Hi, Sage, hope you're well. How do you explain the change in the Isles? The players looked like bad defensive players last year, now they don't.
- mohel

Trotz is a great coach - proved it in 3 cities now. I certainly don’t know that Colliton is - or will be. Maybe after a summer a full training camp....

But more to the point - which players - forward or defensemen - do you see having the ability to bequality defensive players?

That blue line that is better than ours had the highest goals against average last year.
- mohel

Individually yes, 3rd and 4th line are better than ours and that helps in tilting the ice. Yes there are coaches who suck, but most of us know coach Q doesn't suck and he couldn't do anything with these defenders. And we know Barry doesn't suck but please look up his rookie year as a coach, not so hot, but the org had faith in him.

And then Koekkoek floats off to the right of the net instead of staying on Brown to make sure the King can’t put a rebound back in. Which, of course, he did.
- StLBravesFan

I think he was worried about running over Corey like he did to Ward last month.

So after 10 years and 3 Cups in a hard-cap league - throw in only one (I yoinks) top-10 draft pick in that time - yes, some bad contracts trying to keep the run going, some bad cap and TDL moves - it’s not surprising that the cupboard in Chicago is a bit bare and inexperienced.

But to say “No clue. And no direction” is somewhat unfair and untrue, don’t you think? Even you seem to recognize that there is talent in the organization - yes, a couple of years out - more potential than proven, certainly....

The plan is to go with the youngsters, keep them developing below the pressure cooker in the Show (witness Jokiharju), make some hockey trades bringing in some more young talent (are you not happy with Strome over Schmaltz? Caggiula over Manning? Murphy over Hjalmarsson at this point in the latter’s career? The high potential of Beaudin over the “just a guyness” of Hartman?)

Please - the organization is not a disaster - bad hockey now, yes - hopefully leading to good hockey in the future.
- StLBravesFan

just read ten posts, yours is the most realistic

My point with the Isles was more focused on the possibility of improvement without wholesale changes, rather than an indictment of JC. But he has to give the firm message that this defensive effort is a ticket to the bench.
- mohel

Well that's what Q did and well it didn't work either.

I know they haven't played great defense or even good defense but yesterday's game was atrocious, 7 breakaways, (frank)ing 7, common man

I think he was worried about running over Corey like he did to Ward last month.
- BetweenTheDots

There was a redditor that postulated last night that one of our issues may actually be the guys focusing on/worrying too much about protecting Crow and not enough about just playing the game. It was in response to this comment about how poorly the team has played when Crow is in net since returning, both the first time and the most recent time.

We were playing fun hockey, were doing pretty well until Crow came back from his concussion the first time this season.
Then we plummeted.
Then Crow got concussed again, and soon we started getting better, started winning for fun.
Now Crow's back, and the team seems uninspired again and we allow ton of goals from poopty teams.
If it's a coincidence, it's a strange one.

Did make me wonder. . .

Individually yes, 3rd and 4th line are better than ours and that helps in tilting the ice. Yes there are coaches who suck, but most of us know coach Q doesn't suck and he couldn't do anything with these defenders. And we know Barry doesn't suck but please look up his rookie year as a coach, not so hot, but the org had faith in him.
- BetweenTheDots

The Isles give up 1.25 goals fewer per game than last year. Largely the same players MINUS Tavares. Same defensemen. I imagine a year ago, Islander fans thought their players were not capable of playing defense.

Totally different scenario though.

Well that's what Q did and well it didn't work either.

I know they haven't played great defense or even good defense but yesterday's game was atrocious, 7 breakaways, (frank)ing 7, common man
- BetweenTheDots

Who was talking about yesterday? I'm using the Islanders as a hopeful example that change is possible quickly. If you wanna just see doom, have at it.

The Isles give up 1.25 goals fewer per game than last year. Largely the same players MINUS Tavares. Same defensemen. I imagine a year ago, Islander fans thought their players were not capable of playing defense.

Totally different scenario though.
- mohel

Or maybe islander fans thought their coach sucked, and apparently he did.

I think if Barry was coaching this team right now he'd be pulling his hair out😁

Or maybe islander fans thought their coach sucked, and apparently he did.

I think if Barry was coaching this team right now he'd be pulling his hair out😁
- BetweenTheDots

Right. Or they'd have a far better goals against.

Who was talking about yesterday? I'm using the Islanders as a hopeful example that change is possible quickly. If you wanna just see doom, have at it.
- mohel

It's not doom i see, it's dumb, not you, hockey being played, it's so frustrating to me at times. I've enjoyed many of the games they've played, than this?

