No chance the Leafs don't match, in fact no chance they don't have him signed before. He has to get Matthews type money. The only reason he may not is because he's not a center.
- paulr

That's ok then they have less money for their second tier players and perhaps the Hawks can take advantage of that.
I don't understand why teams don't do this to put the screws to the other team. Too much of this don't piss off the other teams.

One last time Darth:

Reservations by me that Bowen is masking his inabilities in reading and lacks IQ in his end and will always be a player who causes more issues as a defender IF he gets to the bigs.Boqvist may need time and muscle but he knows his responsibilities and isn't lost out there.
I don't know how to prove this to anyone or if I need to, but maybe if you can call up the CHL prospects game (which also included a quiet Cozens) watch Byram Bowen get lost time or time.
And it wasn't the first time I had the thoughts, this just fortified my opinion, but again, I am not a paid member of an NHL scouting combine, and don't know squat really except what I conjure from watching.
This new age defender position fill starts to get complicated when you have to determine if these guys can "Duncan Keith" it as defenders reading and then being actually to position and react.
- wiz1901

Oh I know how you feel about Bowen, we just have different opinions on the guy (which is fine).

Marner is a very interesting situation.

The second Tavares signed with the Leafs Shanahan opened the door to one of Matthews or Marner getting offer-sheeted.

I know offer-sheets are rare, however if you're going to offer-sheet any player it would be a player of Marner's skillset... So for the last year I actually expected Marner to be offer-sheeted by some GM, never considered the Hawks tho, but I think given where this team is today and what we have in the way of prospects I think giving an offer-sheet to Marner makes sense. I would assume the compensation would be 4 first round draft picks, however this team (especially if we add Marner) will be drafting 25-30 for those 4 years so the Hawks wouldn't be missing much..

Of course if Bowman offer-sheets Marner he's going to have to figure out a way to get rid of Anisimov... I mean the Hawks do indeed have the cap space to make it happen, but obviously our defense needs drastic retooling so a chunk of cap space will have to go towards that.

Also, lets not forget that DeBrincat and Strome will need to be resigned, and if Strome continues playing like he has, he's going to get a similar contract to DeBrincat.. Of course whomever we draft 3rd overall will need at least a bridge deal in 3 years, then we have Joker, Boqvist, Beaudin and Mitchell and if they meet expectations they're going to need to be paid too.. Not only that but I'm sure there will be pleasant surprises from players we drafted in later rounds that will want to be paid as well, such as Nordgren, Wise, Krucherev (sp)....

I bring that up because you really need to think 2-3 or 4 years ahead and where the team will be if your plan and everything else works out and a guy like Marner will want at least 10M for 7 years, so signing Marner absolutely has the potential to get the Hawks back into "cap hell" a few years down the road..

I mean, remember the more successful these young kids are, the more successful this team will be hence the more it will cost to keep this group together... And if I was Bowman I would be thinking "how do I keep this group of kids together long-term?"...

I do believe offer-sheeting Marner would be an excellent idea, but only based on certain factors. If I were Bowman I would have to trade Anisimov immediately and I would have to be confident that I could get rid of Seabrook in a year or 2.. If I was certain I could achieve those 2 goals I would be all in on Marner, and the compensation wouldn't concern me at all..

But like I said - if these kids pan out this team may have some salary cap issues in 3-4 years..

One thing is urgent tho. The Hawks need to drastically improve our defense this summer, if Bowman can do that the Hawks will be a playoff team next spring if not an outright contender for the Cup..

The Hawks are almost a complete puzzle, they're only missing a few pieces - but if you can upgrade a piece or 2 you already have (with Marner) then you should do it if you think you can make it work long-term.

As for Toronto I laugh at Shanahan's stupidity - there was absolutely ZERO way the Leafs were going to be able to keep Matthews, Marner and Nylander after adding Tavares... Don't get me wrong - Tavares is an excellent player but Shanahan put ZERO thought into the Leafs future when he signed him, and now he's going to lose Marner or Matthews because of it... And I said that the second Toronto signed Tavares..

So yea, I'm open to the idea of offer-sheeting Marner IF Bowman believes it wont affect his ability to keep this younger core of guys together and most of all the ability to immediately fix our defense...

