Let's consider Keith, Seabrook and Joki as locks for next year (for various/obvious reasons). Are ANY of the remaining players currently on this team worth keeping, or do you simply cut bait on all of them and try to start over?
- Chunk

I think Koekkoek is worth keeping - he is at least a decent 5/6 guy with a low cap hit. Murphy is OK. Gustafsson is a good deal with his offensive game and his relatively low cap hit. Forsling and Dahlstrom can go.

If you have a chance to upgrade any of the D without selling off futures, or at least prospects with high potential and 1st/2nd round draft picks, then by all means go for it. Cap compliance is key as well, of course.

Hawks ideally need 2 solid defenders who are reliable and consistent in their own end, but realistically they may be able to acquire only one. If that is the case, try for a top 4 talent with the possible other acquisition as a 3rd pair type.

Besides Keith, Seabrook, and Jokiharju, I assume Gustafsson is a lock and wouldn't be moved until next year's TDL.

Keith - Jokiharju
LD - RD
Gustafsson - Seabrook

2nd pair seems to be the one to fill. My guess is Murphy is one of them which is fine if another top 4 can be acquired to be his partner.

7th man between Koekkoek, Dahlstrom, and Forsling. Leaning towards Koekkoek at the moment.
- AEL_Fox

I know people say Seabrook can't be moved, but I think we've seen everyone can be moved in the right deal. What do you think it would take to move him? Hawks retain 1.2/1.5 million, add a 2nd + a good prospect? There are teams that will have the cap headroom.

As usual, the numbers tell the story about this team.

Shots on goal against per game - 35.17
Goals against per game - 3.72
Goals for per game - 3.34

For the Hawks to get any better they need to learn to play defense or it's all futile.

Without suppressing any shots against, a goalie would have to have a .942 svpct right now for this team to keep GA at 2 per game. And since Vasilevskiy at the top of the NHL in svpct now has a .930 (which is phenomenal BTW), we know that will never happen.

Time and time again I have said it starts up front, and if your forwards can't keep the puck in the O zone, or win NZ battles, they chase the play all night. When it gets back to the D zone, the stick poke D man to man system is just worthless.

Do they need goons? No. They need balance with the skill. Guys who can start rushes by owning the NZ and keep O zone time alive. They have one guy who consistently does that and its Caggiula. Not enough.

They need D guys who can hold the puck in at the points and clear bodies and pucks from the slot and the crease. They arguably have exactly NONE of those guys.

This team has no business in the playoffs.
- Return of the Roar

Of the teams fighting for the WC Wild Card - which teams do have any business in the tournament?

Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Vancouver, Arizona, Edmonton, Chicago - all flawed, very little depth, most without quality defensive presence.

Chicago is a bubble team - on the same bubble as the others.

Hmmm so you are going to honor him by continually bringing him up? Hope that works out for you guys.
- BetweenTheDots

It does, thanks. But I'll remember that line whenever someone brings up Old Man Wirtz and the bad old days.

I know people say Seabrook can't be moved, but I think we've seen everyone can be moved in the right deal. What do you think it would take to move him? Hawks retain 1.2/1.5 million, add a 2nd + a good prospect? There are teams that will have the cap headroom.
- breadbag

What do you want in return?

I know people say Seabrook can't be moved, but I think we've seen everyone can be moved in the right deal. What do you think it would take to move him? Hawks retain 1.2/1.5 million, add a 2nd + a good prospect? There are teams that will have the cap headroom.
- breadbag

Not so sure Joki is a lock out of camp next year. JC doesn't like him, or his game. He was top pair when Q was here, but never has been trusted with more than third pair minutes by JC.

Unless something changes, I wouldn't put him in as a lock, much less first pair with Keith, for next season. I think the whole thing is wide open.

I think Koekkoek is worth keeping - he is at least a decent 5/6 guy with a low cap hit. Murphy is OK. Gustafsson is a good deal with his offensive game and his relatively low cap hit. Forsling and Dahlstrom can go.
- EbonyRaptor

Imo, they need a top pair guy, and a 2nd pair guy. My fear is they'll over-reach for them, either thru trade or FA.

I've read arguments being made that Kane should win the Hart because it is supposed to be awarded to the player who is most valuable to his team. The argument goes that Kane is more valuable to the Hawks winning than Kucherov is to the Lightning winning, and/or Kucherov has better players around him to elevate his scoring totals. Both of those things are probably true and supported by statistics. The Hawks have 214 non-shootout win goals and Kane has contributed to 94 of them (44%), whereas TB has 246 non-shootout win goals and Kucherov has contributed to 104 of them (42%). But, if that is the argument used to move Kane ahead of Kucherov for the Hart Trophy, then McDavid should win the award because he has contributed on 50% of non-shootout win goals for Edmonton and he has even less elite level team mates to help him get points than either Kane or Kucherov.

