"Seems, madam? Nay, it is. I know not seems." Sorry, I don't get to quote Shakespeare as much as I want. If one stands out, why not?

When it comes to FA, I don't want flashy or big splash, I want lineup holes filled smartly and appropriately. That works for me, a kick ass 4th line.
- I Am The Breadman

Is that quote the precursor to "Do, or do not, there is no try."

Is that quote the precursor to "Do, or do not, there is no try."
- tvetter

Hahahaha, Yoda?

If so, then precursor ... meh, sure.

In a prior blog someone asked about any potential college free agents and specifically about Nico Sturm. Read this today on BlackhawkUp so take it FWIW:

"Nico Sturm from Clarkson University is a fantastic two-way center. He’s exceptional at faceoffs, and that’s something that the Blackhawks are terrible at (outside of Jonathan Toews). The 23-year-old German native has earned the title of ECAC Hockey’s Best Defensive Forward two years in a row. He was also recently named to ECAC’s First-Team All-League. In 115 games with Clarkson, he recorded 101 points (36 G, 65 A)."

If he can translate that solid defense and 200 foot game to the NHL, he would definitely be worth pursuing as a future bottom 6 center.

Lets put the whole "TANK" theory to bed. - NOT DIRECTED AT YOU...BUT THIS WHOLE CONCEPT

IT NEVER HAPPENS. HOW COULD ANY TEAM, OWNERS/COACHES, TELL/MANAGE PLAYERS TO LOSE AND EXPECT ANY OF THEM TO WANT TO PLAY FOR THEM. COACHES RESUMES ARE JUDGED BY WINS AND LOSES, NOT FIRST OVERALL PICKS!!

ONLY ON THIS BOARD CAN DIPpoop FANS RATIONALIZE THAT SOMEHOW DRAFTING A PLAYER IN THE TOP 5 TO BE THE EQUIVALENT OF ANYTHING WORTH WHILE. AND SOMEHOW IT WOULD BE BETTER THAN BEING IN THE PLAYOFFS TODAY. CIRCLE JERKS OVER TEENAGERS AND WHAT WILL BE 3 YEARS FROM NOW IS ASS BACKWARDS THINKING. THE ODDS OF WINNING A CUP FOR ANYONE ARE VERY SMALL....THERE IS NO NEED TO DISCOUNT OUR GROUP AND GO ON RECORD AS SAYING AS MUCH...ITS A FREAKIN GIVEN!!!

I am sorry boys loser topics like this and whining about calls makes us all look like p**ssy$

Just like Q, many will sit and wring their hands and complain until they are given a roster of 15 Olympians again. Talk about entitlement. Me, I like watching my teams work hard, compete, grow and evolve. I will take effort over results any day. The last 4 months of hockey are better than any the last few years.

I tell you, fans will/can always rip players from time to time, but the vitriol which some attack and characterize players, of whom we are supposed to be fans of, is way out of proportion and embarrassing.

As always...I have said too much....
- TrueGrit

OMG, you are thick. You cannot ASK players to lose. To tank, you trade off all your good players, so that the team you field sucks, and cannot beat anyone. You get picks and prospects back. It’s done regularly in all team sports. The White Sox are in the middle of one right now. It’s why the traded off Sale, Q, and any other player with and modicum of ability. Sometimes it’s successful (2016 Cubs, 2017 Astros) sometimes it’s not successful (2018-19 Oilers, 2018-19 Bulls).

So, again, tanking is not about asking players to lose, it’s about gathering players that are incapable of winning.

Why it won’t happen with the Blackhawks, is because it would have involved trading off Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Keith, CC, etc. and icing a team full of career AHLers and rookies, as you waited for all you picks prospects to make it. You cannot tank with as many quality players as the Hawks have.

So, you are right that asking players to lose is not reality. But tanking is a strategy, and there are a number of teams in all sports doing it right now.

