It's easy to forget, given how bad he is today....but Brent Seabrook used to be a great hockey player. 2010 Olympics were nearly 10 years ago.
- EnzoD

Unlike you, most posters never forgot how great Seabrook was. Most of us don't assess players on a minute by minute basis.

Just wondering....

On the outside chance that Seabrook were to just hang them up and walk away from his contract, what if any are the cap implications?
- Ogilthorpe2

I think the Hawks would have some cap penalties over the next 5 seasons if he retired right now.

He has been paid 27 million over the last 3 seasons. but his cap hit was only 6.875 mil per year for a total of 20.625 million in that span, so the Hawks saved 6.375 million in cap on the deal to this point. That amount I believe is penalized over the remaining years, so in this case they would pay that in penalties in portions over the next 5 seasons.

Realistically, he probably wouldn't leave money on the table and would end up on LTIR getting money in his pocket still.

I think the Hawks would have some cap penalties over the next 5 seasons if he retired right now.

He has been paid 27 million over the last 3 seasons. but his cap hit was only 6.875 mil per year for a total of 20.625 million in that span, so the Hawks saved 6.375 million in cap on the deal to this point. That amount I believe is penalized over the remaining years, so in this case they would pay that in penalties in portions over the next 5 seasons.

Realistically, he probably wouldn't leave money on the table and would end up on LTIR getting money in his pocket still.
- breadbag

That said, I can't remember if the contracts under the new CBA get hit with these penalties. It might just be the old ones before the new rules, but I admittedly can't recall off the top of my head.

I think the Hawks would have some cap penalties over the next 5 seasons if he retired right now.

He has been paid 27 million over the last 3 seasons. but his cap hit was only 6.875 mil per year for a total of 20.625 million in that span, so the Hawks saved 6.375 million in cap on the deal to this point. That amount I believe is penalized over the remaining years, so in this case they would pay that in penalties in portions over the next 5 seasons.

Realistically, he probably wouldn't leave money on the table and would end up on LTIR getting money in his pocket still.
- breadbag

This is the way I understand it, if he retires after the season the cap recapture would be $1.275 mil. over the next 5 years.

I think the Hawks would have some cap penalties over the next 5 seasons if he retired right now.

He has been paid 27 million over the last 3 seasons. but his cap hit was only 6.875 mil per year for a total of 20.625 million in that span, so the Hawks saved 6.375 million in cap on the deal to this point. That amount I believe is penalized over the remaining years, so in this case they would pay that in penalties in portions over the next 5 seasons.

Realistically, he probably wouldn't leave money on the table and would end up on LTIR getting money in his pocket still.
- breadbag

Also if he is traded and retired, the $1.275 would still be on the books of the Hawks, as the net cap benefit cannot be traded, it is owned by the team until the contract is completed, no matter where the player was playing at time of retirement.

This is the way I understand it, if he retires after the season the cap recapture would be $1.275 mil. over the next 5 years.
- LAHawk

I can’t see him just walking away from that kind of money!

This is the way I understand it, if he retires after the season the cap recapture would be $1.275 mil. over the next 5 years.
- LAHawk

I thought recapture penalties only applied to those contracts deemed to have circumvented the cap?

I can’t see him just walking away from that kind of money!
- walleyeb1

I can’t either, but then again, if the body can’t handle the beating anymore who knows. The man has some pride too, he knows he’s not the player that earned that contract anymore.

Stan offered it, he signed it, so Imdont begrudge him hanging around to take care of himself and his family, but sometimes the end of a contract and the end of a career don’t necessarily coincide.

I thought recapture penalties only applied to those contracts deemed to have circumvented the cap?
- Ogilthorpe2

That is what I'm not clear on either. I have heard it both ways and I don't know if the "Cap Benefit" is still calculated or if he is just off the books as he was under age 35 when he signed the deal.

I thought recapture penalties only applied to those contracts deemed to have circumvented the cap?
- Ogilthorpe2

I think they just kinda make it up as they go along.

Otherwise - why would contracts signed under the old CBA - legal and without a recapture penalty - all of the sudden become effectively illegal and subject to recapture under a new CBA three years later?