JC has his hands full and i thought you were comparing Barry to JC right now, i didn't realize you were giving JC a chance to coach this team.

Jeez-a-lou (that one's for you GP) - seems I picked the right game to miss. It normally takes 3 to 4 games for the Kings to amass 6 goals.

And then ... Perlini ... twice? Kinda sounds like an alternative universe game. Just curious - did Perlini's goals give rise to some hope that possibly he had a breakthrough or were they of the happenstance variety?

Did Kane look "floaty" again? Yeah he got the GWG against Anaheim but he didn't look "right" the whole game until that last minute of that game. Maybe he's dinged a bit or just mentally exhausted? It has to be draining to carry the team back into the playoff race only to lose to Colorado and Dallas last weekend which pretty much sealed the fate for making the playoffs.

They need some 101 classes on basic defense. Its a joke. Total fire drill out there. My how far this team has fallen.
- z1990z

The team made significant progress with their top 6 this season, if they can make the same improvement with their bottom 6 they’ll be a lot closer to being competitive.

"It was just a sloppy game overall in Anaheim and a sloppy game overall here," defenseman Duncan Keith said. "I don’t know why. I certainly don’t think we’re in a position where we can’t respect our opponents. If anything, they should not be having respect for us the way we’ve been playing."

its been the story of this year and last year: sloppy, careless and undisciplined while routinely getting outplayed in the 1st period...
- bogiedoc

Before 2009 one could tell how much respect the opposition had for the hawks by watching how many teams started the spare goaltender or some rookie just brought up. It was more times than not. Should be interesting to see going forward.

Who was talking about yesterday? I'm using the Islanders as a hopeful example that change is possible quickly. If you wanna just see doom, have at it.
- mohel

Your point about Islanders is spot on and easy to follow....not sure why confusion about it. I'm willing the give JC a camp to see if the can/improve on D side of puck

Jeez-a-lou (that one's for you GP) - seems I picked the right game to miss. It normally takes 3 to 4 games for the Kings to amass 6 goals.

And then ... Perlini ... twice? Kinda sounds like an alternative universe game. Just curious - did Perlini's goals give rise to some hope that possibly he had a breakthrough or were they of the happenstance variety?

Did Kane look "floaty" again? Yeah he got the GWG against Anaheim but he didn't look "right" the whole game until that last minute of that game. Maybe he's dinged a bit or just mentally exhausted? It has to be draining to carry the team back into the playoff race only to lose to Colorado and Dallas last weekend which pretty much sealed the fate for making the playoffs.
- EbonyRaptor

I think last nights goals showed Perlini has some skill, but I don't really see it as a breakthrough. Perlini has some solid skills. He's a very good skater and he has a great shot and quick release. The downsides in his game are he doesn't seem to have great hockey sense, he doesn't appear to understand what do do in some circumstances and maybe worst of all he appears unmotivated if not lazy. Players who don't have great hockey sense can be coached to play defensively. With his skating skills I'd like to see the team work with him to play a specific role, a fourth line checking forward and penalty killer. Maybe if given a role he becomes motivated? If not there's plenty ot time to get rid of bim. The Hawks are in a position to work with players to get them to improve they are not in a position to give up on raw talent.

Your point about Islanders is spot on and easy to follow....not sure why confusion about it. I'm willing the give JC a camp to see if the can/improve on D side of puck
- dpard

Me, too.

I think last nights goals showed Perlini has some skill, but I don't really see it as a breakthrough. Perlini has some solid skills. He's a very good skater and he has a great shot and quick release. The downsides in his game are he doesn't seem to have great hockey sense, he doesn't appear to understand what do do in some circumstances and maybe worst of all he appears unmotivated if not lazy. Players who don't have great hockey sense can be coached to play defensively. With his skating skills I'd like to see the team work with him to play a specific role, a fourth line checking forward and penalty killer. Maybe if given a role he becomes motivated? If not there's plenty ot time to get rid of bim. The Hawks are in a position to work with players to get them to improve they are not in a position to give up on raw talent.
- paulr

Agree on Perlini. He's playing on a team whose culture is offense and skill. A shift in culture toward defense might give him an avenue to usefulness. There's no downside at this point to your suggestion. Just don't tell Elbows.