OMG, you are thick. You cannot ASK players to lose. To tank, you trade off all your good players, so that the team you field sucks, and cannot beat anyone. You get picks and prospects back. It’s done regularly in all team sports. The White Sox are in the middle of one right now. It’s why the traded off Sale, Q, and any other player with and modicum of ability. Sometimes it’s successful (2016 Cubs, 2017 Astros) sometimes it’s not successful (2018-19 Oilers, 2018-19 Bulls).

So, again, tanking is not about asking players to lose, it’s about gathering players that are incapable of winning.

Why it won’t happen with the Blackhawks, is because it would have involved trading off Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Keith, CC, etc. and icing a team full of career AHLers and rookies, as you waited for all you picks prospects to make it. You cannot tank with as many quality players as the Hawks have.

So, you are right that asking players to lose is not reality. But tanking is a strategy, and there are a number of teams in all sports doing it right now.
- scottak

Not to mention that will the legalized sports gambling now, you could get into some seriously dicey legal situations if it came out that you did ask the players to lose.

OMG, you are thick. You cannot ASK players to lose. To tank, you trade off all your good players, so that the team you field sucks, and cannot beat anyone. You get picks and prospects back. It’s done regularly in all team sports. The White Sox are in the middle of one right now. It’s why the traded off Sale, Q, and any other player with and modicum of ability. Sometimes it’s successful (2016 Cubs, 2017 Astros) sometimes it’s not successful (2018-19 Oilers, 2018-19 Bulls).

So, again, tanking is not about asking players to lose, it’s about gathering players that are incapable of winning.

Why it won’t happen with the Blackhawks, is because it would have involved trading off Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Keith, CC, etc. and icing a team full of career AHLers and rookies, as you waited for all you picks prospects to make it. You cannot tank with as many quality players as the Hawks have.

So, you are right that asking players to lose is not reality. But tanking is a strategy, and there are a number of teams in all sports doing it right now.
- scottak

Baseball is one of those sports. Teams must think the Houston Astros model is something to follow.

But for those fans who think tanking is a good strategy in hockey, consider the Edmonton Oilers who have missed the playoffs in 12 of the last 13 years. It takes tanking and complete management and ownership idiocy to accomplish that. Even the Maple Leafs are not that incompetent (but were close).

I like what the Hawks and NY Rangers are doing. But it will take time.

A quick list of professional teams currently tanking. The Blackhawks, are not now, nor have been tanking, since at lease 2008. And they cant with the veterans on their roster.

And not all teams with a bad record are necessarily tanking. For instance, LAK are not there yet, although, if they trade off Doughty, Quick, Kopitar, et al, they will be.

MLB - Orioles, Blue Jays, White Sox, Royals, Marlins

NFL - Raiders, Jets, Cardinals

NBA - Bulls, Suns, Knicks, Cavs

NHL - Senators, Red Wings, Devils, Rangers

In a prior blog someone asked about any potential college free agents and specifically about Nico Sturm. Read this today on BlackhawkUp so take it FWIW:

"Nico Sturm from Clarkson University is a fantastic two-way center. He’s exceptional at faceoffs, and that’s something that the Blackhawks are terrible at (outside of Jonathan Toews). The 23-year-old German native has earned the title of ECAC Hockey’s Best Defensive Forward two years in a row. He was also recently named to ECAC’s First-Team All-League. In 115 games with Clarkson, he recorded 101 points (36 G, 65 A)."

If he can translate that solid defense and 200 foot game to the NHL, he would definitely be worth pursuing as a future bottom 6 center.
- AEL_Fox

Here’s a Dman the Blackhawks should be looking at too, Jimmy Schuldt:


https://youtu.be/HV91Do1Xw9E

Hey guys, I read all the time but havent posted in awhile.

I have had this position for awhile but decided to make this petition today.

Mostly thinking itll go no where but maybe it catches fire haha anyway check it out:
http://chng.it/4mLfhstK6f

Basically the NHL standings and how they are calculated doesnt make much sense. I think it should be fixed.
- kevndevries

I agree 100%.

