Upon revisiting 2001, I have come to the conclusion that Saves The Day is better, way better, than The Get Up Kids.
- jmatchett383

good debate. They are very close in my opinion.

That may be the only time someone has implied that I’m trendy.

Thanks?
- NC Flyers Fan

Trendyyyyy

Yeah see I think the whole argument of Hart being the only reason is a bit crazy. I don't want to get into the binary thinking where if I don't say Hart is the reason then that only means he meant nothing, it was obviously between the two.

Goaltending was a major issue with the team, but some of the same goaltenders who were part of the problem early have become adequate now. Elliott played well before his first injury, but the team couldn't win. Stolarz had his issues as well, but Hart gets called up and became a possible backup before getting traded. On the other side the team went through a bad stretch WITH Hart in net, Hart still played well, but the team couldn't win. Clearly the team in front of the goaltenders has improved or they wouldn't be winning games.

Next you have 1B major issue which was the play of Provorov AND Ghost. Both were playing at an AHL level of mistakes and having them play 20+ minutes a night at that level, most teams would lose too.

Special teams was a major reason as well. The team used the SAME strategy and formation they did last year, that was successful, for the first half of the season, yet it struggled.The players stopped going to what was successful and just leaned on point shots, which weren't getting through most of the time.

Now you have one of the biggest issues that plagued the team early and that was team wide effort. They weren't skating hard and they were losing most battles. Magically the team's effort increased with the coaching change and the call up of Hart. Add in the fact that most nights most players looked like they were all playing different games and again magically the change of coach and call up Hart and the team started to look more in sync. Maybe the team got more confidence knowing Hart was in net, yet that doesn't explain how the team still plays that way and wins when Hart isn't in net.

Now are the Flyers still making mistakes, of course they are. Every team is going to make mistakes. I can go through any Tampa game this year and show you dozens of mistakes and where Vasilevskiy has bailed the team out over and over. I know people don't want to accept it, but Tampa's bottom pair defensemen are trash, not better trash...just straight up trash. Did people really not watch any Washington games last year? Their defense was a cringe-fest during the season and the playoffs. They won the cup, how does that make those mistakes disappear?

So the team loses and the team and coach sucks, but when they win the team and coach still sucks. I'm not calling the Flyers a great team, but wow perfection must be the only thing that will satisfy everyone. Then again the Flyers could go 82-0 and I guarantee there will be someone complaining the lines are what they would do or their favorite player is getting less time than another player.
- Glak18

TL;BR

I disagree. Sanheim's play had deteriorated to the point where he needed to be taken out of the lineup and sent back down to the AHL to reset. It clearly worked.

Veterans were used as stop gap players while young players developed.
- MJL

Like the first two months of this season where Sanheim clearly hadn't developed enough for a top 4 role ahead of veterans like Hagg and MacDonald and Folin.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...e,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame

Then magically as soon as Rick Wilson arrived and got put in charge of the D pairings, it turned out that Sanheim was ready for 20+ minutes a game. But if that had been tried in October or November, it would have been a disaster. Luckily Hak saved us from seeing that happen.

TL;BR
- Tomahawk

Sorry twitter age of ADHD.

Long story short: People make up things to fit narrative

Yeah see I think the whole argument of Hart being the only reason is a bit crazy. I don't want to get into the binary thinking where if I don't say Hart is the reason then that only means he meant nothing, it was obviously between the two.

Goaltending was a major issue with the team, but some of the same goaltenders who were part of the problem early have become adequate now. Elliott played well before his first injury, but the team couldn't win. Stolarz had his issues as well, but Hart gets called up and became a possible backup before getting traded. On the other side the team went through a bad stretch WITH Hart in net, Hart still played well, but the team couldn't win. Clearly the team in front of the goaltenders has improved or they wouldn't be winning games.

Next you have 1B major issue which was the play of Provorov AND Ghost. Both were playing at an AHL level of mistakes and having them play 20+ minutes a night at that level, most teams would lose too.