I think last nights goals showed Perlini has some skill, but I don't really see it as a breakthrough. Perlini has some solid skills. He's a very good skater and he has a great shot and quick release. The downsides in his game are he doesn't seem to have great hockey sense, he doesn't appear to understand what do do in some circumstances and maybe worst of all he appears unmotivated if not lazy. Players who don't have great hockey sense can be coached to play defensively. With his skating skills I'd like to see the team work with him to play a specific role, a fourth line checking forward and penalty killer. Maybe if given a role he becomes motivated? If not there's plenty ot time to get rid of bim. The Hawks are in a position to work with players to get them to improve they are not in a position to give up on raw talent.
- paulr

Thanks Paulie. A top half of 1st round physical talent but so far that's where it stops. I agree - too early to give up and really nothing to lose by giving him more time. Training camp should be huge for him next summer. He needs to know his free skate because he was a 1st rounder is over - either show improvement in TC or move him to Rockford and if he gets claimed on waivers so be it.

So after 10 years and 3 Cups in a hard-cap league - throw in only one (I yoinks) top-10 draft pick in that time - yes, some bad contracts trying to keep the run going, some bad cap and TDL moves - it’s not surprising that the cupboard in Chicago is a bit bare and inexperienced.

But to say “No clue. And no direction” is somewhat unfair and untrue, don’t you think? Even you seem to recognize that there is talent in the organization - yes, a couple of years out - more potential than proven, certainly....

The plan is to go with the youngsters, keep them developing below the pressure cooker in the Show (witness Jokiharju), make some hockey trades bringing in some more young talent (are you not happy with Strome over Schmaltz? Caggiula over Manning? Murphy over Hjalmarsson at this point in the latter’s career? The high potential of Beaudin over the “just a guyness” of Hartman?)

Please - the organization is not a disaster - bad hockey now, yes - hopefully leading to good hockey in the future.
- StLBravesFan

The organization is not a disaster, but Stan's drafting of defensemen is. Here's his record since his first draft in 2010, including the rounds they were taken.

2010
2- Justin Holl
2- Stephen Johns
6- Nick Mattson

2011
2- Adam Clendenning
3- Michael Paliotta
3- Klas Dahlbeck
6- Sam Jardine

2012
2- Dillon Fournier
5- Travis Brown

2013
2- Carl Dahlstrom
4- Robin Norell
7- Robin Press

2014
5- Luc Snuggerud
5- Andres Soderberg

2015
3- Dennis Gilbert
4- Ryan Shea
6- Joni Tuulola

6 years of drafting, only 1 player on the current roster, and his ability remains questionable. His D drafts in the last few years may have improved, but 6 years of whiffs is why the Hawks are where they are now.

So the Kings had lost 10 straight and the Hawks needed this game playing for their lives and....pfft...

I would think the Sharks will blow them out tonight at home.

Stan's got a big offseason ahead of him...starting with the defense. Of course that was the case last offseason and Brandon Manning was brought in to save the day. So we'll see what happens.

So the Kings had lost 10 straight and the Hawks needed this game playing for their lives and....pfft...

I would think the Sharks will blow them out tonight at home.

Stan's got a big offseason ahead of him...starting with the defense. Of course that was the case last offseason and Brandon Manning was brought in to save the day. So we'll see what happens.
- DK002

They weren't playing for their playoff lives. That ended last weekend.

They weren't playing for their playoff lives. That ended last weekend.
- mohel

agree...all air went out of the "men of four feathers" balloon...

now losers of 3 of 4 and allowed 30 goals in their last 6 for a snappy 5 GA/GM...

don't expect much different with a BTB game vs sharks tonight and get home plane ride awaiting

The organization is not a disaster, but Stan's drafting of defensemen is. Here's his record since his first draft in 2010, including the rounds they were taken.

2010
2- Justin Holl
2- Stephen Johns
6- Nick Mattson

2011
2- Adam Clendenning
3- Michael Paliotta
3- Klas Dahlbeck
6- Sam Jardine

2012
2- Dillon Fournier
5- Travis Brown

2013
2- Carl Dahlstrom
4- Robin Norell
7- Robin Press

2014
5- Luc Snuggerud
5- Andres Soderberg

2015
3- Dennis Gilbert
4- Ryan Shea
6- Joni Tuulola

6 years of drafting, only 1 player on the current roster, and his ability remains questionable. His D drafts in the last few years may have improved, but 6 years of whiffs is why the Hawks are where they are now.
- scottak

but to be fair i don't think other teams are that much better; drafting and developing NHL dman is just really difficult...

the last homegrown dman was hammy...this and the development record since is none-the-less very poor.

it looks like the bottom 4 teams will be sens, kings, ducks, and wings..

I don't see the hawks challenging unless they go into another death spiral...

hawks looked to finish somewhere between 5 and 8 from the bottom.