Interesting tid bit.

The Hawks led the NHL allowing 18 empty net goals. They scored 5. For your front line guys, that is -13. This is one of the examples of what makes + - a deceptive stat.

Gus finished -6 for the season.

Add back 10 for empty netters against. Statistically not the black hole he is portrayed.

Also speaks to how solid Murphy and Keith played 5 on 5.
- TrueGrit

I don’t think ENGs are included in the official +/- calculations.

I see this on the net: https://www.thoughtco.com...s-minus-statistic-2779372

However hockeygraphs.com says: This is sometimes news to those that use plus/minus as a stat. The number is not exclusive to 5v5, or even strength. The plus/minus statistic includes all even strength goals, all goals with either goaltender pulled (as hockey views goalie pulled as even strength), and short handed goals.

So - anyone have conclusive facts?

I don’t think ENGs are included in the official +/- calculations.

I see this on the net: https://www.thoughtco.com...s-minus-statistic-2779372

But not much else.
- StLBravesFan

Power play goals, penalty shot goals and empty net goals are not taken into account for plus minus.

Power play goals, penalty shot goals and empty net goals are not taken into account for plus minus.
- paulr

That’s what I thought - but hockey-graphs.com says: This is sometimes news to those that use plus/minus as a stat. The number is not exclusive to 5v5, or even strength. The plus/minus statistic includes all even strength goals, all goals with either goaltender pulled (as hockey views goalie pulled as even strength), and short handed goals.

NHL.com is inconclusive: a player is awarded a "plus" each time he is on the ice when his Club scores an even-strength or shorthanded goal. He receives a "minus" if he is on the ice for an even-strength or shorthanded goal scored by the opposing Club. The difference in these numbers is considered the player's "plus-minus" statistic.

very true...these metrics can be overused and analyzed...who decides what high danger chance...is it like declaring a hit which tend to skewed in the home arena...

but here are the numbers for the hawks defensively and they arn't pretty

This season, they have the worst rate for scoring chances against and high-danger chances against.

In high-danger chances against per 60 minutes, Dahlstrom has the worst on-ice rate in the league. Seabrook is third, Gustafsson is fifth, Forsling is sixth, Connor Murphy is eighth and Keith is ninth. By the way, Michal Kempny is seventh

6 hawk dmen are in the top ten on this stat...

(frank)...unless this changes...kane could put up Gretsky numbers and this team is still going nowhere...
- bogiedoc

As bad as the D is and it's plenty bad, last night's game showed how bad
the forwards are at both backchecking and playing D. Cat/Strome/Perlini
seemed to play the whole game in front of the wrong goalie.

Paying Cat/Strome big money is crippling unless the both improve
defensively. Strome also needs a good summer working on speed
strength and stamina

Blackhawks had 12 overtime losses. The most in the West. Reducing it to 6 would have got them in the dance.

I know the Hawks dont deserve it but with an unhealthy Crow and awful D they are not that far away from the playoffs.
Not much available as D men go for UFA.

Power play goals, penalty shot goals and empty net goals are not taken into account for plus minus.
- paulr

The only stat that they really skew then is overall goal differential.

Giving up lots of ENG’s and scoring few suggests that many of the games they lost were close, and that there were too few times they led close games late. Best way to fix that is to be a good team next year.

That’s what I thought - but hockey-graphs.com says: This is sometimes news to those that use plus/minus as a stat. The number is not exclusive to 5v5, or even strength. The plus/minus statistic includes all even strength goals, all goals with either goaltender pulled (as hockey views goalie pulled as even strength), and short handed goals.

NHL.com is inconclusive: a player is awarded a "plus" each time he is on the ice when his Club scores an even-strength or shorthanded goal. He receives a "minus" if he is on the ice for an even-strength or shorthanded goal scored by the opposing Club. The difference in these numbers is considered the player's "plus-minus" statistic.
- StLBravesFan

I always understood and ENG goal didn't factor in to the +/- I just ;looked up NHL.com and like you it doesn't specifically say leading me to believe it's considered a minus when it's 5 on 5.

