Wasn't that about the same time frame that the unions were at their strongest as well?
- Beaver-Warrior

And some other things:

High tax rates - up to 70%-93% on marginal income for personal returns, high corporate rates

High government spending for defense and domestic projects:
GI Bill, which educated a lot of ex-servicemen and brought a whole generation into the middle class. It also provided government investment in colleges, home building, etc.
Interstate highway system, a defense department project that created our modern highway system, including expressways taking people into and out of cities
Aerospace industry investments and subsidies
Major government investments in education, particularly after Sputnik

And, yes, high unionization in some of our major industries, resulting in a much fairer split of productivity improvement profits between capital and labor than we have today

I actually meant in Modern times but thanks for the refresher. So you're a history geek are you?
- paulr

Yes I am,

1865-1913 was called The Gilded Age in America, and saw the greatest period of economic growth in American history. Except for 1873, the economy boomed because of hard money policies and industrialization. From 1869 to 1879, the US economy grew at a rate of 6.8% The economy repeated this period of growth in the 1880s, in which GDP grew at an annual rate of 3.8%.

Then 1913 happened (the start of federal income tax, and central planning.
- LAHawk

But the economic improvement largely benefited capital, not labor. The courts were almost completely biased against labor, against unions, in favor of so-called "property rights" and "contract rights" between parties that were not in any way of equal power to control those contracts.

It wasn't until after WWII - yes, with the pent-up demand after years of first depression, and then rationing and the industrial move to guns over butter (certainly necessary from 1941 through 1945).

But the society reacted to all of this - and a couple million returning veterans - by expanding opportunity, the education to take advantage of those opportunities, and by somewhat equalizing the "HRR split" (to bring it all back to hockey references).

But the economic improvement largely benefited capital, not labor. The courts were almost completely biased against labor, against unions, in favor of so-called "property rights" and "contract rights" between parties that were not in any way of equal power to control those contracts.

It wasn't until after WWII - yes, with the pent-up demand after years of first depression, and then rationing and the industrial move to guns over butter (certainly necessary from 1941 through 1945).

But the society reacted to all of this - and a couple million returning veterans - by expanding opportunity, the education to take advantage of those opportunities, and by somewhat equalizing the "HRR split" (to bring it all back to hockey references).
- StLBravesFan

Brilliant!!!!

But the economic improvement largely benefited capital, not labor. The courts were almost completely biased against labor, against unions, in favor of so-called "property rights" and "contract rights" between parties that were not in any way of equal power to control those contracts.

It wasn't until after WWII - yes, with the pent-up demand after years of first depression, and then rationing and the industrial move to guns over butter (certainly necessary from 1941 through 1945).

But the society reacted to all of this - and a couple million returning veterans - by expanding opportunity, the education to take advantage of those opportunities, and by somewhat equalizing the "HRR split" (to bring it all back to hockey references).
- StLBravesFan

Here I was going to use a broad brush and say the Gliden Age ended because the DuPont's,Vanderbilt's ETC controlled the wealth in country and economy collapsed eventually due to very little money in circulation.

As an aside to the greatest economic period discussion, how about a shout out to the "Greatest Generation", the pre baby boomers in the first half of the 20th century.

They lived through the depression in the early 1930's then involved in WW2, both overseas and on the home front. Boy they went through a lot. Then on top of that, they had to raise a lot of us dolts that post here. LOL.

As an aside to the greatest economic period discussion, how about a shout out to the "Greatest Generation", the pre baby boomers in the first half of the 20th century.

They lived through the depression in the early 1930's then involved in WW2, both overseas and on the home front. Boy they went through a lot. Then on top of that, they had to raise a lot of us dolts that post here. LOL.
- boilermaker100

They were NOT lavender sniffers.

When was the greatest time economically for the U.S?
- paulr

Define your terms, Pallie. What does "greatest time economically" mean?

When was the greatest time economically for the U.S?
- paulr

Double post.

FAKE NEWS!!!
- paulr

They were NOT lavender sniffers.
- mohel

They were face munchers!

Define your terms, Pallie. What does "greatest time economically" mean?
- mohel

It means when did they allow lavender sniffers to to have lots of money?

Define your terms, Pallie. What does "greatest time economically" mean?
- mohel

Real WAGE growth between 1860-1890 was 60%. yes there was a high concentration of wealth, and abject poverty (primarily due to the influx of immigrants from impoverished countries).