Byram isn't a slam dunk top-pairing guy. He will probably be a good NHL d-man but the notion that he is the top-pairing d-man of the future is a stretch.
- EbonyRaptor

I believe the scouting report on him is he has high-end potential but is still 2-3 years away.

Nothing about him saying he is a shoe in top pairing guy in a year.

I believe the scouting report on him is he has high-end potential but is still 2-3 years away.

Nothing about him saying he is a shoe in top pairing guy in a year.
- bhawks2241

Depending on who drafts Bowen he could play in the NHL next season. The Giants are worried that he won't return.

Yes and wouldn't think twice. Also it wouldn't be 3 first rounders. I believe any offer sheet between $6.088-$8.118 million AAV would be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Anything north of $10.148 would be 4 first rounders.
- Assman22

Marner is getting at least 7-years 10M... If Marner hasn't been signed by July 1st there will be teams lining up with offer-sheets and I'm sure some of them will be in the 10M range.

If I was Marner I wouldn't even consider a bridge deal salary if I had numerous teams knocking at my door offering me truckloads of money on a long term deal... I mean this is Marners opportunity to really cash in and be set for life, and you better believe he's going to take advantage of that.... Of course that's why I laugh at Toronto fans for believing Marner is going to "take one for the team" and sign a reasonable bridge deal.. I mean Marner could get injured tomorrow, or heck he could sign a 7 year deal and get injured in October and that will be it for him, so when you have money thrown at you like Marner will have, you take it.

So yea, Marner is going to demand 9-10M...

Lets also not forget with the salary cap generally always rising that in 5 years Marner at 10M will be considered a "bargain" by most if he's elite.

A couple of things regarding offer sheets. The AAV is based on 5 years if the contract has term longer than 5 years. Obvs, its based on the number of years if less than 5.

Offer sheeting Marner is definitely going to cost 4 1st round picks.

If you offer sheet Marner, you offersheet him for 10 million. Anything north of that will cost 4 1st round picks and that's to much to cough up for a player.

Here is the 2019 CHL prospects game if you have some time to kill.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNw0zOLEglU

Has Cozens, Byram, Dach, Krebs and others.

Glad I don't have to pick. Hard to really choose an 18 year old kid when a good amount of them look good to me.

If you offer sheet Marner, you offersheet him for 10 million. Anything north of that will cost 4 1st round picks and that's to much to cough up for a player.
- RedRevenge

Then there’s no point in even trying it, because he’s going to make a lot more than that.

Would you trade 3 first round picks for a 22 year old Patrick Kane?

Edit: a 22 year old Patrick Kane that is above average defensively?
- paulr

yes depending how your team was comprised and if he was the final piece I could see buffalo putting an offer sheet in they 3 1st this year. Should be interesting offseason with all the quality rfa's that might be able to be signed with their current teams. I would like the hawks to go after erne and paquette.

I believe the scouting report on him is he has high-end potential but is still 2-3 years away.

Nothing about him saying he is a shoe in top pairing guy in a year.
- bhawks2241

Not only that but Bryam isn't even the best player at #3. Also there is no way the Hawks take another defenseman in the first round - especially with a 3rd overall pick after drafting 3 defensman in the first round 2 years in a row.

The Hawks were basically gift-wrapped a golden opportunity moving up 9 spots, and the best players in the draft at #3 are all forwards.. And I'm really not the type that believes in drafting the best player available, I believe in drafting need but in this situation the best player at #3 will be who the Hawks need.

If the draft goes as planned Bowman will take Vasili Podkolzin all day... And to be honest there isn't much that separates Kakko and Podkolzin anyway... IMO, Vasili Podkolzin could turn out to be the best player in the draft... Either way Podkolzin has a Toews-like skillset, Podkolzin is just better offensively..

So yea, there is zero doubt in my mind if Hughes and Kakko are off the board the Hawks take Podkolzin...

I like Cozens too, I think he has more offensive upside but Podkolzin is the more complete player and offensively gifted as well..

This Bryam talk tho just boggles my mind, I don't even know why his name keeps popping up, because it would be a waste of a first round pick anyway you look at it when you factor in that we used first round picks on Joker, Boqvist and Beaudin - not to mention a high second round pick on Mitchell... Sure it would be nice to have a top 4 defense of really 2 pairs of top 2 defenseman but it doesn't make much sense to neglect your offense to do it.