Well I did find what the cap hit would be if Seabrook is bought out at the end of the year


Player Details

Position: Defenseman

Age of Buyout Date: 33

At age 33 player's buyout will be 2/3 of the remaining salary due ($17,000,000). This will result in a total buyout of $11,333,333 with a base salary of $944,444 over each of the next 12 years.




Current Contract Breakdown



Year



Base Salary (Cash)

Signing Bonus

Incentive

Cap Hit


2015-16 Contract details by year $5,000,000 $5,800,000
2016-17 Contract details by year $4,500,000 $6,875,000
2017-18 Contract details by year $4,500,000 $6,875,000
2018-19 Contract details by year $4,500,000 $6,875,000
2019-20 Contract details by year $4,000,000 $6,875,000
2020-21 Contract details by year $1,000,000 $6,875,000
2021-22 Contract details by year $4,000,000 $6,875,000
2022-23 Contract details by year $1,000,000 $6,875,000
2023-24 Contract details by year $2,500,000 $6,875,000





Buyout Breakdown



Year



Base Salary (Cash)

Buyout Savings

Buyout Cap Hit


2018-19 Contract details by year $944,444 $3,555,556 $3,319,444
2019-20 Contract details by year $944,444 $3,055,556 $3,819,444
2020-21 Contract details by year $944,444 $55,556 $6,819,444
2021-22 Contract details by year $944,444 $3,055,556 $3,819,444
2022-23 Contract details by year $944,444 $55,556 $6,819,444
2023-24 Contract details by year $944,444 $1,555,556 $5,319,444
2024-25 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2025-26 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2026-27 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2027-28 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2028-29 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2029-30 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444

I think they just kinda make it up as they go along.

Otherwise - why would contracts signed under the old CBA - legal and without a recapture penalty - all of the sudden become effectively illegal and subject to recapture under a new CBA three years later?
- StLBravesFan

Yeah and who knows what the rules will be (potentially) after next season.

Well I did find what the cap hit would be if Seabrook is bought out at the end of the year


Player Details

Position: Defenseman

Age of Buyout Date: 33

At age 33 player's buyout will be 2/3 of the remaining salary due ($17,000,000). This will result in a total buyout of $11,333,333 with a base salary of $944,444 over each of the next 12 years.




Current Contract Breakdown



Year



Base Salary (Cash)

Signing Bonus

Incentive

Cap Hit


2015-16 Contract details by year $5,000,000 $5,800,000
2016-17 Contract details by year $4,500,000 $6,875,000
2017-18 Contract details by year $4,500,000 $6,875,000
2018-19 Contract details by year $4,500,000 $6,875,000
2019-20 Contract details by year $4,000,000 $6,875,000
2020-21 Contract details by year $1,000,000 $6,875,000
2021-22 Contract details by year $4,000,000 $6,875,000
2022-23 Contract details by year $1,000,000 $6,875,000
2023-24 Contract details by year $2,500,000 $6,875,000





Buyout Breakdown



Year



Base Salary (Cash)

Buyout Savings

Buyout Cap Hit


2018-19 Contract details by year $944,444 $3,555,556 $3,319,444
2019-20 Contract details by year $944,444 $3,055,556 $3,819,444
2020-21 Contract details by year $944,444 $55,556 $6,819,444
2021-22 Contract details by year $944,444 $3,055,556 $3,819,444
2022-23 Contract details by year $944,444 $55,556 $6,819,444
2023-24 Contract details by year $944,444 $1,555,556 $5,319,444
2024-25 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2025-26 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2026-27 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2027-28 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2028-29 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
2029-30 Contract details by year $944,444 -$944,444 $944,444
- LAHawk

Good work LA. Now we need a CPA

As I said, I am often wrong, the only Hawk that signed a contract that would be under recapture is Duncan Keith, however there are buyout penalties which is 2/3 of the remaining contract (for those over 26 when the contract is signed) averaged out over twice as many years that were left on the contract

Good work LA. Now we need a CPA
- boilermaker100

I am one, although most think the letters are for constant Pain in the Ass

That is what I'm not clear on either. I have heard it both ways and I don't know if the "Cap Benefit" is still calculated or if he is just off the books as he was under age 35 when he signed the deal.
- breadbag

I think this is how it goes:

When a player retires their cap hit does not typically count against the team's cap limit. Two notable exceptions to this rule include: (1) all remaining years of any contract signed by players 35 years of age or older continue to count against a team's cap after retirement; and (2) if a player retires and the salary on any remaining years is less than the cap hit of those remaining years, the difference is recouped and charged to the team's cap for those remaining years.