Special teams was a major reason as well. The team used the SAME strategy and formation they did last year, that was successful, for the first half of the season, yet it struggled.The players stopped going to what was successful and just leaned on point shots, which weren't getting through most of the time.

Now you have one of the biggest issues that plagued the team early and that was team wide effort. They weren't skating hard and they were losing most battles. Magically the team's effort increased with the coaching change and the call up of Hart. Add in the fact that most nights most players looked like they were all playing different games and again magically the change of coach and call up Hart and the team started to look more in sync. Maybe the team got more confidence knowing Hart was in net, yet that doesn't explain how the team still plays that way and wins when Hart isn't in net.

Now are the Flyers still making mistakes, of course they are. Every team is going to make mistakes. I can go through any Tampa game this year and show you dozens of mistakes and where Vasilevskiy has bailed the team out over and over. I know people don't want to accept it, but Tampa's bottom pair defensemen are trash, not better trash...just straight up trash. Did people really not watch any Washington games last year? Their defense was a cringe-fest during the season and the playoffs. They won the cup, how does that make those mistakes disappear?

So the team loses and the team and coach sucks, but when they win the team and coach still sucks. I'm not calling the Flyers a great team, but wow perfection must be the only thing that will satisfy everyone. Then again the Flyers could go 82-0 and I guarantee there will be someone complaining the lines are what they would do or their favorite player is getting less time than another player.
- Glak18

They're not, but they're not awful either. They're middle of the road and recently improved goaltending has hidden their still existing faults.

I think it's possible. Mainly where we disagree is whether Sanheim plays an all around game.
- MJL

Of course, it’s possible. It is also possible that Sanheim someday plays an all-around game. Then it will be an all-around defensemen competition for the “best.”

Like the first two months of this season where Sanheim clearly hadn't developed enough for a top 4 role ahead of veterans like Hagg and MacDonald and Folin.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...e,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame

Then magically as soon as Rick Wilson arrived and got put in charge of the D pairings, it turned out that Sanheim was ready for 20+ minutes a game. But if that had been tried in October or November, it would have been a disaster. Luckily Hak saved us from seeing that happen.
- Feanor

Let's not focus on Sanheim, let's focus on Myers and how he is being destroyed by Gordon now only playing 16:34. Also dummy Gordon won't play Morin because it is obvious he should be playing 19 minutes a game.

Amirite coach?

We talk about Frost but Farabee is pretty skilled


https://mobile.twitter.co...tatus/1102046708718923776
- wcorvette

OK, that was just sick.

Sorry twitter age of ADHD.

Long story short: People make up things to fit narrative
- Glak18

Nah, I read it, and agreed with most of it.

Let's not focus on Sanheim, let's focus on Myers and how he is being destroyed by Gordon now only playing 16:34. Also dummy Gordon won't play Morin because it is obvious he should be playing 19 minutes a game.

Amirite coach?
- Glak18

Gordon isn't a dummy. 16:34 is a lot of ice time for a dman who has played a total of seven career NHL games, and Gordon made room for him by limiting MacDonald's minutes and then benching him. Morin has barely played hockey the past two years, so it's best to be careful with him. Any NHL time he gets in this season is a bonus in my view.

If you want to see evidence of a coach doing stuff dumb enough to earn a firing, you can look at how Hak was handing out ES ice time before Wilson arrived and took over the defense. Hagg was getting the 2nd most on the team, two and a half minutes more than Sanheim who's quite obviously a much better player. Anyone miss the days when Hagg was a top four or even a top pairing dman for this team? Or when Folin averaged more ES TOI than Gudas?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...1&sort=evTimeOnIcePerGame

OK, that was just sick.

- MBFlyerfan

So many jocks in the rafters after that one.

OK, that was just sick.

- MBFlyerfan

i can't wait for the both of them. get on with it!

i can't wait for the both of them. get on with it!
- hammarby31

yeah you think of them with TK, Patrick, Sanheim, Lindbolm, Provy, Myers etc...

