Someone posted that but I haven’t come across it
- Just5

Well, hope springs eternal.
Not much you can do with these kids. Either pick them and hope for the best or someone else, snags them in the draft and you have no shot.

Well, hope springs eternal.
Not much you can do with these kids. Either pick them and hope for the best or someone else, snags them in the draft and you have no shot.
- jaws1955

They have to make some changes in the cba where the player has incentive to sign with its drafting team after a full college career. Whether it’s a shorter entry level deal than if you enter the free agent pool or a higher pay scale out of the gate with your drafting team. I’m sure something can be done

Also a signing team should have to provide draft compensation to the drafting team if it elects to sign the player

They have to make some changes in the cba where the player has incentive to sign with its drafting team after a full college career. Whether it’s a shorter entry level deal than if you enter the free agent pool or a higher pay scale out of the gate with your drafting team. I’m sure something can be done
- Just5

I understand that the teams don't have any developmental costs with college players. They can't even go to camps or play after the college season is over. But they have invested draft picks and those ARE valuable. Perhaps being able to offer additional incentives as the draft team. More money, shorter term, something. Just don't like making the picks and having no leverage if the kids go the full four years.

Edit: like you said, perhaps draft pick compensation would help. Not sure that is even fair. Say the Preds sign Allison. He was a second round pick. If a second came back, that could help. But the Preds had four years of college games to evaluate while the Flyers had to make that pick four years earlier. Imagine how the draft would look if done over after four years. So giving a second in August could be quite a steal. Still, it is better than nothing.

I understand that the teams don't have any developmental costs with college players. They can't even go to camps or play after the college season is over. But they have invested draft picks and those ARE valuable. Perhaps being able to offer additional incentives as the draft team. More money, shorter term, something. Just don't like making the picks and having no leverage if the kids go the full four years.
- jaws1955

Something needs to get done

The nhl I’m sure is in no rush to do so bc the current setup is better for the almighty parity

Someone posted that but I haven’t come across it
- Just5

https://twitter.com/Jamey...tml%231117845400344514560

Its like I said the other day, it makes me laugh that you (frank)ers get all bent out of shape and are so reactionary. They have until July 20th (or there about) to sign these 2 guys. They could have number of reasons for wanting to go back for their senior years

hahah at least they won three games. these (frank)s got in a fetal position during the first game.
- KINGKENZO

Yep. After the first period of game one TB saw CBJ weren't going to quit, and they just had nothing. I'd be mortified if I was a Lightning fan. Having a historical regular season and going out like that in the playoffs is a disgrace.

Tampa Bay just couldn’t overcome the loss of Matt Carle.
- PLindbergh31

Very nice...

Something needs to get done

The nhl I’m sure is in no rush to do so bc the current setup is better for the almighty parity
- Just5

I think that you're neglecting to consider that the CBA is a collective bargaining agreement between two parties. Those parties being the league and the NHLPA. The NHLPA represents the players and they have a union and a say.

I think that you're neglecting to consider that the CBA is a collective bargaining agreement between two parties. Those parties being the league and the NHLPA. The NHLPA represents the players and they have a union and a say.
- MJL

While it us an agreement between two parties, perhaps we need to remember is that the players we are discussing are first, NOT members of the NHLPA. Nor do they have input into the negotiations. May get current players to say, "Hey, why do these guys get to be UFAs like that and we don't. I understand that Jr players have a limit on how long they remain property of the drafting team. The rules for European player are different still.

While it us an agreement between two parties, perhaps we need to remember is that the players we are discussing are first, NOT members of the NHLPA. Nor do they have input into the negotiations. May get current players to say, "Hey, why do these guys get to be UFAs like that and we don't. I understand that Jr players have a limit on how long they remain property of the drafting team. The rules for European player are different still.
- jaws1955

In a CBA, not every facet is going to be favorable to the league or the teams. Players becoming free agents and getting to pick who they sign with is good for the players. While they may not be current members, they will be in the future. Many are agreements between the league and junior level leagues. ELC and player rights are part of the CBA.

Your opinion. Uncertainty is simply different now. You believe what you want. I read some remarkable fears today along with some seriously orange sunny forecasts of what the Flyers future looks like under Vingeault. Coming from a place of wanting success for Fletcher and the Flyers, I have little to say on this.
- NC Flyers Fan

No, it’s not my opinion. It’s fact. Vigneault has a track record and an extensive resume. Gordon doesn’t.

Before Feanor and Ftown call bullpoop on me for having a job. No idea how we got here, most people have jobs to pay rent, bills and have the ability to play with our phones. Yes, I took the day off today.

Just note to those overly involved with my life.