I think this is how it goes:

When a player retires their cap hit does not typically count against the team's cap limit. Two notable exceptions to this rule include: (1) all remaining years of any contract signed by players 35 years of age or older continue to count against a team's cap after retirement; and (2) if a player retires and the salary on any remaining years is less than the cap hit of those remaining years, the difference is recouped and charged to the team's cap for those remaining years.
- walleyeb1

Yes - this makes sense. The current CBA allows for front loaded contracts within certain parameters but it doesn't give the team a get out jail free card by having a player retire early. The cap space saved by the lower AAV versus cash payout needs to be accounted for.

Good work LA. Now we need a CPA
- boilermaker100

I am one - and I’d rather deal with the US tax code than dive into that mess

Here is the buyout calculation under the new CBA:

. It starts with the buy-out salary (as I described above), but then for the original remaining contract years you need to adjust for the difference between the original salary and the original cap hit for each of those years. You take the original cap hit, subtracting the original salary, and add that value to the buy-out salary.

This means that the buy-out cap hit would go up for a year where the original salary was below the original cap hit, and down for a year where the original salary was above the cap hit.

It is possible for the adjusted cap hit to be negative. If that happens, the team gets it as a cap credit.

I am one, although most think the letters are for constant Pain in the Ass
- LAHawk

Aren't you too busy with tax returns than to post here?

Aren't you too busy with tax returns than to post here?
- boilermaker100

I am a smart CPA and don't do taxes, I am not in public accounting anymore and work on the management side.

Here is the buyout calculation under the new CBA:

. It starts with the buy-out salary (as I described above), but then for the original remaining contract years you need to adjust for the difference between the original salary and the original cap hit for each of those years. You take the original cap hit, subtracting the original salary, and add that value to the buy-out salary.

This means that the buy-out cap hit would go up for a year where the original salary was below the original cap hit, and down for a year where the original salary was above the cap hit.

It is possible for the adjusted cap hit to be negative. If that happens, the team gets it as a cap credit.
- LAHawk

I don’t think they were talking about a buyout, they were talking about a player retiring, just walking away.

I don’t think they were talking about a buyout, they were talking about a player retiring, just walking away.
- walleyeb1

Well that won't happen, why would Seabs leave almost $12 mil. on the table, if he can't play he goes on LTIR, he gets his money, and the Hawks don't get a cap hit.

I think the Hawks would have some cap penalties over the next 5 seasons if he retired right now.

He has been paid 27 million over the last 3 seasons. but his cap hit was only 6.875 mil per year for a total of 20.625 million in that span, so the Hawks saved 6.375 million in cap on the deal to this point. That amount I believe is penalized over the remaining years, so in this case they would pay that in penalties in portions over the next 5 seasons.

Realistically, he probably wouldn't leave money on the table and would end up on LTIR getting money in his pocket still.
- breadbag

I’d guess he hangs on as the 6D, then 7D, mentoring the young guys, providing leadership, vocal, etc.

No idea if he’s interested, and doesn’t need to do it for the money, but the 6 then 7 route could lead into a coaching career.

This past off-season there were 2 players I was hoping the Hawks would target. Ryan O'Reilly and Robin Lehner. O'Reilly went to the Blues and Lehner went to the Isles. Both are in the playoffs.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but if the Hawks make those 2 moves instead of the 3 has beens they signed and knowing what we know now about this team, do you think they would have at least made the playoffs this year? I think they would have made enough difference to get them to about 90 points. Not a cup contender but at least a playoff team.