Byram isn't a slam dunk top-pairing guy. He will probably be a good NHL d-man but the notion that he is the top-pairing d-man of the future is a stretch.
- EbonyRaptor

I never have watched him play. According to the scouting reports he has all the attributes Bowman loves in a defender. Does he get lost in his own end like Wiz says, maybe, that's why the Hawks have to do their due diligence, I'm good with whoever they draft, we'll see

If you offer sheet Marner, you offersheet him for 10 million. Anything north of that will cost 4 1st round picks and that's to much to cough up for a player.
- RedRevenge

Sorry but I don't agree with that at all..... If the Hawks signed Marner to say 10.5 and the compensation was 4 first round picks I would totally be fine with that because those 4 first round picks will be late first round picks, probably in the 25-31 range and nothing is guaranteed when you pick that late in the first round...

So with that said I would be absolutely fine with the compensation...

I mean the Hawks are getting one of the best players in this draft, then you add Marner to the mix? this team will be a beast for a long time...

Think about it:

Kane
Toews
DeBrincat
Strome
Podkolzin
Marner
Joker
Boqvist
Beaudin
Mitchell

And none of that is even mentioning guys like Perlini, Saad, Entwistle, Wise, Nordgren, Kurashev and others - the latter of which were absolutely steals..

So yea, who cares about the compensation when you have all of this?

I mean you're not getting a player that comes even close to Marner drafting between 25 and 31 (or 32 if Seattle is in the league)..

Not only that but Bryam isn't even the best player at #3. Also there is no way the Hawks take another defenseman in the first round - especially with a 3rd overall pick after drafting 3 defensman in the first round 2 years in a row.

The Hawks were basically gift-wrapped a golden opportunity moving up 9 spots, and the best players in the draft at #3 are all forwards.. And I'm really not the type that believes in drafting the best player available, I believe in drafting need but in this situation the best player at #3 will be who the Hawks need.

If the draft goes as planned Bowman will take Vasili Podkolzin all day... And to be honest there isn't much that separates Kakko and Podkolzin anyway... IMO, Vasili Podkolzin could turn out to be the best player in the draft... Either way Podkolzin has a Toews-like skillset, Podkolzin is just better offensively..

So yea, there is zero doubt in my mind if Hughes and Kakko are off the board the Hawks take Podkolzin...

I like Cozens too, I think he has more offensive upside but Podkolzin is the more complete player and offensively gifted as well..

This Bryam talk tho just boggles my mind, I don't even know why his name keeps popping up, because it would be a waste of a first round pick anyway you look at it when you factor in that we used first round picks on Joker, Boqvist and Beaudin - not to mention a high second round pick on Mitchell... Sure it would be nice to have a top 4 defense of really 2 pairs of top 2 defenseman but it doesn't make much sense to neglect your offense to do it.
- Savard2Secord

He is moving up because he is considered the best D-man in this draft by far. I could see the Rangers going for him. OK, more of a hope, leaving Kakko for the Hawks.

Not only that but Bryam isn't even the best player at #3. Also there is no way the Hawks take another defenseman in the first round - especially with a 3rd overall pick after drafting 3 defensman in the first round 2 years in a row.

The Hawks were basically gift-wrapped a golden opportunity moving up 9 spots, and the best players in the draft at #3 are all forwards.. And I'm really not the type that believes in drafting the best player available, I believe in drafting need but in this situation the best player at #3 will be who the Hawks need.

If the draft goes as planned Bowman will take Vasili Podkolzin all day... And to be honest there isn't much that separates Kakko and Podkolzin anyway... IMO, Vasili Podkolzin could turn out to be the best player in the draft... Either way Podkolzin has a Toews-like skillset, Podkolzin is just better offensively..

So yea, there is zero doubt in my mind if Hughes and Kakko are off the board the Hawks take Podkolzin...

I like Cozens too, I think he has more offensive upside but Podkolzin is the more complete player and offensively gifted as well..

