLEASE MOVE ALONG...
- HawkintheD

LOL.

JL, Your friend Ian McLaren over at SecondCity Hockey really has a man crush for Entwhistle. This is about the 3rd article about him in the last few weeks.

https://www.secondcityhoc...ter-guelph-storm-ohl-2019

I think he'll be in Rockford next year and hopefully with the Hawks the following year.
- boilermaker100

This kid has been rising up the charts. Not to become a Stan-fan overnight, it appears he may have landed a nice sleeper with him. Wasn't this player acquired in the Hossa salary dump?

Perhaps I have "missed something". LOL.
- kwolf68

Hahaha, or someone. It's okay if you did. We do that from time to time.

I don't think any amount of talent can overcome the terrible culture created when the team's goal isn't to win hockey games but instead to lose so they can get good draft picks.
- paulr

There definitely is a lot to say that how this organization is run (coaching and management) detracts from the quality of the on-ice product.

This kid has been rising up the charts. Not to become a Stan-fan overnight, it appears he may have landed a nice sleeper with him. Wasn't this player acquired in the Hossa salary dump?
- kwolf68

Yes, and we almost drafted him.

Yep, there's a difference between being bad and being a loser who accepts losing.

The best way to avoid a losing culture is a lot of whey protein with a crap load of dead lifts. Pallie.
- mohel

Good point!

This kid has been rising up the charts. Not to become a Stan-fan overnight, it appears he may have landed a nice sleeper with him. Wasn't this player acquired in the Hossa salary dump?
- kwolf68

I think so. I get him and Ejdsell mixed up. Ejdsell was part of the Hartman trade.

Oh I agree, and not to be your antagonist, remember the Penguins of the 1980s purposely tanked so they could get Mario. It was a scumbag move, it defiled the game and I appreciate your healthy disrespect for that model. However, it DID get them two Cups.

So I am torn on all this. I can see all the angles, or so I think.

That said, I AM absolutely opposed to purposely tanking. 100% opposed. In fact, as cynical as I am about our chances, the fact remains we STILL have a chance to make the tournament and that is good enough for me to root root root for the home team.

I think I strayed from my original point to something different. LOL
- kwolf68

I am completely opposed to tanking, which I define as telling your best players to go out and play to lose. (Or the players taking it upon themselves to play to lose.)

The conundrum comes from the fact that you can (a) build a team to be entertaining or (b) build a team to win championships. Eventually, in those rare and magical years, a and b can co-exist.

Early this year the hawks were not entertaining, and I don’t think anyone came into this year thinking they were going to win the championship.

I’d rather see them take the approach that the Cup is out of the question in 19-20 and probably 20-21 but...and this is a big but... we can target 21-22 and possibly 22-23 in probably the last viable years of Kane’s and Toews’ careers and start building now to get there.

If the hawks have to shed marginally productive players short-term to get there, do so. Lose now but at least put players on the ice who will compete. I’d rather watch someone competing and trying hard and entertaining me than guys just going through the motions to earn a pay check.

With that said, they could potentially target players like Ferland now, who will add to the compete level and be part of the build to the championship.

As a life long Cub fan, i realized if the owner doesn't get it, the team doesn't get it. I have friends who are Red Wing fans and said if my theory is correct and next guy in line doesn't understand hockey, it might be a long time before they ever win a Cup again.
- BetweenTheDots

Absolutely. It starts at the top.

It's really not the system - it's that this defense isn't on the same page - at times they're not even on the same planet. They have no chemistry, you have vets that spent a decade playing with the same partners - then one day it's gone and and replaced with a bunch of inexperienced youngsters that don't know the system, don't know each other, that aren't even remotely ready to log NHL minutes without being on a short leash.... Of course guys like Seabrook and Keith end up looking bad because now their games are off because they're worrying about what their inexperience D partner is doing instead of focusing on what they're doing and supposed to do...

Our defense changed too fast.....You just cant throw a bunch of players together and expect them to "figure it out" ..

Look at the D in 2016-17 (and several years before that, it looked pretty much like this):

Campbell
Forsling
Hjalmarsson
Keith
Kempny
Oduya
Rozsival
Seabrook
TVR

Look at the D in 2017-18

Dahlstrom
Frosling
Franson
Gustavsson
Hillman
Keith
Kempny
Murphy
Oseterle
Rutta
Seabrook

Then in 2018-19:

Dahlstrom
Davidson
Forsling
Gustafsson
Joker
Keith
Koekkoek
Manning
Murphy
Rutta
Seabrook

That's why the Hawks D has been terrible - there is no solid foundation there, just a bunch of inexperienced guys playing musical chairs...