As bad as the D is and it's plenty bad, last night's game showed how bad
the forwards are at both backchecking and playing D. Cat/Strome/Perlini
seemed to play the whole game in front of the wrong goalie.

Paying Cat/Strome big money is crippling unless the both improve
defensively. Strome also needs a good summer working on speed
strength and stamina
- gazza53

Strome is a big skinny gangly kid. He needs a summer on that famous 20 lbs of muscle programme suggested by certain individuals.

I don’t think ENGs are included in the official +/- calculations.

I see this on the net: https://www.thoughtco.com...s-minus-statistic-2779372

However hockeygraphs.com says: This is sometimes news to those that use plus/minus as a stat. The number is not exclusive to 5v5, or even strength. The plus/minus statistic includes all even strength goals, all goals with either goaltender pulled (as hockey views goalie pulled as even strength), and short handed goals.

So - anyone have conclusive facts?
- StLBravesFan

They are included.

Blackhawks had 12 overtime losses. The most in the West. Reducing it to 6 would have got them in the dance.

I know the Hawks dont deserve it but with an unhealthy Crow and awful D they are not that far away from the playoffs.
Not much available as D men go for UFA.
- mrpaulish

Greenfield in today’s Trib had 5 games that cost them the playoffs - you look at the 12 extra time losses....

The were 80 lost points this season - any 6 of them could be considered as having kept them out.

What really was determinant was not being good enough to complete the comeback - not deep enough up front or on the blue line, terrible PK, terrible PP through December, inexperienced coaching decisions....

They are included.
- TrueGrit

Source?

Because I saw sources on both sides.

Strome is a big skinny gangly kid. He needs a summer on that famous 20 lbs of muscle programme suggested by certain individuals.
- paulr

Have said that about him before as well. Some of it will come from him just naturally filling out a bit but with his frame, he should put on 30.

This isn't puny Kruger after all.

Seriously, hope he stays and works with DeBrincat and his trainer. Maybe they could convince Perlini to as well.

Nice self-aware quote from Keith about Ward. The commentators were mentioning last night how much of an impact Ward had when he lost his temper and took the team to task after being shelled in yet another game. That’s when the losing skid started turning around. His salary might have been worth it for that alone.

He stopped 45 of 49 shots and had a high-danger save percentage of 1.000. He finished with a .930 save percentage in his final three games and hasn't gotten enough credit for what he did this season.

"He was the best player on the ice, I thought, and gave us a chance to win," Duncan Keith said. "It's too bad we couldn't provide more support, more goals and better defensive play, whether that's the penalty kill or what. I think Cam, he was great for us all year. His leadership and stepping up in the locker room, and I think when we really started to turn the corner when Corey [Crawford] was out and Cam was the guy in net for a lot of those guys as I remember. It's frustrating in the sense he played such a good game and we couldn't give him more support."

Have said that about him before as well. Some of it will come from him just naturally filling out a bit but with his frame, he should put on 30.

This isn't puny Kruger after all.

Seriously, hope he stays and works with DeBrincat and his trainer. Maybe they could convince Perlini to as well.
- HawkintheD

I'd like to see every hawk forward dedicate next season to winning puck battles and spend the summer and training camp learning defensive play and positioning. Until the whole team tightens up defensively they can't become a contending team.

Strome is a big skinny gangly kid. He needs a summer on that famous 20 lbs of muscle programme suggested by certain individuals.
- paulr

It doesn’t take size or, really, blazing speed to be a defensively responsible forward - it takes commitment to getting back and not letting “your guy” (whichever opponent you are supposed to be covering at the time) be open on the rush, or leaving someone wide open in the defensive zone. Not inappropriately leaking out, not floating by the blue line while the slot is left clear, engaging in board battles so that even if you lose it, the opposition doesn’t have easy paths to the net.