When was the greatest time economically for the U.S?
- paulr

That's a relative question.

80's and 90s enjoyed periods of expansion, with a blip in the middle. More recently, the last few years have been better than the prior 8. (Which I know you were setting the bait for). If we had zero interest rates for the last 2 years, as the prior 8, GDP would be 6% +.

While unions did many good things, they eventually overplayed their hand and contributed to their own demise. By the way, I am South Side born and raised and had family live and die in union growth and in the Steel Mills on Southeast side. I am not a North Sider.

Today we live in a world of crony capitalism, which has grown worse over the last 20 years. Capitalism, often blamed for our problems, does not really exist anymore. As companies are not allowed to fail. More irony.

The average person in America has been destroyed by globalism. Their own Government (D's and Rs) selling them out for a seat at the table of world government.

What is ironic, is that most of the populations of the dying rust belt can not connect those dots. No conservative or nationalist person has been elected to actually represent the interest of the locals in over 100 years. And still they are blamed. Instead, they point to the evil capitalist bogeyman (strawman), and then the established party maintains is power and does absolutely nothing for their people. They plunder and sell off public assets. Meanwhile, in droves people flee the insanity.

People of all walks of life want opportunity, not hand outs or promises.

Regulations are sold to the population as some sort of protection against their harm, when in reality, they only protect and fix the establishments stranglehold.

While I am editorializing, I truly am confounded by the lack of curiosity by many as to what is really happening. What Trump and the Brexit move, the Yellow Vests and many of other movements around the globe are protesting, is the establishment of a global order.

Ironically, the only threat to the push back against globalism, are the thousands of people fleeing the Communist states of the midwest and the north east, who move south and continue voting for the same stupidity that destroyed the state from where they moved.

Well, this should get interesting.....

And some other things:

High tax rates - up to 70%-93% on marginal income for personal returns, high corporate rates

High government spending for defense and domestic projects:
GI Bill, which educated a lot of ex-servicemen and brought a whole generation into the middle class. It also provided government investment in colleges, home building, etc.
Interstate highway system, a defense department project that created our modern highway system, including expressways taking people into and out of cities
Aerospace industry investments and subsidies
Major government investments in education, particularly after Sputnik

And, yes, high unionization in some of our major industries, resulting in a much fairer split of productivity improvement profits between capital and labor than we have today
- StLBravesFan

By that definition, the State of Illinois should be a Socialist Utopia. You have all you describe. Except incentive for anyone to do anything.

Anyone who can afford a 50k/month mortgage isn’t worried that 10k of it goes to fix pot holes in the road. Or they shouldn’t be.
- kwolf68

They shouldn’t be, but the rich seem to be some of the cheapest sobs out there. Our governor’s tactical use of thentoilets in the property he bought comes to mind.

Are those the years that were referenced in Make America Great Again?
- paulr

It’s Morons are governing America

Personally I would point to the post-WW2 era from the early 50s to mid 70s. Probably not the greatest statistically, but the country underwent a pretty significant transformation during his period.

Sorry about the wonkiness, this is kind of a passion of mine.
- LAHawk

Go for it!

They were NOT lavender sniffers.
- mohel

No they weren’t. I occasionally hear the story from my mom about how when she was a kid they used to get “sugar bread” as a treat. It was just a piece of simple white bread with some sugar sprinkled on it - the family couldn’t afford candy back then. The kids I know today would have a cow if we gave them that.

That's a relative question.

80's and 90s enjoyed periods of expansion, with a blip in the middle. More recently, the last few years have been better than the prior 8. (Which I know you were setting the bait for). If we had zero interest rates for the last 2 years, as the prior 8, GDP would be 6% +.

While unions did many good things, they eventually overplayed their hand and contributed to their own demise. By the way, I am South Side born and raised and had family live and die in union growth and in the Steel Mills on Southeast side. I am not a North Sider.

Today we live in a world of crony capitalism, which has grown worse over the last 20 years. Capitalism, often blamed for our problems, does not really exist anymore. As companies are not allowed to fail. More irony.

The average person in America has been destroyed by globalism. Their own Government (D's and Rs) selling them out for a seat at the table of world government.

What is ironic, is that most of the populations of the dying rust belt can not connect those dots. No conservative or nationalist person has been elected to actually represent the interest of the locals in over 100 years. And still they are blamed. Instead, they point to the evil capitalist bogeyman (strawman), and then the established party maintains is power and does absolutely nothing for their people. They plunder and sell off public assets. Meanwhile, in droves people flee the insanity.