OMG, you are thick. You cannot ASK players to lose. To tank, you trade off all your good players, so that the team you field sucks, and cannot beat anyone. You get picks and prospects back. It’s done regularly in all team sports. The White Sox are in the middle of one right now. It’s why the traded off Sale, Q, and any other player with and modicum of ability. Sometimes it’s successful (2016 Cubs, 2017 Astros) sometimes it’s not successful (2018-19 Oilers, 2018-19 Bulls).

So, again, tanking is not about asking players to lose, it’s about gathering players that are incapable of winning.

Why it won’t happen with the Blackhawks, is because it would have involved trading off Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Keith, CC, etc. and icing a team full of career AHLers and rookies, as you waited for all you picks prospects to make it. You cannot tank with as many quality players as the Hawks have.

So, you are right that asking players to lose is not reality. But tanking is a strategy, and there are a number of teams in all sports doing it right now.
- scottak

I'm not good at remembering who posted what so if I have this wrong I apologize, but didn't you post that you are in favor of the Hawks tanking? If yes, then can I assume you don't think trying to win another Cup in the T&K era is a strategy that will bear fruit?

I'm not all together against the concept of doing a complete tear down rebuild but I think it has to be done 100%, meaning trading Toews and Kane. Simply trying to lose enough to improve draft position while still keeping T&K and other core pieces is what I don't think can be reasonably advocated.

My preference on complete rebuild versus trying to win another Cup by extending the T&K era is the latter. Maybe my thinking is influenced by the nostalgia of holding on to the T&K era - probably is - but I don't think it's without merit any more than a complete rebuild would result in a Cup any time soon. There's no guarantee either way so my logic is more or less one in the hand is better than two in the bush - we have T&K (one in the hand) - the two in the bush is not quantifiable at this point.

Agree with you. Definitely nothing about Koekkoek or his game says they should keep him. Forsling has had 3 half seasons of NHL experience but still young, I think there will come a time where they will have to make a decision on his future. The contract being up could push him away if he isn't willing to take another low value deal until he shows more than just potential.

Dahlstrom they should definitely retain and see if he can take that next step. He is okay as a 6-7 with potential to be a 4-5 guy.
- breadbag

On Forsling: i have reported what wiz suggested to me regarding Forsling future: maybe he is given until xmas to take that next step. I add this:

Patience is key now for team as what do they have to loose by playing him. With the other two (Dahlstrom, Koekkoek) you have to give them the scenario - if possible - to mature. Lately Forsling has performed better whrn he is left in the Seabrook pairing. Although when only 12 TOI it is not much playing time to grow his game.

I concur with the Dahlstrom analysis. He had performed best when teamed up with Murphy.

Koekkoek is getting the least support here but you poll bloggers and maybe he is not the least among this triumpherant. I liked him a lot when he first started getting regular shifts. His willingness to actually commit a bodycheck stood out among the soft dmen on this roster. Regarding this part of the game, when Dahlstrom uses his big frame effectively in physical confrontations then he is much better.

I really wish each would be given a long look because each can become solid puck movingg dmen. Those players are a valued commidity. Some team could snag one of them from us on the cheap and as wiz has said right time, right place with some pro experience and they blossom.

Blossom as......maybe just strong enough play to hold a job until the more highly acclaimed dmen push them out. Or one of the acclaimed hot shots may get traded. Eventually when several young dmen playing well.....you look at what side each plays. You look at what is the more ideal defense for the team.

It is a waiting game while prospects and team hopeful improves. I just terribly disdain giving up on prospects. Each team has this situatiin sooner or later. How about Columbus with some forwards including Wenneberg?

To carry this discussion to its farthest point....i reference Minny finally giving uo on Granlund as a TOP. Center. They exchanged him for a different player and a different look. They did this approach with Coyle too. Those are two high early draft choices obviiusly progressed further than the dmen in this discussion. But you see the transformation happens with young players. To what extent our dnen may transform? THEY are hopefully getting playing time insofar as later on decisions are to be made.
.

Baseball is one of those sports. Teams must think the Houston Astros model is something to follow.

But for those fans who think tanking is a good strategy in hockey, consider the Edmonton Oilers who have missed the playoffs in 12 of the last 13 years. It takes tanking and complete management and ownership idiocy to accomplish that. Even the Maple Leafs are not that incompetent (but were close).