Skill and speed...

We play Ottawa in one week from tonight. You can’t tell me Morin isn’t good enough to play one game against one of the worst teams in the league.

Absolutely, but I won't.
- jmatchett383

While I understand, I am disappointed...

Yeah see I think the whole argument of Hart being the only reason is a bit crazy. I don't want to get into the binary thinking where if I don't say Hart is the reason then that only means he meant nothing, it was obviously between the two.

Goaltending was a major issue with the team, but some of the same goaltenders who were part of the problem early have become adequate now. Elliott played well before his first injury, but the team couldn't win. Stolarz had his issues as well, but Hart gets called up and became a possible backup before getting traded. On the other side the team went through a bad stretch WITH Hart in net, Hart still played well, but the team couldn't win. Clearly the team in front of the goaltenders has improved or they wouldn't be winning games.

Next you have 1B major issue which was the play of Provorov AND Ghost. Both were playing at an AHL level of mistakes and having them play 20+ minutes a night at that level, most teams would lose too.

Special teams was a major reason as well. The team used the SAME strategy and formation they did last year, that was successful, for the first half of the season, yet it struggled.The players stopped going to what was successful and just leaned on point shots, which weren't getting through most of the time.

Now you have one of the biggest issues that plagued the team early and that was team wide effort. They weren't skating hard and they were losing most battles. Magically the team's effort increased with the coaching change and the call up of Hart. Add in the fact that most nights most players looked like they were all playing different games and again magically the change of coach and call up Hart and the team started to look more in sync. Maybe the team got more confidence knowing Hart was in net, yet that doesn't explain how the team still plays that way and wins when Hart isn't in net.

Now are the Flyers still making mistakes, of course they are. Every team is going to make mistakes. I can go through any Tampa game this year and show you dozens of mistakes and where Vasilevskiy has bailed the team out over and over. I know people don't want to accept it, but Tampa's bottom pair defensemen are trash, not better trash...just straight up trash. Did people really not watch any Washington games last year? Their defense was a cringe-fest during the season and the playoffs. They won the cup, how does that make those mistakes disappear?

So the team loses and the team and coach sucks, but when they win the team and coach still sucks. I'm not calling the Flyers a great team, but wow perfection must be the only thing that will satisfy everyone. Then again the Flyers could go 82-0 and I guarantee there will be someone complaining the lines are what they would do or their favorite player is getting less time than another player.
- Glak18

So I agree that goaltending was not the only problem that caused the team to lose so much at the beginning of the season. Neither is goaltending the only reason they are winning now. Teams are hardly ever perfect. The teams that do well play to their strengths and compete as a team.

Too much emphasis is placed on goaltending in the Flyer world. Can great goaltending cover defensive mistakes? Yes. Can poor goaltending cost a game? Yes, if that weakness is left exposed by the team.

And no, they won’t ever make everyone happy at once. Some people just aren’t happy when things are great.

We play Ottawa in one week from tonight. You can’t tell me Morin isn’t good enough to play one game against one of the worst teams in the league.
- SuperSchennBros

If they are back to 6 dmen by then who are you taking out - Hagg?

We play Ottawa in one week from tonight. You can’t tell me Morin isn’t good enough to play one game against one of the worst teams in the league.
- SuperSchennBros

If the forwards aren’t too depleted with injuries by then, I can see Gordon going with 7D vs Ottawa and giving Morin a start.

Nah, I read it, and agreed with most of it.
- Tomahawk

Oh I thought you meant Too long didnt read, wtf is tl;Br?

Of course, it’s possible. It is also possible that Sanheim someday plays an all-around game. Then it will be an all-around defensemen competition for the “best.”
- NC Flyers Fan

I think he already plays an all around game. Again, that's where it seems we disagree.

I think he already plays an all around game. Again, that's where it seems we disagree.
- MJL

Yes, just giving you a hard time about it.