The only guys remaining from the Hawks D core that played together for all those years pre-2016-17 are Keith, Seabrook and Forsling ..... So it's kinda hard to get something going when the defense is constantly changing, especially when the guys you're bringing in have little to no NHL experience and don't know the system and in many cases aren't even NHL ready...

It was too much change way too fast.... Of course the Hawks didn't have much of a choice given the salary cap pretty much limited the Hawks to players they already had in their system but not long enough for them to learn the system er better yet adapt to the system...

I mean it takes a while to learn and adapt to not only the system but to familiarize yourself with the guys you're playing with, but like I said - our defense has been a game of musical chairs for the last 2 years.... Our defense has been anything but stable over that time, and for a decade we had a stable defense, then overnight it basically turns into anarchy and chaos... And I don't think infusing the D with Europeans that had little to no North American experience helped at all.

Now I'm sure if Bowman signs a legitimate NHL veteran top 4 and a legitimate NHL veteran #4-5 the defense will get a hell of a lot better.... That, and I think guys like Gus (great PP QB, still terrible defensively), Forsling and Murphy are looking a lot better because they're getting more familiar with not only the system but with each other -- the only problem is that Forsling and Gus don't have top 4 talent.. I suppose Forsling still has potential but he's not there yet... Guys like Forsling need to be eased into the NHL not just thrown into the jungle and told: "we're going to need you to learn all of this really really really fast, good luck"... This is the NHL, it's not a trade school, it's where you play once you've learned how to play and are good enough to play.... Only youngsters with the highest talent who have nothing to learn or gain from lower levels start off in the NHL, the Hawks don't have any of those 18-year-old hockey savants right now .... And I'm not saying these young defenseman playing NHL minutes lack any experience or development, what I am saying is that what they've learned and the experience they've gained isn't enough for the NHL, or for the roles they've been asked to play...

The only solution to this problem is to sign legitimate veteran players that can fill these roles, but that was kinda hard for Bowman to do when he had no cap space to sign the players he wanted and was stuck picking though the UFA bargain bin looking for someone that would sign on the cheap and on a 1 or 2 year deal.... There is a good reason why Bowman signed who he did -- because no NHL team wanted them.. As they say - beggars cant be choosers..... I also think Bowman jumped the gun on many of his signings and targeted players he knew he could afford but overpaid or didn't bother to haggle or negotiate out of fear they would be signed by another team if the negotiation process took too long so he gave them what they wanted.. I mean Bowman with his back against the salary cap wasn't negotiating out of a position of strength if he was negotiating at all...... Of course the players Bowman did sign over the past two summers wren't enough.... Tho I must say I think Tommy Wingles and Lance Bouma were decent signings but they would have been more effective on a contending team - they didn't do enough to make any sort of a difference, not when half of the team had no NHL experience and your inexperienced defense was skating around like a bunch of headless chickens chasing a puck....... But the Hawks still were in a playoff spot in December 2017 because Crawford had been light out and playing the best hockey of his career until he got injured and that was that, of course then goaltending became a game of musical chairs that lasted for the rest of the season...

See the common trend here a year later? no stability..... You need stability before you can make or have any sort of chemistry - you need stability to have a "system"... I mean there were only a handful of players on this team that had any idea what they were doing over these past 2 seasons - and those were the remaining core players.. I think DeBrincat and Schmaltz did well for being rookies, but that's only because they're talented players... DeBrincat did great because he has a high hockey IQ and Schmaltz did well because he has tremendous skill... Hinostroza and Hartman weren't too shabby either, but they had been in the system for a while, properly developed and slowly integrated into the NHL, that and they looked far less out of place because the rest of the team were just getting their first taste of NHL action..

My point is that this team - especially the defense - has been terrible for 2 years because there was no stability.... That's starting to change, the offense is forming chemistry which is a positive sign and a sign of good things to come however the D is still a wreck and thankfully the Hawks are out of "cap hell" and will have plenty of cap space and flexibility this summer to address that issue.. But how do you address the issue? do you go out and sign a legitimate top 4 and a #4-5 to long term deals? few if any legitimate top defenseman under 30 will sign for anything less than 4 years minimum. Especially if they know they're not in your future plans.. So Bowman is going to have a hard time attracting UFA defenseman that are willing to sign shorter term deals that still have something left in the tank to give.. Or do you go out and give a defenseman like Jake Gardener or Tyler Myers their 5-6 year deal (they're probably looking for 7 being they're 28 years old making them signed until they're 35) and then spend a little more time developing Joker, Boqvist, Beaudin etc, and then worry about the defense log-jam when it comes?.. The other option is targeting defenseman that are a little older - guys like Edler, Stralman or Bouwmeester.. Guys that know the only offers they will get are offers that extend them until they're 35.

