We got like 10 of him in lehigh
- Just5

Oh weird then why are they in Lehigh? How come teams weren't asking for our 10 Lehigh players and offering a first round pick? This is (frank)ing stupid. Noone in Lehigh currently is as good as him. Our best forward was voroybov and he couldn't stick with the team this year twice

We got like 10 of him in lehigh
- Just5

Not that played in Charlotte on Friday. They could use more firepower. That is an entirely different subject though.

They can still re sign him. What does it have to do with the trade?

Hint - nothing
- Just5

They could. That they could re-sign him doesn't have anything to do with the trade. The cap space saved, does.

Oh weird then why are they in Lehigh? How come teams weren't asking for our 10 Lehigh players and offering a first round pick? This is (frank)ing stupid. Noone in Lehigh currently is as good as him. Our best forward was voroybov and he couldn't stick with the team this year twice
- bulet13

It’s what another poster wrote earlier in the thread. Yes it was hilarious

There is no issue. Yes it absolutely does matter what it would cost to re-sign him. It's an element to the trade. The savings are obvious.
- MJL

Simmonds is a UFA....if Simmonds had 1+ years left on his contract I would agree with you that cap savings played a part, but his salary is off NO MATTER the trade or not.

What if for some reason Simmonds comes back to Philly and signs in the offseason...how did the trade save cap space?

It’s what another poster wrote earlier in the thread. Yes it was hilarious
- Just5

Oh good

Bill: "If he is a healthier, less combustible version of Steve Downie for the next 4-5 years, he can help the Flyers."

If

I strongly disliked Steve Downie.
- Scoob

I'm assuming this is what you didn't like about him?

Simmonds is a UFA....if Simmonds had 1+ years left on his contract I would agree with you that cap savings played a part, but his salary is off NO MATTER the trade or not.

What if for some reason Simmonds comes back to Philly and signs in the offseason...how did the trade save cap space?
- Glak18

You're completely disconnecting not re-signing Simmonds as a factor in making the trade. They decided to use the cap space that it would've take to re-sign Simmonds and use it in a different direction. It's part of the trade. You and your counterpart are using zero logic here.What do you think the GM is referring to with this statement?

"Cap space is finite, and ultimately that’s what it came down to for me,” Fletcher said. “We’ll have opportunities this summer to look at different needs, and we have some different areas that we still want to address.”

Oh weird then why are they in Lehigh? How come teams weren't asking for our 10 Lehigh players and offering a first round pick? This is (frank)ing stupid. Noone in Lehigh currently is as good as him. Our best forward was voroybov and he couldn't stick with the team this year twice
- bulet13

Because the coaches are stupid

Vecchione - Nope
Rubtsov - Nope
Sushko - Nope
Strome - Nope
Laberge - Nope
Twarynski - Nope
Kase - Nope
Bunnaman - Nope
Goulbourne - Nope
Bardreau - Nope
Froese - Nope
Carey - Nope

Just not a big market for a pending UFA with diminishing skill. IMO the return is about right. Hartman is a potential 20 goal scorer on a very cheap contract. a probable future 3rd pick is a nice asset.

I'm assuming this is what you didn't like about him?
- Glak18

A comparison to Steve Downie is troubling.

You're completely disconnecting not re-signing Simmonds as a factor in making the trade. They decided to use the cap space that it would've take to re-sign Simmonds and use it in a different direction. It's part of the trade. You and your counterpart are using zero logic here.What do you think the GM is referring to with this statement?

"Cap space is finite, and ultimately that’s what it came down to for me,” Fletcher said. “We’ll have opportunities this summer to look at different needs, and we have some different areas that we still want to address.”
- MJL

I am not disconnecting anything, there are only 2 possible scenarios here:

1) Trade Simmonds for assets

or

2) Don't trade Simmonds and let him walk

There is no 3. That quote is 100% stating that Simmonds is not in future plans, not why they traded him. You keep thinking this is all about trading Simmonds or re-signing him...again re-signing him was never an option. They could of gotten offers they didn't like and kept him, does not mean he is re-signing. Not sure why you can't grasp that simple understanding.

A comparison to Steve Downie is troubling.
- Scoob

Other than Downie's temperament and stupid penalties, he was a decent bottom 6 player in the NHL. You could say the same thing about Steve Ott.

A comparison to Steve Downie is troubling.
- Scoob

I liked Downie’s skill and how he played with heart. I didn’t like the stupid stuff that went over the line/cost unnecessary penalties or the fact that he missed a lot of time injured. I think Bill addressed both of those concerns with his comparison.

It’s what another poster wrote earlier in the thread. Yes it was hilarious
- Just5

Oh okay didn't see that haha

I liked Downie’s skill and how he played with heart. I didn’t like the stupid stuff that went over the line/cost unnecessary penalties or the fact that he missed a lot of time injured. I think Bill addressed both of those concerns with his comparison.
- NC Flyers Fan

I actually see a little Hartnell in Hartman, not just in name.

Note: Comparing a player to another does not mean calling that player the same. This is done since some people still don't understand that.