People of all walks of life want opportunity, not hand outs or promises.

Regulations are sold to the population as some sort of protection against their harm, when in reality, they only protect and fix the establishments stranglehold.

While I am editorializing, I truly am confounded by the lack of curiosity by many as to what is really happening. What Trump and the Brexit move, the Yellow Vests and many of other movements around the globe are protesting, is the establishment of a global order.

Ironically, the only threat to the push back against globalism, are the thousands of people fleeing the Communist states of the midwest and the north east, who move south and continue voting for the same stupidity that destroyed the state from where they moved.
- TrueGrit

Actually I wasn't referring to the last 20 years. And my bait as you call it was to point out that the when the U.S had it strongest growth 46-70 or so, the tax burden didn't fall so heavily on the middle class, the strength of Unions and the fact the U.S had almost no international competition. Once Germany and Japan began to compete the U.S naturally started to decline economically.

That's a relative question.

80's and 90s enjoyed periods of expansion, with a blip in the middle. More recently, the last few years have been better than the prior 8. (Which I know you were setting the bait for). If we had zero interest rates for the last 2 years, as the prior 8, GDP would be 6% +.

While unions did many good things, they eventually overplayed their hand and contributed to their own demise. By the way, I am South Side born and raised and had family live and die in union growth and in the Steel Mills on Southeast side. I am not a North Sider.

Today we live in a world of crony capitalism, which has grown worse over the last 20 years. Capitalism, often blamed for our problems, does not really exist anymore. As companies are not allowed to fail. More irony.

The average person in America has been destroyed by globalism. Their own Government (D's and Rs) selling them out for a seat at the table of world government.

What is ironic, is that most of the populations of the dying rust belt can not connect those dots. No conservative or nationalist person has been elected to actually represent the interest of the locals in over 100 years. And still they are blamed. Instead, they point to the evil capitalist bogeyman (strawman), and then the established party maintains is power and does absolutely nothing for their people. They plunder and sell off public assets. Meanwhile, in droves people flee the insanity.

People of all walks of life want opportunity, not hand outs or promises.

Regulations are sold to the population as some sort of protection against their harm, when in reality, they only protect and fix the establishments stranglehold.

While I am editorializing, I truly am confounded by the lack of curiosity by many as to what is really happening. What Trump and the Brexit move, the Yellow Vests and many of other movements around the globe are protesting, is the establishment of a global order.

Ironically, the only threat to the push back against globalism, are the thousands of people fleeing the Communist states of the midwest and the north east, who move south and continue voting for the same stupidity that destroyed the state from where they moved.
- TrueGrit

The “world” is not smart enough for a world government. It’s just a bunch of very wealthy and powerful people pushing their own interests.

By that definition, the State of Illinois should be a Socialist Utopia. You have all you describe. Except incentive for anyone to do anything.
- TrueGrit

Do you mean no incentive like Japan, Germany, China, Canada, France, Sweden .....???

It’s Morons are governing America

Personally I would point to the post-WW2 era from the early 50s to mid 70s. Probably not the greatest statistically, but the country underwent a pretty significant transformation during his period.
- Spec41971

Not as transformative as from 1860-1890 here the US went from an agricultural society to the largest industrialized county in the world.

Actually I wasn't referring to the last 20 years. And my bait as you call it was to point out that the when the U.S had it strongest growth 46-70 or so, the tax burden didn't fall so heavily on the middle class, the strength of Unions and the fact the U.S had almost no international competition. Once Germany and Japan began to compete the U.S naturally started to decline economically.
- paulr

My apologies, Fair point. I would still point out that it is easy to romanticize the past, as relatively speaking, the cost to live and survive were better back then.

Sadly, the income tax burden is carried by the wealthy. The more it goes that way, the worse it is for everyone (ironically) because eventually, just like many of the state governments in the north are slowly learning, eventually there is no one left to foot the bill. I am speaking income tax wise. I realize that payroll, sales and property taxes represent a larger percentage of disposable income for the average middle class person, which is part of your larger point.

In my humble opinion, the Federal Reserve, (not an actual federal agency by the way) is the biggest enemy of the people. As it is the perpetual relief valve that pays all bad bets. What in effect happens, is that that banks that own the Fed, actually print more money to inflate the system, to keep it working for the average person. The crime is that the same funds inflate their ownership and their wealth grows the same in good times and bad.