Imo, they need a top pair guy, and a 2nd pair guy. My fear is they'll over-reach for them, either thru trade or FA.
- mohel

I agree on the need. Based on Bowman's comments, it sounds like they will soldier on without them as long as they keep seeing progress in his eyes. Which means next year is likely more of the same, mostly hoping one or two of the young guys take a step.

You can't go out and get a number one D man anyway, you have to draft and develop them. They don't go UFA generally speaking unless they are on the back 9 of their career (Karlsson) or you have to usually give one to get one (Weber/Subban) or give up a number one center (Jones/Johnassen). Those are things the Hawks don't have to give up.

What do you want in return?
- LAHawk

Difficult to say, I'd hope they just get some spare parts that could be buried.

Connor Murphy like stats at about Connor Murphy like price tag with roughly Connor Murphy upside.

Coin toss.

Question is if Manson has more upside.
- Return of the Roar

Pedigree? Charlie is a legend. He put up some pretty nice numbers last year and he does have more snarl than Murphy.

Imo, they need a top pair guy, and a 2nd pair guy. My fear is they'll over-reach for them, either thru trade or FA.
- mohel

I hope Stan can sign UFA Ben Chiarot this summer. He would be a good upgrade over both Forsling and Dahlstrom at LD.

Keith-Jokiharju
Chiarot-Murphy
Koekkoek-Gustafsson
Seabrook

I know people say Seabrook can't be moved, but I think we've seen everyone can be moved in the right deal. What do you think it would take to move him? Hawks retain 1.2/1.5 million, add a 2nd + a good prospect? There are teams that will have the cap headroom.
- breadbag

For Seabrook, that return looks like a good start. Think the Hawks would need to retain closer to $2MM and maybe take a roster player back if number of contracts is a factor for the other team.

Not impossible to move him but I'd wager he retires a Hawk simply because he isn't going to waive. Same with Keith.

I agree on the need. Based on Bowman's comments, it sounds like they will soldier on without them as long as they keep seeing progress in his eyes. Which means next year is likely more of the same, mostly hoping one or two of the young guys take a step.

You can't go out and get a number one D man anyway, you have to draft and develop them. They don't go UFA generally speaking unless they are on the back 9 of their career (Karlsson) or you have to usually give one to get one (Weber/Subban) or give up a number one center (Jones/Johnassen). Those are things the Hawks don't have to give up.
- hereismike1

Agree in every respect. You can't get a legit top pair guy. A 2nd pair guy, perhaps, but likely needs an overpay. I don't wanna do that.

Let's consider Keith, Seabrook and Joki as locks for next year (for various/obvious reasons). Are ANY of the remaining players currently on this team worth keeping, or do you simply cut bait on all of them and try to start over?
- Chunk

So, I think before they make any decisions, they need to start with what does the team want from its defensive players in the way of scheme. That defines the type of players they need to fill the roles to carry out that scheme.

My fear is that they believe that a "disruptive" way to play the game going forward would be to make the D all about offense. That belief seems to reflect their choices in the draft and in trades thus far.

The challenge is that if that is the case, Seabrook has no meaningful role in it, and Keith may be able to adapt, but will he adjust his game and buy in? Beyond that most of the other talent just seems too raw, and in some cases too rushed to the NHL to know what is possible yet.

It would be far easier, and far more effective in my opinion to imagine a D scheme that is more traditional in nature - a puck mover and a shooter on each of the top 4 and a shutdown pair as the bottom pairing with a focus on keeping the house clean first.

Trouble is that they haven't really drafted personnel for that approach.

Without knowing where you want to go it is hard to know what to do to make it happen.

And again - let's be honest - Seabrook is going nowhere. He does not want to leave and no team will eat his deal AND give back anything but another lousy contract in return. That hinders a lot of flexibility in finding the right players no matter what direction they go.

I hope Stan can sign UFA Ben Chiarot this summer. He would be a good upgrade over both Forsling and Dahlstrom at LD.

Keith-Jokiharju
Chiarot-Murphy
Koekkoek-Gustafsson
Seabrook
- EbonyRaptor

Is he a 2nd pair guy on a Cup contender, or just the Hawks. I'd rather not pay big money for the latter.

As usual, the numbers tell the story about this team.