This Bryam talk tho just boggles my mind, I don't even know why his name keeps popping up, because it would be a waste of a first round pick anyway you look at it when you factor in that we used first round picks on Joker, Boqvist and Beaudin - not to mention a high second round pick on Mitchell... Sure it would be nice to have a top 4 defense of really 2 pairs of top 2 defenseman but it doesn't make much sense to neglect your offense to do it.
- Savard2Secord

But the defense is the liability

I also believe best player available all day long, drafting by need only makes the team's behind you stronger since you are leaving more talented hockey players on the board.

Sorry but I don't agree with that at all..... If the Hawks signed Marner to say 10.5 and the compensation was 4 first round picks I would totally be fine with that because those 4 first round picks will be late first round picks, probably in the 25-31 range and nothing is guaranteed when you pick that late in the first round...

So with that said I would be absolutely fine with the compensation...

I mean the Hawks are getting one of the best players in this draft, then you add Marner to the mix? this team will be a beast for a long time...

Think about it:

Kane
Toews
DeBrincat
Strome
Podkolzin
Marner
Joker
Boqvist
Beaudin
Mitchell

And none of that is even mentioning guys like Perlini, Saad, Entwistle, Wise, Nordgren, Kurashev and others - the latter of which were absolutely steals..

So yea, who cares about the compensation when you have all of this?

I mean you're not getting a player that comes even close to Marner drafting between 25 and 31 (or 32 if Seattle is in the league)..
- Savard2Secord

Signing Marner for that much and the Hawks are losing at least two of the players you listed due to the cap. Most likely, Strome and Dinky.

But the defense is the liability

I also believe best player available all day long, drafting by need only makes the team's behind you stronger since you are leaving more talented hockey players on the board.
- BetweenTheDots

At 3, you take the player you feel is the best. Pure and simple. I agree. You can always trade from a position of strength to fill a need.

On lottery night after the Hawks landed the #3 pick I wanted them to take either Cozens or Dach. Reading Wiz’ assessment of Cozens - I’m even more committed to Cozens as the right pick.

Tab over at Committed Indians put together a nice overview of Cozens for those interested in reading it:

http://committedindians.c...aft-profile-dylan-cozens/

Sorry but I don't agree with that at all..... If the Hawks signed Marner to say 10.5 and the compensation was 4 first round picks I would totally be fine with that because those 4 first round picks will be late first round picks, probably in the 25-31 range and nothing is guaranteed when you pick that late in the first round...

So with that said I would be absolutely fine with the compensation...

I mean the Hawks are getting one of the best players in this draft, then you add Marner to the mix? this team will be a beast for a long time...

Think about it:

Kane
Toews
DeBrincat
Strome
Podkolzin
Marner
Joker
Boqvist
Beaudin
Mitchell

And none of that is even mentioning guys like Perlini, Saad, Entwistle, Wise, Nordgren, Kurashev and others - the latter of which were absolutely steals..

So yea, who cares about the compensation when you have all of this?

I mean you're not getting a player that comes even close to Marner drafting between 25 and 31 (or 32 if Seattle is in the league)..
- Savard2Secord

Ignoring the salary cap on a message board can be done but Stan doesn't have that luxury in the real world. The only reason there is talk about an offer sheet for Marner is because Toronto already has (2) $10M+ players in Tavares and Matthews and therefore can't afford Marner unless they significantly weaken their team by offloading other key players. The Hawks would be in even worse cap hell than Toronto because Toronto doesn't have the Seabrook $7M boat anchor on their books.

On lottery night after the Hawks landed the #3 pick I wanted them them to take either Cozens or Dach. Reading Wiz’ assessment of Cozens - I’m even more committed to Cozens as the right pick.

Tab over at Committed Indians put together a nice overview of Cozens for those interested in reading it:

http://committedindians.c...aft-profile-dylan-cozens/
- Chief4Feathers

Reading that in training camp I would put him on RW with Toews and Saad, and see if he is ready.

I have gone back and forth on my answering the Kakko or Cozen long term equation.


I have been trying to be diplomatic and follow my board but Cozen has old school tendencies truly exceptional top end speed and seems like he could be a generational talent like the guys above him...there I said it...no one else has said it...the soft passes, the way he masks his destination when he doesn't have the puck. and he is never gonna be the guy who doesn't follow his gut and out of deference to Kane, DeBrincat etc. try and get them the puck (like we saw Sikura and others do with clockwork) if he in fact has the shot. And even though I know the big Finnish winger (maybe centre but not in. my eyes) can sty focused with multiple opponents draped on him, I stayed up and reviewed that Dylan Cozen has against Western league opponents too.