They're not, but they're not awful either. They're middle of the road and recently improved goaltending has hidden their still existing faults.
- Scoob

This team has faults, but they are not a 7-16-5 team that we saw from November-January. If I remember correctly most of the time the goaltending didn't play terrible, they just didn't make the spectacular saves that was needed for this team to win. Outside of a few games lately, the Flyers have been playing well in front of the goalies and in the system.

This season was a team loss, not a goaltender loss. And you know what... If they continued to play terrible all season because this team just isn't talented enough, I'm fine with that.... but this team is obviously talented.

Yeah see I think the whole argument of Hart being the only reason is a bit crazy. I don't want to get into the binary thinking where if I don't say Hart is the reason then that only means he meant nothing, it was obviously between the two.

Goaltending was a major issue with the team, but some of the same goaltenders who were part of the problem early have become adequate now. Elliott played well before his first injury, but the team couldn't win. Stolarz had his issues as well, but Hart gets called up and became a possible backup before getting traded. On the other side the team went through a bad stretch WITH Hart in net, Hart still played well, but the team couldn't win. Clearly the team in front of the goaltenders has improved or they wouldn't be winning games.

Next you have 1B major issue which was the play of Provorov AND Ghost. Both were playing at an AHL level of mistakes and having them play 20+ minutes a night at that level, most teams would lose too.

Special teams was a major reason as well. The team used the SAME strategy and formation they did last year, that was successful, for the first half of the season, yet it struggled.The players stopped going to what was successful and just leaned on point shots, which weren't getting through most of the time.

Now you have one of the biggest issues that plagued the team early and that was team wide effort. They weren't skating hard and they were losing most battles. Magically the team's effort increased with the coaching change and the call up of Hart. Add in the fact that most nights most players looked like they were all playing different games and again magically the change of coach and call up Hart and the team started to look more in sync. Maybe the team got more confidence knowing Hart was in net, yet that doesn't explain how the team still plays that way and wins when Hart isn't in net.

Now are the Flyers still making mistakes, of course they are. Every team is going to make mistakes. I can go through any Tampa game this year and show you dozens of mistakes and where Vasilevskiy has bailed the team out over and over. I know people don't want to accept it, but Tampa's bottom pair defensemen are trash, not better trash...just straight up trash. Did people really not watch any Washington games last year? Their defense was a cringe-fest during the season and the playoffs. They won the cup, how does that make those mistakes disappear?

So the team loses and the team and coach sucks, but when they win the team and coach still sucks. I'm not calling the Flyers a great team, but wow perfection must be the only thing that will satisfy everyone. Then again the Flyers could go 82-0 and I guarantee there will be someone complaining the lines are what they would do or their favorite player is getting less time than another player.
- Glak18

That Bolded part is not true. I remember things as:

Season started with Pickard as starter and Pickard was awful.

Elliot came back and had a respectable 0.911sv% before getting injured. He was then out until just recently

Pickard came back in and still sucked, Neuvirth returned and was on and off getting reinjured frequently

Eventually we had Lyon start and he did not do well in his first start

Stolarz finally got his chance to shine and played well. Won us some games but ultimately got hurt again as well

Then Hart got called up and we started to win games, he had a bad game and Neuvirth stepped in until he got hurt again

That takes us to the start of the streak and the return of elliott

Like the first two months of this season where Sanheim clearly hadn't developed enough for a top 4 role ahead of veterans like Hagg and MacDonald and Folin.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...e,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame

Then magically as soon as Rick Wilson arrived and got put in charge of the D pairings, it turned out that Sanheim was ready for 20+ minutes a game. But if that had been tried in October or November, it would have been a disaster. Luckily Hak saved us from seeing that happen.
- Feanor

You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that I have disputed what the ice time usage is under different coaches. I have addressed the conservative nature of how Hakstol and Hextall developed players. Sanheim last season was not ready for 20+ minutes a game when he was being benched and his minutes reduced and sent back to the AHL.