Here's a nugget in DK's column last night.

• One member of the front office — not Rutherford — strongly suggested to me in the past week that the default mode will be to make a move. Not just to make it, but because there’s a sentiment that more is needed. That official went no further.

Stadium series helmets look great in the video. Not too sure what they'll look like on ice though.

Mackey saying Horny might be up with Sid and Jake next game

I want the assets I'd get for Kessel and have them playing for 3 years on ELC contracts

Kinda like, Sheary, Rust, and Guentzel were

If I have to pay 3 million extra for a younger, better 2 way player who puts up the same production AND I get the young assets, I'm in

2.7 million gets you a Riley Sheahan, or a lesser Tanner Pearson
- RoloTahmasee

I’m not sure if you saw what Kessel got last trade, but Kapenan was the only thing worth a time in terms of direct players contributing to the Leafs. Kapenan is no Kessel. It’s likely that whatever return for Kessel would be extremely underwhelming and may not even make the show given his age. Then to pay +2.7m for a “better” (really isn’t that much better. Kessel is actually a higher net gain but keep beating this “better” drum. It’s comical.) that likely won’t produce like Kessel seems like a boneheaded idea. You’re right that 2.7 gets you a Sheahan, I’ll take a 30 point middle six responsible forward to play the opposite side of Kessel and keep Kessel and his elite point production. Works for me.

I’m not sure if you saw what Kessel got last trade, but Kapenan was the only thing worth a time in terms of direct players contributing to the Leafs. Kapenan is no Kessel. It’s likely that whatever return for Kessel would be extremely underwhelming and may not even make the show given his age. Then to pay +2.7m for a “better” (really isn’t that much better. Kessel is actually a higher net gain but keep beating this “better” drum. It’s comical.) that likely won’t produce like Kessel seems like a boneheaded idea. You’re right that 2.7 gets you a Sheahan, I’ll take a 30 point middle six responsible forward to play the opposite side of Kessel and keep Kessel and his elite point production. Works for me.
- j.boyd919

All in all trading a ppg player on the downswing of his career at a reasonable cap it to TRY to sign a ppg player at the downswing of his prime for an overpay is retarded logic.

Mackey saying Horny might be up with Sid and Jake next game
- Thorny87

About time.

if you've suggested trading kessel, please turn in your hockeybuzz membership now

if you've suggested trading kessel, please turn in your hockeybuzz membership now
- DeflatedPucks

^^^agreed. Let's trade away elite talent at a reasonable cap hit and HOPE to sign a UFA to a stupid high contract. That's how you build championship caliber teams.

^^^agreed. Let's trade away elite talent at a reasonable cap hit and HOPE to sign a UFA to a stupid high contract. That's how you build championship caliber teams.
- j.boyd919

yeah, lets trade a 31 yo ppg player making 6.8m and maybe just maybe we can get someone better and at a lower cap hit. completely plausible.

At least Mario and Burkle aren't getting busted in Prostitution Stings.....Robert Kraft
- sammy87

Kraft was just there for a happy ending, nothing to see here. just like the patriots calling a guy trying to lose weight "the deflator." completely plausible

https://www.dailymail.co....liciting-prostitutes.html

yeah, lets trade a 31 yo ppg player making 6.8m and maybe just maybe we can get someone better and at a lower cap hit. completely plausible.




- DeflatedPucks

No no. They are completely fine with paying ~3m more for similar production. You got it all wrong.

I prefer Bjugstand and McCann over dumping Brass for picks. I realize your point is we'd have more picks to trade for different players but I like Bjug and Mccann. To get better players with those picks, you'd be looking at rentals and I dont think thats a shrewd move.

The Pens still need an identity...but with time I see Bjug and McCann being very valuable.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'm with you here. I liked what we got by dumping Brassard and Sheahan. Bjugstad and McCann are fine players and YOUNG.

Mackey saying Horny might be up with Sid and Jake next game
- Thorny87

Finally using Hörnqvist the right way. Either with 87 or 71.

Stone is shooting at 20% whereas his career average is 14%. His goal totals are likely to come down. He is 27, entering the tail end of his prime as forwards prime years are generally 22-27 so you’re going to pay an extra 2.7mil for a player that is going to start entering his decline.