I am not disconnecting anything, there are only 2 possible scenarios here:

1) Trade Simmonds for assets

or

2) Don't trade Simmonds and let him walk

There is no 3. That quote is 100% stating that Simmonds is not in future plans, not why they traded him. You keep thinking this is all about trading Simmonds or re-signing him...again re-signing him was never an option. They could of gotten offers they didn't like and kept him, does not mean he is re-signing. Not sure why you can't grasp that simple understanding.
- Glak18

You keep trying to debate issues that aren't up for debate. Fletcher's statement is direct evidence that a factor in deciding to trade Simmonds is so they can use the cap space that it would've taken to re-sign Simmonds and use it in a different manner. It's a no brainer. The cap space saved is the issue, most likely the biggest issue in why they traded him.

How can you seriously state that re-signing him was not an option? LOL. It was an option until the second they traded him!

This simple understanding that you absurdly claim that I can't grasp, is not part of my premise. I have not in any way stated that if they kept him that meant that they we're going to re-sign him. It was quite obvious, based on all the reports and due to the fact that by this point they have not agreed to a deal that even if he wasn't traded, they weren't going to re-sign him. If they were going to re-sign him, it would've happen by that point. See if you can grasp that!

You keep trying to debate issues that aren't up for debate. Fletcher's statement is direct evidence that a factor in deciding to trade Simmonds is so they can use the cap space that it would've taken to re-sign Simmonds and use it in a different manner. It's a no brainer. The cap space saved is the issue, most likely the biggest issue in why they traded him.

How can you seriously state that re-signing him was not an option? LOL. It was an option until the second they traded him!

This simple understanding that you absurdly claim that I can't grasp, is not part of my premise. I have not in any way stated that if they kept him that meant that they we're going to re-sign him. It was quite obvious, based on all the reports and due to the fact that by this point they have not agreed to a deal that even if he wasn't traded, they weren't going to re-sign him. If they were going to re-sign him, it would've happen by that point. See if you can grasp that!
- MJL

I don't care about your delusional premise, the fact is you just reiterated what I said 3 times now. Simmonds was NOT re-signing whether he was traded or not, you can not save what isn't going to be there. End of discussion.

Bill, Fantastic write-up about Simmer and the personal stories. These highlights embody the Flyers legacy. Many thanks.

How much better is McDavid than Matthews on 1 to 10 scale?
- DrMidnite

1.5

I don't care about your delusional premise, the fact is you just reiterated what I said 3 times now. Simmonds was NOT re-signing whether he was traded or not, you can not save what isn't going to be there. End of discussion.
- Glak18

This cracks me up. In a cap environment, forecasting future cap costs is everything. Evaluating your team and deciding how you want to spend future cap space is everything. You're embarrassing yourself by calling my premise delusional when my premise is backed up by the comments of the GM. Saving the cap space to use in a different manner is a big part of the reason why they chose not to re-sign Simmonds. Once they decided not to re-sign they then obviously decided to trade him to get some value. In a cap situation you absolutely save by something not being there in the future. That something is a player taking up cap space. Your responses are comical and completely lacking in logic. You're just so focused on something else that you're blind to it.

This cracks me up. In a cap environment, forecasting future cap costs is everything. Evaluating your team and deciding how you want to spend future cap space is everything. You're embarrassing yourself by calling my premise delusional when my premise is backed up by the comments of the GM. Saving the cap space to use in a different manner is the entire reason why they chose not to re-sign Simmonds. Once they decided not to re-sign they then obviously decided to trade him. In a cap situation you absolutely save by something not being there in the future. That something is a player taking up cap space. Your responses are comical and completely lacking in logic. You're just so focused on something else that you're blind to it.
- MJL

I don't feel like backreading. Both of you restate your original positions. ty

This isn’t an amazing trade and it isn’t terrible. It’s a very little under equal. I think the Flyers didn’t get full value but close enough to kinda put up your hands and say- ok

This cracks me up. In a cap environment, forecasting future cap costs is everything. Evaluating your team and deciding how you want to spend future cap space is everything. You're embarrassing yourself by calling my premise delusional when my premise is backed up by the comments of the GM. Saving the cap space to use in a different manner is the entire reason why they chose not to re-sign Simmonds. Once they decided not to re-sign they then obviously decided to trade him. In a cap situation you absolutely save by something not being there in the future. Your responses are comical and completely lacking in logic.
- MJL

Remember the other night with Guile and discussing Simmonds leaving the ice...this is you now. Let that sink in....

You are literally putting together 2 separate actions and lumping them together to create your false narrative.

1) Cap Management

The moment they decided not to re-sign Simmonds that action ended, whether it was months ago or 2 mins before the TDL.

2) Trading Wayne Simmonds

They traded Simmonds and got some assets in return. The only way to think cap space savings plays a part in it is for the current contract, which is done at the end of the season. They traded a 3.9m contract for a 875K contract, a savings of roughly 3.1m THIS year. Of course they don't even save that since it is based off the daily accrue owed for the rest of the year.

Jori Lehtera was NOT traded, but the Flyers are freeing up 4.7m of cap space next year for not re-signing him....NOT because they didn't trade him.

I don't feel like backreading. Both of you restate your original positions. ty
- BenderRodriguez

Simple...

- Simmonds is a UFA.
- Simmonds was NOT re-signing in Philly whether he was traded today or not.
- Flyers receive 2 assets instead of letting him walk at the end of the year.

MJL believes the biggest part of the trade is the cap space the Flyers save from a contract Simmonds is not signing.