I have loved this class of forwards down to Krebs so much and was holding back my energy levels to not be caught on a limb if/when they possibly flat-lined, but now I can tell I have told many I wanted Cozens but never thought there was a chance in the late trip ten.

Go back and read my diplomatic responses in the last two blogs and maybe you can see through to that.

I am not going to revise my Draftsite Mock ranks, because I feel that right now they still reflect MY best player available with Podkolzin at three slot, based on attributes, but as a Hawk hockey boy, I see dozens I like in Cozens

My question is: May I be forgiven.

This is so exciting for me!


btw I have the top 40 profiles up in my mock
- wiz1901

Dude, I wrote a long post yesterday bluntly stating that Cozens is similar to Connor McDavid, and that Cozens has a Connor McDavid ceiling if he works hard and reaches potential... The only factor that separates Cozens and McDavid is that McDavid is naturally talented in all aspects of the game and Cozens doesn't have that natural talent, so he's going to have to really work hard and LEARN how to split NHL defenders, find open space and use his size and speed to his advantage on NHL players at the NHL level... With McDavid tho, that stuff is just natural for him - he doesn't even have to work at it - he just does it without thinking too much about it.

The problem with Cosens is that he could easily turn out to be a bust.. Think Nail Yakupov... So Cosens is a moderately high risk but extremely high reward type player... I mean he could turn out to be a Connor McDavid but at the same time he could be a Dylan Strome as well and at worst a Nail Yakupov.. It just depends on how hard he's willing to work and how he adjusts to NHL competition... I mean Cosens looks like Connor McDavid in juniors but the NHL is an entirely different..

That's the thing about the CHL tho, some players can just dominate and they look like the best players ever but they get to the NHL and they're average if not complete busts..

And that's the thing with Cosens - he's either going to be a top 6 forward or he's not going to make it at the NHL level because his speed and offense is what makes him such an interesting prospect... I mean he has no other abilities to fall back on.

Dude, I wrote a long post yesterday bluntly stating that Cozens is similar to Connor McDavid, and that Cozens has a Connor McDavid ceiling if he works hard and reaches potential... The only factor that separates Cozens and McDavid is that McDavid is naturally talented in all aspects of the game and Cozens doesn't have that natural talent, so he's going to have to really work hard and LEARN how to split NHL defenders, find open space and use his size and speed to his advantage on NHL players at the NHL level... With McDavid tho, that stuff is just natural for him - he doesn't even have to work at it - he just does it without thinking too much about it.

The problem with Cosens is that he could easily turn out to be a bust.. Think Nail Yakupov... So Cosens is a moderately high risk but extremely high reward type player... I mean he could turn out to be a Connor McDavid but at the same time he could be a Dylan Strome as well and at worst a Nail Yakupov.. It just depends on how hard he's willing to work and how he adjusts to NHL competition... I mean Cosens looks like Connor McDavid in juniors but the NHL is an entirely different..

That's the thing about the CHL tho, some players can just dominate and they look like the best players ever but they get to the NHL and they're average if not complete busts..

And that's the thing with Cosens - he's either going to be a top 6 forward or he's not going to make it at the NHL level because his speed and offense is what makes him such an interesting prospect... I mean he has no other abilities to fall back on.
- Savard2Secord

Many scouting overviews on Cozens praise his defensive skills alongside his offensive abilities. I believe his two-way game is what makes him such an attractive prospect.

Many scouting overviews on Cozens praise his defensive skills alongside his offensive abilities. I believe his two-way game is what makes him such an attractive prospect.
- Chief4Feathers

Nice, succinct response. He seems like his floor is pretty high. Very few draft picks are without risks.

Reading that in training camp I would put him on RW with Toews and Saad, and see if he is ready.
- LAHawk

A talent like that definitely gives you options. Perhaps he shows you enough to center a 3rd line with Saad on his wing? Even if he needs to play another year in the minors - the scouting report on him makes me believe he’s the guy the Hawks should select.