I'd pass on Karlssson. His contract is too expensive and the Flyers are set moving forward on defense.
- MJL

He's a great defenseman. But he has had a very serious injury and is dinged as we speak. His game is speed and skating. I think he has slowed half a step. He is not physical but rather more finesse. I don't see a long term value for a 30 year old who is looking for max term and max dollars. I also want to see our home grown D develop. I'll take a pass on Karllson for 11 to 12 mil per.

i mean....go for it?
- eshake

Go look at the latter years of Paul Coffey, Phil Housley, Brian Leetch, Sergei Gonchar and Brian Campbell's careers. The only one to even make it close to 40 was Gonchar. Every single of one of them experienced major dropoffs by the age of 34-35. By the time they retired, they were barely a shadow of their former selves.

The rest of what you said is pre salary cap logic. You sign a player for big money, you invariably end up sacrificing elsewhere at some point, whether in cap dollars, expansion draft protection, roster spot, or all of the above.

Go look at the latter years of Paul Coffey, Phil Housley, Brian Leetch, Sergei Gonchar and Brian Campbell's careers. The only one to even make it close to 40 was Gonchar. Every single of one of them experienced major dropoffs by the age of 34-35. By the time they retired, they were barely a shadow of their former selves.

The rest of what you said is pre salary cap logic. You sign a player for big money, you invariably end up sacrificing elsewhere at some point, whether in cap dollars, expansion draft protection, roster spot, or all of the above.
- Tomahawk

i honestly must be mis-remembering how those players ended up. i just remember being like "how the f are these guys still playing and playing well". also i thought Neidermayer was older when he retired.

So...ok....effective until 35 of a 7 year contract? i dunno man, i still think it's worth it (but again, i love Karlsson so....)

I don't think the statement of "I don't know what the appeal was based on" needs further explanation.

On what basis did Voracek and his representation argue that the suspension should be reduced to one game. That's the point.
- MJL

If, by chance, you would be so kind as to allow me to speculate on that point...

Based on wording locations in the Mr. Bettman letter which I posted earlier, my educated guess would be that it was Voracek’s long and flawless record that was basis for the request to reduce the suspension from 2 games to 1. Bettman “acknowledges” his record before declaring his decision to uphold the DOPS ruling.

The ruling and appeal decision are more of the same...laughable inconsistentcy.

He scored 181 meaningless goals including 38 game winning goals and even leading the league one season in GW goals while he was in Philly. All meaningless.
- MJL

You always were a Carter apologist.

If, by chance, you would be so kind as to allow me to speculate on that point...

Based on wording locations in the Mr. Bettman letter which I posted earlier, my educated guess would be that it was Voracek’s long and flawless record that was basis for the request to reduce the suspension from 2 games to 1. Bettman “acknowledges” his record before declaring his decision to uphold the DOPS ruling.

The ruling and appeal decision are more of the same...laughable inconsistentcy.
- NC Flyers Fan

See, now we're having a conversation. I read an article that seemed to indicate that Voracek still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Again, not knowing what the appeal was based on, appealing because they disagree on how the hit was ruled on, would've been a mistake. Which was my original point. I would've come with exhibit A, the Malkin ruling and exhibit B, the Gabriel ruling. Both were worse actions in my opinion that received one game. That combined with Voracek's clean record through his entire career would've made a reasonable case for reduction to one game in my opinion.

You always were a Carter apologist.
- Lexington Flyer

Incorrect. What I was back then was a fan that was fully aware of just how good Jeff Carter was as a Flyers and disputed similar nonsense that was posted criticizing him as a player that we saw posted today.

i honestly must be mis-remembering how those players ended up. i just remember being like "how the f are these guys still playing and playing well". also i thought Neidermayer was older when he retired.

So...ok....effective until 35 of a 7 year contract? i dunno man, i still think it's worth it (but again, i love Karlsson so....)
- eshake

I like Karlsson too, but he doesn't fill a need.

The Flyers' blueline is no longer unproven potential. Ghost, Prov and Sanheim all have a track record of handling top-4/top-pair minutes now. Myers looks fantastic too, and his ceiling is as high as the others.

And then there's Yegor Zamula on the horizon. And Morin and Friedman.

Maybe there's a short term need for a veteran stop-gap... but that's not Erik Karlsson either.

I like Karlsson too, but he doesn't fill a need.

The Flyers' blueline is no longer unproven potential. Ghost, Prov and Sanheim all have a track record of handling top-4/top-pair minutes now. Myers looks fantastic too, and his ceiling is as high as the others.

And then there's Yegor Zamula on the horizon. And Morin and Friedman.

Maybe there's a short term need for a veteran stop-gap... but that's not Erik Karlsson either.
- Tomahawk

They'd be much better going in that direction in my opinion. Team wide I'd really like then to stay out of the UFA market and just let the team develop but I don't see that happening.

