I think this series really comes down to how many odd-man chances the Pens give up. If they can limit the odd-man chances against they will win. If not then it comes down to whether Murray can stand on his head and make amazing save after amazing save.

Bit of a smaller sample size, I know, but which pair has been better?

Dumo-Trots

or

JJ -Schu?

You just know deep inside that its going to be JJ- Schultz on that 2nd f'n pair...at least to start.

What I want to know is if that advanced stat numbers guy Ventura is still on the Pens payroll, why in the (frank) isn't he telling them to avoid that second pairing like the plague?...or if he is, why arnt they listening? or, if they are hearing him and not acting on the advice, then why is he on the payroll?
- MattStrat

Don’t say it.
And yeah he’s still employed by them as far as I know lol

We get hung up on top 4, but Sully doesn't really deploy his pairs like that. The top pair will play a ton, but he's not going to have as much gap between the second and third pairs as a lot of coaches. Plus he like to use Schultz with Malkin in offensive situations so the third pair needs to pull it's weight defensively.

Which is to say 2nd pair isn't as big a deal on the Pens as it is on some other teams. What it needs to do though is create an offensive advantage which it isn't.

We get hung up on top 4, but Sully doesn't really deploy his pairs like that. The top pair will play a ton, but he's not going to have as much gap between the second and third pairs as a lot of coaches. Plus he like to use Schultz with Malkin in offensive situations so the third pair needs to pull it's weight defensively.

Which is to say 2nd pair isn't as big a deal on the Pens as it is on some other teams. What it needs to do though is create an offensive advantage which it isn't.
- Tojo.

We get hung up on JJ. That’s it.

We get hung up on top 4, but Sully doesn't really deploy his pairs like that. The top pair will play a ton, but he's not going to have as much gap between the second and third pairs as a lot of coaches. Plus he like to use Schultz with Malkin in offensive situations so the third pair needs to pull it's weight defensively.

Which is to say 2nd pair isn't as big a deal on the Pens as it is on some other teams. What it needs to do though is create an offensive advantage which it isn't.
- Tojo.

I mean, your first paragraph is the crux of the problem. Bad defensemen need to be hidden, and this strategy of spreading your "talent" through the second and third pairing so that you can roll your pairings is horribly misguided with our personnel because it leads to bad players getting too many minutes. The end result isn't having two solid pairings because we don't have enough good defensemen for that to be true. The end result is that you have a bad defenseman dragging a good defenseman down on two different pairings and therefore have to play about half the game with pairings that are playing at bottom pairing levels. This is a huge dampener on the forwards every time the top pairing isn't out there (about half the game) and stifles offense.

To be fair, we've all been assuming they will stick with JJ-Schultz, and all the beat writers seem certain, but it hasn't actually happened yet nor to the best of my knowledge has Sullivan committed to it.
- Tojo.

Hunwick wasn't signed to as large of a contract, but he was definitely brought here as a bottom 4 defenseman. Sully had no problem scratching him when he proved he couldn't play. Here's hoping...

So, I actually read this article...it's informative, unbiased, shows that the Pens, especially with Gudbranson AND Johnson in the lineup, are a top defensive team...really? How's that possible?

Honestly guys, did the one chart show the pens being #2 over the past 25 games in preventing HDSC? Did I read that wrong? Like Dumo (who we need), Letang, Schultz, Johnson, Petterson and Gudbranson are, well, actually a good defense? Someone tell me I read that wrong lol.

We get hung up on JJ. That’s it.
- j.boyd919

JJ looks like an anchor due to some advanced stats, but if he's the worst D man on a good Day core, is it even worth harping on? Or, again, did I misread how good the pens are at keeping the other teams away from their net over the last 25 games?

JJ looks like an anchor due to some advanced stats, but if he's the worst D man on a good Day core, is it even worth harping on? Or, again, did I misread how good the pens are at keeping the other teams away from their net over the last 25 games?
- cranktheradio

Jack Johnson and Justin Schultz give up the most high danger attempts per 60 minutes

I would like the Penguins to fix that. Yes. It’s worth harping on. I would much rather see Schultz play with Dumo and Maatta play with Letang. I would rather see steady pairings than see Schultz live in his own end with JJ. I believe they maximizing your roster is absolutely worth harping on.

For the sake of full transparency, I said it wasn't a value contract and was pretty average market value for if Guentzel were a UFA. That was obviously wrong haha.
- Victoro311

I was of this mindset too. It was fair value given the sample size. Overall it was decent because you knew with guentzel you had a low chance of not getting your money’s worth out of him, but I think people who would claim that they knew he was gonna pot forty at virtually even strength are full of it too

Jack Johnson and Justin Schultz give up the most high danger attempts per 60 minutes

I would like the Penguins to fix that. Yes. It’s worth harping on. I would much rather see Schultz play with Dumo and Maatta play with Letang. I would rather see steady pairings than see Schultz live in his own end with JJ. I believe they maximizing your roster is absolutely worth harping on.
- j.boyd919

Right haha. In a seven game sample size Johnson single handedly has the ability to lose them the series. Aside from the goals where you can clearly point to him racking up no more than three seconds prior to the goal, he will neuter your own attempts at scoring as well.