So many Hawks have not had sufficient development time in lower league(s) to have learned how to be 200 foot players - DeBrincat, Strome, Perlini, Kane....

I’m hoping that Colliton can use some summer instruction and training camp time to get everyone to be defensively responsible, defensively thinking, defensively understanding how to play in all zones.

Interesting tid bit.

The Hawks led the NHL allowing 18 empty net goals. They scored 5. For your front line guys, that is -13. This is one of the examples of what makes + - a deceptive stat.

Gus finished -6 for the season.

Add back 10 for empty netters against. Statistically not the black hole he is portrayed.

Also speaks to how solid Murphy and Keith played 5 on 5.
- TrueGrit

Great post.

It also speaks loudly as to how ridiculous it is to pull the goaltender wth over 2 minutes to go in regulation and down by one goal. Offensively it is way to challenging to maintain that do or die intensity for over a minute to minute and a half, plus your top players don't have the legs for that long. Player changes due to fatigue makes it much easier to defend and score the empty netters. It's a philosophy that Q started a few years ago and hasn't worked the majority of the time, yet many other teams do it as well. It's the "me too" syndrome for coaches that follow instead of lead !!

Pull the darn goalies under the 1:30 mark when you have possession in the offensive zone and you'll have a better chance of tying it up instead of giving up the empty net goals.

I'd like to see every hawk forward dedicate next season to winning puck battles and spend the summer and training camp learning defensive play and positioning. Until the whole team tightens up defensively they can't become a contending team.
- paulr

Dedicate the season to ENGAGING in puck battles, win or lose.

Even losing them deters opponents, making it harder on the to get their offense or breakouts going.

If Bettman is smart, and he is, he'll leave everything alone and allow the lottery to be random. Should a fix be in it will at some point get out and he and the NHL would be in severe legal problems.

If the Hawks were to luck out and get a top three pick, I'd love to read how Powerenforcer would try to spin the false Bettman hates the Hawks narrative.
- paulr

Agree with u just saying the same teams keep getting top picks and waste that talent example Mcdavid how long before he says he wants out of Edmonton or Eichel in buffalo etc.. these organization keep failing and are rewarded with top 5 picks its just frustrating that is all. It is possible the hawks could get lucky like Carolina last year went from 11 or 12th to the 3rd pick overall so it could happen.

Does anyone know if there is any prohibition in the CBA or NHL rules against the coaches working with selected team members during the summer break? I know Goodman works with people like DeBrincat on strength, but what about Brookbank or Colliton?

Sounded like Colliton is going to be studying all the playoff games, but taking a short break from being on the ice with the guys. Is he allowed to work with them in offseason?

What’s true in business nowadays appears to be making its way into the sports world - no more iron fists:

https://www.dailyherald.c...n-first-season-with-hawks

The Hawks, under Q, seemed to set the tone for type of fast-paced, possession-focused play throughout the league. Now, are they and Tampa (with Cooper) setting the trend in coaching decisions?

After a long look at Koekkoek, what is the verdict on him?

#Blackhawks  leaders this season:

Goals: Patrick Kane, 44
Assists: Patrick Kane, 66
Points: Patrick Kane, 110
PP Goals: Alex DeBrincat, 13
SH Goals: Brandon Saad, 3
TOI: Duncan Keith, 23:01
+/-: Duncan Keith, +13
Hits: Brent Seabrook, 124
FO%: Jonathan Toews, 56.3

After a long look at Koekkoek, what is the verdict on him?
- GalacticStone

I personally don't think he's resigned.

After a long look at Koekkoek, what is the verdict on him?
- GalacticStone

Meh.

I personally don't think he's resigned.
- Justin Lowe

If he will sign for at or near the league minimum it couldn’t hurt to keep him around for a little while longer, but I don’t think too many will mourn if he’s gone.