Kessel over the last 3 seasons has put up 224 points whereas Stone has put up 178. This season Stone is tied with Kessel, with two less games. I don’t find it worth paying 2.7m for the same production. You claim that Stone is better at two-way hockey which maybe he is, but over the last 3 seasons Stones 5v5 goal differential is +38 and Kessel’s is +15. On the PP Kessel is a +119, Stone is a +63. While Stones 5v5 goal differential is better than Kessels (and I do value 5v5 production/stats more than special teams) Kessel’s PP production is nearly 60 goals more than Stones. I believe that Kessel net gain (which is positive) at 6.8m is a much better value than Stones net gain (which is also positive) then Stones 9.5m+. Mostly because if you are looking for two way play, you can literally sign a middle six forward to play with Kessel for 2.7+ and add that players production to Kessel.

Kessel @6.8m + middle6 @2.7m > Stone @ 9.5m+
- j.boyd919

Burned. Awesome explanation. Trading Kessel might be idiotic right now.

No no. They are completely fine with paying ~3m more for similar production. You got it all wrong.
- j.boyd919

that 3 million will get you prostitution rings but not another championship ring

The only guy that was rumoured to be available that I’d trade Kessel for was Terasenko from St Louis. That ship has sailed even if Phil would’ve excepted.

That being said I can totally understand people thinking about trading him. He’s incredibly frustrating to watch. More so now then ever as a Pen.

He’ll always get points on a line with Geno and on the PP, doesn’t mean he’s playing great.

The only guy that was rumoured to be available that I’d trade Kessel for was Terasenko from St Louis. That ship has sailed even if Phil would’ve excepted.

That being said I can totally understand people thinking about trading him. He’s incredibly frustrating to watch. More so now then ever as a Pen.

He’ll always get points on a line with Geno and on the PP, doesn’t mean he’s playing great.
- Thorny87

The reason to trade Kessel remains this team needs a massive retool - Trading Sid and Malkin are out of the question. So, what are the remaining assets?

Kessel - If he sooo good and such great value at 6.8 for 3 more years then he ought to fetch a good return, right, right?

Hornqvist - Not sure what he could get, 14 games with no points? Who's a taker for a guy like Horn?

Schultz - If the plans aren't to keep him beyond next year, then trade him now - If the plans are to resign him, then keep him since we need another PMD

18 million in cap flexibility plus assets

All these players have left their prime and are on the downside of their career. They won't be getting better, they will be getting worse and more injured more often

If you like wallowing in mediocrity, and like what the Hawks have done after their window closed and what their outlook looks like for Championships then by all means stay the course

If you think this team is a "Cup Contender" this year or next with the current roster, or if minor moves will shake it up enough to change things, then maybe give your head the shake and face some reality

What's the latest on the forecast for tomorrow night?

This sh!t might not even go ahead... If it's raining at all it's gonna be crap. Ever play hockey on wet ice? Garbage.

https://www.nbcsports.com...y-lincoln-financial-field

No no. They are completely fine with paying ~3m more for similar production. You got it all wrong.
- j.boyd919

A few thoughts....

This site was built on this kind of BS discussion. It's entertainment.

Nobody is suggesting trading Kessel now and certainly not trading him without replacing his production. At least I don't want to trade him now.

Most of us know the Stone thing is a "fantasy" discussion because it's hard to imagine he get's to UFA and the Pens are able to offer the best deal.

There's not a GM in the league who wouldn't swap out Kessel at 32 for Stone at 27 if the difference in pay were only 3mil. Especially an aging team like the Penguins.

Lastly, the Kessel rumors were legit. Multiple local guys reported Kessel was available after last season. Obviously Rutherford didn't get an offer he liked. It's not crazy to think that Kessel will be moved after the season when the GM was fielding calls after last season....especially if the rumors are true that Sully isn't his biggest fan.

The only guy that was rumoured to be available that I’d trade Kessel for was Terasenko from St Louis. That ship has sailed even if Phil would’ve excepted.

That being said I can totally understand people thinking about trading him. He’s incredibly frustrating to watch. More so now then ever as a Pen.

He’ll always get points on a line with Geno and on the PP, doesn’t mean he’s playing great.
- Thorny87

I wouldn't mind trading him for prospects and picks to package toward grabbing Hall who is rumored to be available this offseason or Terasenko.

The reason to trade Kessel remains this team needs a massive retool - Trading Sid and Malkin are out of the question. So, what are the remaining assets?

Kessel - If he sooo good and such great value at 6.8 for 3 more years then he ought to fetch a good return, right, right?

Hornqvist - Not sure what he could get, 14 games with no points? Who's a taker for a guy like Horn?

Schultz - If the plans aren't to keep him beyond next year, then trade him now - If the plans are to resign him, then keep him since we need another PMD

18 million in cap flexibility plus assets

All these players have left their prime and are on the downside of their career. They won't be getting better, they will be getting worse and more injured more often

If you like wallowing in mediocrity, and like what the Hawks have done after their window closed and what their outlook looks like for Championships then by all means stay the course

If you think this team is a "Cup Contender" this year or next with the current roster, or if minor moves will shake it up enough to change things, then maybe give your head the shake and face some reality
- RoloTahmasee

It’s obvious you don’t know how trades work. Teams that trade elite talent never come out in top.