These signings would be ideal:

Alex Edler 3 years 12M (4M AAV)
Jay Bouwmeester 1 year 2.5M
Anton Stralman - 4 years 20M (5M AAV)

IMO, if Bowman goes out and signs Edler & Bouwmeester that would solve the problem on defense...

Keith-Joker
Edler-Seabrook
Bouwmeester-Murphy
Gustafsson/Forsling/Dahlstrom

That defense would be a massive improvement over what we have now.. Sure, Edler and Bouwmeester are on the wrong side of 30 but they're legitimate veteran top 4 defenseman that can play 20+ minutes a night, not only that but their contracts would expire around the time Boqvist/Beaudin/Mitchell and Krys would be NHL ready.

At any rate, that's the problem and that's the solution and the only reason why the problem wasn't fixed these past 2 summers is because Bowman had no cap space, and even if he had a little who could he have signed that would have prevented this mess? it's not exactly like responsible, legitimate top 4 defenseman that fit in your budget grow on trees and hindsight solutions are useless.
- Savard2Secord

I understand about the turnover, but I guess I am a little more patient than you. Yes I would like them to sign or trade for a top 4 defenseman for next year, but I also am a firm believer that you have to develop your own players too. Before making 3 free agent signings on defense, I would like to see whether Carlsson, Hillman, Raddysh, and Gilbert can step up as the next waive. Plus you do not tie up roster spots for 3-4 years on over 30 defenseman, we already have 2 in Keith and Seabrook.

JL, Your friend Ian McLaren over at SecondCity Hockey really has a man crush for Entwhistle. This is about the 3rd article about him in the last few weeks.

https://www.secondcityhoc...ter-guelph-storm-ohl-2019

I think he'll be in Rockford next year and hopefully with the Hawks the following year.
- boilermaker100

Ha. He does.

He lives close-ish to Guelph so think he's been taking in some games.

I am completely opposed to tanking, which I define as telling your best players to go out and play to lose. (Or the players taking it upon themselves to play to lose.)

The conundrum comes from the fact that you can (a) build a team to be entertaining or (b) build a team to win championships. Eventually, in those rare and magical years, a and b can co-exist.

Early this year the hawks were not entertaining, and I don’t think anyone came into this year thinking they were going to win the championship.

I’d rather see them take the approach that the Cup is out of the question in 19-20 and probably 20-21 but...and this is a big but... we can target 21-22 and possibly 22-23 in probably the last viable years of Kane’s and Toews’ careers and start building now to get there.

If the hawks have to shed marginally productive players short-term to get there, do so. Lose now but at least put players on the ice who will compete. I’d rather watch someone competing and trying hard and entertaining me than guys just going through the motions to earn a pay check.

With that said, they could potentially target players like Ferland now, who will add to the compete level and be part of the build to the championship.
- Spec41971

Bowman's interview in I think it was the Sun Times recently said he believes the team can contend for the cup in 18-24 months, which to me means they are not looking to tank (which you are looking at hopefully a 3-5 year rebuild), but like he is doing now, making hockey trades that tries to improve upon the skill of the club, and expecting (hoping) that the young players and draft picks pan out.

I doubt HawknD chased him away. HawknD is good people. He and I don't always agree on things, but we do it respectfully toward each other and have had IM conversations. Seriously doubt HnD is even a minor part of why JJ moved on.
- kwolf68

Hawk is a closet Deadwing fan. Justin is an upgrade over JJ IMHO.

Bowman's interview in I think it was the Sun Times recently said he believes the team can contend for the cup in 18-24 months, which to me means they are not looking to tank (which you are looking at hopefully a 3-5 year rebuild), but like he is doing now, making hockey trades that tries to improve upon the skill of the club, and expecting (hoping) that the young players and draft picks pan out.
- LAHawk

Making hockey trade to improve the club and smart draft decisions will go a long way to improving the product.

I doubt HawknD chased him away. HawknD is good people. He and I don't always agree on things, but we do it respectfully toward each other and have had IM conversations. Seriously doubt HnD is even a minor part of why JJ moved on.
- kwolf68

NO!

Hawk is a closet Deadwing fan. Justin is an upgrade over JJ IMHO.
- Beaver-Warrior

Justin is factual.

Was watching the NBCSN feed last night, and in between the first and second period, Anson Carter showed 3 times (Gustafson, Forsling, Perlini) where the puck was on their stick in the defensive zone, and they tried stick handling, instead of just getting it out of the zone.
- LAHawk

Who gives a crap what Anson Carter has to say.

Who gives a crap what Anson Carter has to say.
- 11Chaser11

Well he played in the NHL soooooooooooooooooo......

What happened to friendly hockey/hawks banter? It has gotten testy in here....

What happened to friendly hockey/hawks banter? It has gotten testy in here....
- nickmo2699

We're a divided house with one side pulling for the playoffs and the other side going for the tank.