We get hung up on JJ. That’s it.
- j.boyd919

😂 Fair enough

I mean, your first paragraph is the crux of the problem. Bad defensemen need to be hidden, and this strategy of spreading your "talent" through the second and third pairing so that you can roll your pairings is horribly misguided with our personnel because it leads to bad players getting too many minutes. The end result isn't having two solid pairings because we don't have enough good defensemen for that to be true. The end result is that you have a bad defenseman dragging a good defenseman down on two different pairings and therefore have to play about half the game with pairings that are playing at bottom pairing levels. This is a huge dampener on the forwards every time the top pairing isn't out there (about half the game) and stifles offense.
- Victoro311

The 3rd pair probably plays alot with the third line though, which is a decent place to hide even against a second line (and I think has been part of Gudbranson's good numbers though watch someone prove me wrong).

2nd pair, playing with Malkin and Kessel? needs to be prepared for bad turnovers.

Edit: or are you referring to how we don't have a second pairing notably stronger than our 3rd? Always feel the Pens can hide a 2nd pairing behind Geno so long as they can move the puck, like when Joe Corvo-Tom Pressing was one of the league's best defense pairs when theye played behind Alfredssen-Spezza-Heatley. They stunk at defending, but could both move the puck decently so had a huge year behind that juggernaut and got to the Finals.

The 3rd pair probably plays alot with the third line though, which is a decent place to hide even against a second line (and I think has been part of Gudbranson's good numbers though watch someone prove me wrong).

2nd pair, playing with Malkin and Kessel? needs to be prepared for bad turnovers.
- Tojo.

Which is kinda my point. We have two bottom pairing caliber pairings right now. One is being properly hidden, and the other is not, because you can only hide one pairing at a time. Andthe dunsy thing is that we’re hiding the better pairing out of the two currently.

I was of this mindset too. It was fair value given the sample size. Overall it was decent because you knew with guentzel you had a low chance of not getting your money’s worth out of him, but I think people who would claim that they knew he was gonna pot forty at virtually even strength are full of it too
- stayinthefnnet

Boyd was definitely over the moon on the deal so he can talk poop, but I feel most people were in me, you, and Guile’s camp of fair deal but nothing spectacular. There were definitely crazies that actively thought it was a straight up bad deal.

Which is kinda my point. We have two bottom pairing caliber pairings right now. One is being properly hidden, and the other is not, because you can only hide one pairing at a time. Andthe dunsy thing is that we’re hiding the better pairing out of the two currently.
- Victoro311

Erik Gudbranson, #Canucks - 57GP:
CF-43%
GF-34%
xGF-40%
HDCF-41%

Erik Gudbranson, #LetsGoPens - 19GP:
CF-54%
GF-53%
xGF-59%
HDCF-65%

Gudbranson also has the lowest % of OZ Starts & Faceoffs on the @penguins.

How does this happen?

I'm still not completely convinced, but right now they're not hiding the bottom pair at all and they're thriving. I'm at least cautiously optimistic that for a 3rd pair they're doing well.

If we want to contend though, that second group which mainly consists of Malkin, Kessel, Schultz, and Johnson needs to be better. Good news, they're capable (especially if JJ is swapped for Maatta).

Bit of a smaller sample size, I know, but which pair has been better?

Dumo-Trots

or

JJ -Schu?

You just know deep inside that its going to be JJ- Schultz on that 2nd f'n pair...at least to start.

What I want to know is if that advanced stat numbers guy Ventura is still on the Pens payroll, why in the (frank) isn't he telling them to avoid that second pairing like the plague?...or if he is, why arnt they listening? or, if they are hearing him and not acting on the advice, then why is he on the payroll?
- MattStrat

Juju Smith-Schuster

Pens & Isles = snooze fest.

Jake will end up being a hero.

Murray will save our bacon.

At least two OT games.

Woke up with playoffs tummy this morning ugh

Gonna be a long two days....

- Victoro311

hahaha

Anyone catch the article on jake a day or two ago? About his lifestyle and diet changes for this year...

Chipotle five times or more a week bad. Properly cooked meals and nutrition good.

Anyone catch the article on jake a day or two ago? About his lifestyle and diet changes for this year...

Chipotle five times or more a week bad. Properly cooked meals and nutrition good.
- Guile

See, even Jake recognizes that Chipotle is dog poop. I knew he was a Moes guy.

Anyone catch the article on jake a day or two ago? About his lifestyle and diet changes for this year...

Chipotle five times or more a week bad. Properly cooked meals and nutrition good.
- Guile

Phil Kessel disagrees.

See, even Jake recognizes that Chipotle is dog poop. I knew he was a Moes guy.
- j.boyd919

Had moes yesterday and it was awful. Tasted like salt was the only seasoning they used.