I like what the Hawks and NY Rangers are doing. But it will take time.
- RickJ

It is also hard to tank when you have a hard salary cap, with a minimum dollar amount you have to get to, thus you cannot just field a team of AHL and 4th liners, you still must field a team that you pay approximately 75% of the upper limit.

In a prior blog someone asked about any potential college free agents and specifically about Nico Sturm. Read this today on BlackhawkUp so take it FWIW:

"Nico Sturm from Clarkson University is a fantastic two-way center. He’s exceptional at faceoffs, and that’s something that the Blackhawks are terrible at (outside of Jonathan Toews). The 23-year-old German native has earned the title of ECAC Hockey’s Best Defensive Forward two years in a row. He was also recently named to ECAC’s First-Team All-League. In 115 games with Clarkson, he recorded 101 points (36 G, 65 A)."

If he can translate that solid defense and 200 foot game to the NHL, he would definitely be worth pursuing as a future bottom 6 center.
- AEL_Fox

I was taking about potential college and/or Euro free agents at one point. From the college ranks Sturm would be at the top of my list.

In a prior blog someone asked about any potential college free agents and specifically about Nico Sturm. Read this today on BlackhawkUp so take it FWIW:

"Nico Sturm from Clarkson University is a fantastic two-way center. He’s exceptional at faceoffs, and that’s something that the Blackhawks are terrible at (outside of Jonathan Toews). The 23-year-old German native has earned the title of ECAC Hockey’s Best Defensive Forward two years in a row. He was also recently named to ECAC’s First-Team All-League. In 115 games with Clarkson, he recorded 101 points (36 G, 65 A)."

If he can translate that solid defense and 200 foot game to the NHL, he would definitely be worth pursuing as a future bottom 6 center.
- AEL_Fox

Did anyone foresee Ryan O'Reilly emerging when he debuted as a defensive forward. So you never know.

And this Galvas could be as solid or more solid than most of these hot shot dmen prospects. He is however another slight sized dman which we have aplenty in the system

Have you seen the video of Delia doing the Connor McGregor strut after Rockford won in the shootout yesterday. Pretty funny.

https://twitter.com/Mario...tatus/1108566140584951809

1 they will have to do a better job at fighting for pucks along the boards then last night.

2 did you see the game tying goal Vas gave up last night, not pretty.

What is there 5vs5 ranking? They didn't do much against Boston or Caps?
- BetweenTheDots

I actually waited for comments like this. This team leads league in PK, PP, almost +100 goal differential.

Vas has top 3 save percentage and second in shutouts, but hawk fans would pump the breaks on 1 goal, which meant nothing to them, as they handled the Caps a few nights ago at home.

By the way, the Lightning are playing for NOTHING while Caps fighting for home ice.

And in the end, with nothing to gain they won anyways.

This tampa team from top to bottom is one of the most complete teams of the last 20 years.

As Paul said, if they remain healthy, they will be tough to beat.

A quick list of professional teams currently tanking. The Blackhawks, are not now, nor have been tanking, since at lease 2008. And they cant with the veterans on their roster.

And not all teams with a bad record are necessarily tanking. For instance, LAK are not there yet, although, if they trade off Doughty, Quick, Kopitar, et al, they will be.

MLB - Orioles, Blue Jays, White Sox, Royals, Marlins

NFL - Raiders, Jets, Cardinals

NBA - Bulls, Suns, Knicks, Cavs

NHL - Senators, Red Wings, Devils, Rangers
- scottak

Why would the Senators tank, they traded their first round pick for Duchene, that is not a tank move, it is another issue that they did not resign him (although they might over the summer).

Devils made the playoffs last year, I don't think they came into the season thinking they were going to tank.

Red Wings are just a bad team, I don't see any moves they made that show they were tanking, heck they kept the human trade deadline deal Thomas Vanek this year.

Rangers - doing much better than expected. traded their 2 UFA's this year, so although a rebuilding year, I do not think they are tanking.