Yes this team needs a retool but not it doesn’t need a major retool. The problem is the GM lost sight as to what made the team successful. You don’t trade the hard to attain pieces. You build around them. Sid, Geno, Phil, Letang, Jake, Schultz, Dumo, Maatta is as good of a core of start you’re going to find.

The problem comes when you’re constantly icing guys like Cullen, Wilson, JJ, Rikolla, at the moment Pearson. The roster is top heavy. Fixing the bottom part of the roster is the easy part if you know what to look for, the problem is GMJR doesnt know what to look for.

A few thoughts....

This site was built on this kind of BS discussion. It's entertainment.

Nobody is suggesting trading Kessel now and certainly not trading him without replacing his production. At least I don't want to trade him now.

Most of us know the Stone thing is a "fantasy" discussion because it's hard to imagine he get's to UFA and the Pens are able to offer the best deal.

There's not a GM in the league who wouldn't swap out Kessel at 32 for Stone at 27 if the difference in pay were only 3mil. Especially an aging team like the Penguins.

Lastly, the Kessel rumors were legit. Multiple local guys reported Kessel was available after last season. Obviously Rutherford didn't get an offer he liked. It's not crazy to think that Kessel will be moved after the season when the GM was fielding calls after last season....especially if the rumors are true that Sully isn't his biggest fan.
- madmike71

I wouldn't be surprised he gets moved in the off season, but this year no way.

What about that Dzingel? he's a UFA not as buzz worthy as Stone. Could also go after Skinner in the off season.

Either way, they gotta get Pearson and JJ off the books somehow. Id take Hags skating fast and not scoring and pending UFA over Pearson not scoring and sucking for 2 more years.

A few thoughts....

This site was built on this kind of BS discussion. It's entertainment.

Nobody is suggesting trading Kessel now and certainly not trading him without replacing his production. At least I don't want to trade him now.

Most of us know the Stone thing is a "fantasy" discussion because it's hard to imagine he get's to UFA and the Pens are able to offer the best deal.

There's not a GM in the league who wouldn't swap out Kessel at 32 for Stone at 27 if the difference in pay were only 3mil. Especially an aging team like the Penguins.

Lastly, the Kessel rumors were legit. Multiple local guys reported Kessel was available after last season. Obviously Rutherford didn't get an offer he liked. It's not crazy to think that Kessel will be moved after the season when the GM was fielding calls after last season....especially if the rumors are true that Sully isn't his biggest fan.
- madmike71

I dunno man. I don’t know if I agree with you on the swapping Kessel and Stone with a difference if 3m. I don’t necessarily believe Stone is THAT much better than Kessel if he’s even better at all to be honest with you. I’m a huge fan of Stone and I know the cap has changed contracts going forward which is exactly why I think Kessel at his current hit is more valuable than Stone and his 7 year deal at 9.5-10.5m.

I would much rather keep Phil and use that 3mil to fill out the rest of the roster. I believe the Pens having their core at those cap hits is SO valuable to them and allows them to extend their window. Again, my biggest problem is GMJRs roster construction. I don’t think this team has any kind of identity as to how they want to play. They had the opportunity to try to get guys like Grabner and de Hann, and other speedy guys to further extend their speed game and they chose to get bigger and worse.

I dunno man. I don’t know if I agree with you on the swapping Kessel and Stone with a difference if 3m. I don’t necessarily believe Stone is THAT much better than Kessel if he’s even better at all to be honest with you. I’m a huge fan of Stone and I know the cap has changed contracts going forward which is exactly why I think Kessel at his current hit is more valuable than Stone and his 7 year deal at 9.5-10.5m.

I would much rather keep Phil and use that 3mil to fill out the rest of the roster. I believe the Pens having their core at those cap hits is SO valuable to them and allows them to extend their window. Again, my biggest problem is GMJRs roster construction. I don’t think this team has any kind of identity as to how they want to play. They had the opportunity to try to get guys like Grabner and de Hann, and other speedy guys to further extend their speed game and they chose to get bigger and worse.
- j.boyd919

As soon as Stone gets a contract above $9M he'll become an albatross. I wouldn't want to be the team to acquire him for that kind of dough.

I agree we should trade a couple of older player in the roster NEXT offseason but not right now. Eventually Kessel and Hörnqvist will become available so we can get young fresh legs on the team.