They'd be much better going in that direction in my opinion. Team wide I'd really like then to stay out of the UFA market and just let the team develop but I don't see that happening.
- MJL

Despite what the mandate was when he was hired, it seems like Fletch has a handle on the current situation and won't do anything crazy. And let's hope he learned his lesson from the things that went wrong in MIN, namely the big UFA contracts and NMCs he gave out.

bettman is a clown

See, now we're having a conversation. I read an article that seemed to indicate that Voracek still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Again, not knowing what the appeal was based on, appealing because they disagree on how the hit was ruled on, would've been a mistake. Which was my original point. I would've come with exhibit A, the Malkin ruling and exhibit B, the Gabriel ruling. Both were worse actions in my opinion that received one game. That combined with Voracek's clean record through his entire career would've made a reasonable case for reduction to one game in my opinion.
- MJL

Article, link? Now you are attacking Voracek. Bold. Do you have a quote? Is this gossip? What evidence do you have? In his letter, Mr. Bettman said Voracek acknowledged the interference.

My opinion is based on the letter from Mr. Bettman. My opinion is that it would not have mattered if the Flyers argument was flawless. As it may well have been. I also think everyone should read the letter so as to have it straight from the horse’s mouth.

Despite what the mandate was when he was hired, it seems like Fletch has a handle on the current situation and won't do anything crazy. And let's hope he learned his lesson from the things that went wrong in MIN, namely the big UFA contracts and NMCs he gave out.
- Tomahawk

I don't see how we actually know that yet. The market was never going to be in the Flyers favor during the season. What he does in the off season will show us what he is going to do and when the expectation for meeting that mandate is more reasonable.

wait are we really arguing if Carter was a good player as a Flyer??

Article, link? Now you are attacking Voracek. Bold. Do you have a quote? Is this gossip? What evidence do you have? In his letter, Mr. Bettman said Voracek acknowledged the interference.

My opinion is based on the letter from Mr. Bettman. My opinion is that it would not have mattered if the Flyers argument was flawless. As it may well have been. I also think everyone should read the letter so as to have it straight from the horse’s mouth.
- NC Flyers Fan

Yes, I'm attacking Voracek! I'm following his car around town and staking out his house.


This quote from Voracek indicates other than interference, which is a simple 2 minute penalty call in most cases, he still does not feel what he did was worthy of a suspension. At least that's my read on it.

""There's no question that it was interference. I think the explanation on a suspension is that I went out of my way to make head contact with Johnny Boychuk, which I don't think I did. I think I changed my way drastically and my explanation was that I was bracing for contact. I didn't mean anything by it. Obviously, they saw it differently."

If you read Bettman's letter, it is clear that they came to argue the actual play from Voracek's perspective. That argument never had a chance. As I posted earlier. That was the wrong argument to make. The argument to make for a reduction in games was to reference previous suspensions of other players that were worse actions that only received a 1 game suspension compared to Voracek's actions on this play. That combined with his clean record of the past is the approach they should've taken. This is a repeat of what I posted previously

wait are we really arguing if Carter was a good player as a Flyer??
- bulet13

you mean mr high and wides who fires the puck into goalie's pads at the worst time?

I'd have gotten Voracek's suspension revoked and Boychuk suspended.

- MJL

Ha ha. That’s what I was thinking

Edit: not sure it would be so much the strength of your argument as your ability to wear him down and annoyed him so much that he would have done anything to get rid of you.

Ha ha. That’s what I was thinking

Edit: not sure it would be so much the strength of your argument as your ability to wear him down and annoyed him so much that he would have done anything to get rid of you.
- Dkos

The strength of my arguments is what annoys people!

I wouldn’t mind signing zuccarrello

The strength of my arguments is what annoys people!
- MJL

You crack me up.

You crack me up.
- Dkos

From my viewpoint that was an attempt at a fun moment. Are we going to make into something else?

You always were a Carter apologist.
- Lexington Flyer

Actually I'm with MJL on this one. Your criticism of Carter is actually what is ridiculous.

From my viewpoint that was an attempt at a fun moment. Are we going to make into something else?
- MJL

I thought it was funny too. Seriously not understanding what I said to upset you?

I thought it was funny too. Seriously not understanding what I said to upset you?
- Dkos

I'm not upset. I don't get upset but I see this as a shot.


Edit: not sure it would be so much the strength of your argument as your ability to wear him down and annoyed him so much that he would have done anything to get rid of you.

I'm not upset. I don't get upset but I see this as a shot.


Edit: not sure it would be so much the strength of your argument as your ability to wear him down and annoyed him so much that he would have done anything to get rid of you.
- MJL

I thought you were referring to my last comment. The above post was maybe a little bit of a shot, but in a good natured teasing sort of way. The subtleties of conversation are tough in type. I thought we were having fun