I'm not good at remembering who posted what so if I have this wrong I apologize, but didn't you post that you are in favor of the Hawks tanking? If yes, then can I assume you don't think trying to win another Cup in the T&K era is a strategy that will bear fruit?

I'm not all together against the concept of doing a complete tear down rebuild but I think it has to be done 100%, meaning trading Toews and Kane. Simply trying to lose enough to improve draft position while still keeping T&K and other core pieces is what I don't think can be reasonably advocated.

My preference on complete rebuild versus trying to win another Cup by extending the T&K era is the latter. Maybe my thinking is influenced by the nostalgia of holding on to the T&K era - probably is - but I don't think it's without merit any more than a complete rebuild would result in a Cup any time soon. There's no guarantee either way so my logic is more or less one in the hand is better than two in the bush - we have T&K (one in the hand) - the two in the bush is not quantifiable at this point.
- EbonyRaptor

No, I'm not looking for the Hawks to tank. I've been critical of the management lying and the hiring of JC, and the skill of some of the players, but I'd like to see the boys win, and make the playoffs, if not this season, then next year.

What I am tired of is this circular narrative of people hoping the Hawks 'tank' and True Grit arguing that you can't tank.

My point is, you can tank in any sport, sometimes with success (see 2016 Cubs/2017 Astros) But, the Hawks can't with the talent they have on the roster. And asking a professional athlete to lose is a pretty asinine comment.

Comparison worth noting when you wonder how Gus turns out? Tonight comparison Gus to Gotsibierre.

Why would the Senators tank, they traded their first round pick for Duchene, that is not a tank move, it is another issue that they did not resign him (although they might over the summer).

Devils made the playoffs last year, I don't think they came into the season thinking they were going to tank.

Red Wings are just a bad team, I don't see any moves they made that show they were tanking, heck they kept the human trade deadline deal Thomas Vanek this year.

Rangers - doing much better than expected. traded their 2 UFA's this year, so although a rebuilding year, I do not think they are tanking.
- LAHawk

They just traded Duchene, Dzingel & Stone for picks and prospects. That's the definition of tanking.

Comparison worth noting when you wonder how Gus turns out? Tonight comparison Gus to Gotsibierre.
- jhawk59

Gothisberre has regressed this year.

They just traded Duchene, Dzingel & Stone for picks and prospects. That's the definition of tanking.
- scottak

They tried to sign them but they couldn't, but my point is why tank when you don't have a #1 pick that is lottery eligible?

I actually waited for comments like this. This team leads league in PK, PP, almost +100 goal differential.

Vas has top 3 save percentage and second in shutouts, but hawk fans would pump the breaks on 1 goal, which meant nothing to them, as they handled the Caps a few nights ago at home.

By the way, the Lightning are playing for NOTHING while Caps fighting for home ice.

And in the end, with nothing to gain they won anyways.

This tampa team from top to bottom is one of the most complete teams of the last 20 years.

As Paul said, if they remain healthy, they will be tough to beat.
- TrueGrit

How are they set for lavender sniffers?

How are they set for lavender sniffers?
- mohel

have a few.

They just traded Duchene, Dzingel & Stone for picks and prospects. That's the definition of tanking.
- scottak

That is not tanking. Talk about thick.

Trading away potential UFAs who have no intent to stay on the team is common sense good business. You are able to obtain usable assets. As opposed to just letting players walk away.

The intent of such a strategy in any sport does not have the objective of getting a higher pick as a reward. Flippantly suggesting that teams that cast off players to lose or tank ignores the very dynamic and unique circumstance of each players situation. Some guys have worn out their welcome. In the case of losing teams, keeping older bad character guys around is not worth the hassle vs trying to change to a winning culture.

What I am speaking to is the utter stupidity that losing to pick higher is some sort of strategy. That concept is thrown about by many here as a possible reality.

Now for someone whose feelings are hurt because they actually believe a team lied to them personally, understanding this may be a little tough. Teams rebuilding are NOT tanking. They are managing their assets wisely.