Shots on goal against per game - 35.17
Goals against per game - 3.72
Goals for per game - 3.34

For the Hawks to get any better they need to learn to play defense or it's all futile.

Without suppressing any shots against, a goalie would have to have a .942 svpct right now for this team to keep GA at 2 per game. And since Vasilevskiy at the top of the NHL in svpct now has a .930 (which is phenomenal BTW), we know that will never happen.

Time and time again I have said it starts up front, and if your forwards can't keep the puck in the O zone, or win NZ battles, they chase the play all night. When it gets back to the D zone, the stick poke D man to man system is just worthless.

Do they need goons? No. They need balance with the skill. Guys who can start rushes by owning the NZ and keep O zone time alive. They have one guy who consistently does that and its Caggiula. Not enough.

They need D guys who can hold the puck in at the points and clear bodies and pucks from the slot and the crease. They arguably have exactly NONE of those guys.

This team has no business in the playoffs.
- Return of the Roar

Are these stats for the whole season though, because they are a vastly different team than at the beginning of the year. What are those same stats from the past 2 months?

Are these stats for the whole season though, because they are a vastly different team than at the beginning of the year. What are those same stats from the past 2 months?
- ToewsdNKanefusd

No idea - haven't done that math.

I would agree they are vastly different in that the D is even worse and they are scoring more goals but the eye test and the standings suggest they traded D for O with no net gain.

I'll try and grind the 1/1-now stats and see what that says.

I hope Stan can sign UFA Ben Chiarot this summer. He would be a good upgrade over both Forsling and Dahlstrom at LD.

Keith-Jokiharju
Chiarot-Murphy
Koekkoek-Gustafsson
Seabrook
- EbonyRaptor

I like Chiarot but not sure if he is top 4 material. A solid 3rd pair, though. Could be wrong, though.

Either way, sign me up. Might be worth it if Colliton decides Jokiharju needs more time in Rockford and he keeps Keith and Seabrook together.

Agree in every respect. You can't get a legit top pair guy. A 2nd pair guy, perhaps, but likely needs an overpay. I don't wanna do that.
- mohel

I would like to see them bring up Carlsson for a look see, but I guess that won't happen until the Hawks are officially "out" of the playoffs. Hopefully if Stan trades Anisimov at the end of the year, he could be packaged in order to get a second pairing guy.

It does, thanks. But I'll remember that line whenever someone brings up Old Man Wirtz and the bad old days.
- mohel

Hahaha hahaha hahaha, okay

Hahaha hahaha hahaha, okay
- BetweenTheDots

Not so sure Joki is a lock out of camp next year. JC doesn't like him, or his game. He was top pair when Q was here, but never has been trusted with more than third pair minutes by JC.

Unless something changes, I wouldn't put him in as a lock, much less first pair with Keith, for next season. I think the whole thing is wide open.
- hereismike1

Other than the fact that he is playing top-line minutes in Rockfish - and learning the pro game there as a 19 year old - what evidence is there that Colliton doesn't like him?

How about - he's not ready for prime time yet - he still has a lot to learn - and unlike some other 19 year olds who may very well have had their careers limited by going directly from juniors to the Show - he will be better off developing in the top minor league into what the Hawks (including the head coach) assume will be a top-pairing defenseman?

I like that analysis better....

No idea - haven't done that math.

I would agree they are vastly different in that the D is even worse and they are scoring more goals but the eye test and the standings suggest they traded D for O with no net gain.

I'll try and grind the 1/1-now stats and see what that says.
- Return of the Roar

I would agree that the eye test doesn't seem like they have improved on D, and the single game stats don't either I think (shots against and high danger chances against seem to not have changed). But I also don't think they are worse on D than earlier in the season. They seem the same to me on D, but that's why I wanted to know the stats from 1/1 to now.

I don't get this whole mantra of if they bring back the same defense there won't be any improvement. I think they aren't going to make any major splashes in free agency for any position. They have a bunch of young guys still learning the game. Does everyone think that none of the youth will improve? And if the forwards can improve at defense, that may help as well.

Are these stats for the whole season though, because they are a vastly different team than at the beginning of the year. What are those same stats from the past 2 months?
- ToewsdNKanefusd

1/1 to now in 23 games played which takes in the win streak as well as the losing streak:

W 12
L 11
Avg GA per game 4.08
Avg GF per game 4.00
Avg SOG against per game 36.65

Beginning of season to 12/31

W 15
L 26
Avg GA per game 3.25
Avg GF per game 3.63
Avg SOG against per game 34.8

Seems that they are giving up more shots, more goals and playing about .500 since New Year's.

I would say the data suggest not playing better. In fact, worse.