In a CBA, not every facet is going to be favorable to the league or the teams. Players becoming free agents and getting to pick who they sign with is good for the players. While they may not be current members, they will be in the future. Many are agreements between the league and junior level leagues. ELC and player rights are part of the CBA.
- MJL

I'm sure not an expert on the CBA or ELCs. It seems like a different system. You don't see many Junior players refusing to sign their ELC and going back in the draft ( which I think is what happens) and it seems that European players are eager to come play for the drafting teams. Just seems like a bit of disconnect with college players being able to say, I'll stay in college four years, get my degree or not, and then pick which ever NHL team I want to play for. This gappens a few times every year. Just seems like it's completely different for college kids. Have to take this into consideration when drafting kids. May lose them after 4 years.

Before Feanor and Ftown call bullpoop on me for having a job. No idea how we got here, most people have jobs to pay rent, bills and have the ability to play with our phones. Yes, I took the day off today.

Just note to those overly involved with my life.
- SuperSchennBros

Hey dude. In all seriousness, I'm kidding around for the most part. I really don't care whether you post, or when you post for that matter.

You don't have to explain anything to me or anyone else.

No, it’s not my opinion. It’s face. Vigneault has a track record and an extensive resume. Gordon doesn’t.
- SuperSchennBros

Fact. Track record and length of resume do not guarantee success. Lack of lengthy NHL resume does not predict failure.

Often, there is a learning curve in the first stint as head coach. Don’t have the numbers, but I’m guessing not many, if any, coaches win it all with their first NHL team. After that, all bets are off.

I'm sure not an expert on the CBA or ELCs. It seems like a different system. You don't see many Junior players refusing to sign their ELC and going back in the draft ( which I think is what happens) and it seems that European players are eager to come play for the drafting teams. Just seems like a bit of disconnect with college players being able to say, I'll stay in college four years, get my degree or not, and then pick which ever NHL team I want to play for. This gappens a few times every year. Just seems like it's completely different for college kids. Have to take this into consideration when drafting kids. May lose them after 4 years.
- jaws1955

In many cases, it is risky for middle-tier prospects to think that way. August 15 is a long time to wait into an off-season. Unless you are a Kevin Hayes (originally a 1st round pick) or Jimmy Vesey (3rd round but rose with a bullet by his draft +2 year) or Justin Schultz (2nd round pick) type of prospect, you still might not get your pick of teams in a multi-bidder situation.

Also keep this in mind: If Allison or Laczynski sign with the Flyers right after their 2019-20 season, they have the leverage of making the Flyers burn a year off their ELC immediately. Otherwise, if they wait until Aug 15 to sign somewhere else, year 1 would be the following season.

Both players have some leverage if they want to go elsewhere in Aug 2020, but not of the same degree that Hayes and Vesey had.

In Allison's case, he has played a combined 44 games (22 apiece) in the last two seasons, dealt with a torn ACL and had unrelated injury issues this year. He was correspondingly not as effective as a junior as he had been as a sophomore prior to the ACL tear. A key reason why he didn't turn pro after last season is that he was concerned that he might struggle to get ice time on the Phantoms since he was going to miss training camp and the first couple months while still doing ACL rehab. Without the ACL tear, he'd almost certainly have been a pro in 2018-19. Not sure of his reasoning this time for going back, but I don't think it was great advice. What happens if he misses a lot of time next season, too?

In Laczynski's case, you are talking about a player who projects as a bottom six forward (albeit possibly a good one) as a pro. His stock has gone up each of the last two years despite some injury issues this season, and I know the Flyers think he's not too far now from being potentially NHL ready. As long as the expectation is of a well-rounded role player and not an impact offensive guy as a pro, he'll be in a good spot whether he waits or signs.

Fact. Track record and length of resume do not guarantee success. Lack of lengthy NHL resume does not predict failure.

Often, there is a learning curve in the first stint as head coach. Don’t have the numbers, but I’m guessing not many, if any, coaches win it all with their first NHL team. After that, all bets are off.
- NC Flyers Fan

You’re right. A rookie coach isn’t gonna win it after their first go with their first team. Berube and Hakstol were both rookie coach and Gordon had one stint with the islanders. Why keep going back to lack of experience, when you can hire a guy with a wealth of it?

Just want to check.... Have the Jackets tuned out Tortorella yet?

In many cases, it is risky for middle-tier prospects to think that way. August 15 is a long time to wait into an off-season. Unless you are a Kevin Hayes (originally a 1st round pick) or Jimmy Vesey (3rd round but rose with a bullet by his draft +2 year) or Justin Schultz (2nd round pick) type of prospect, you still might not get your pick of teams in a multi-bidder situation.

Also keep this in mind: If Allison or Laczynski sign with the Flyers right after their 2019-20 season, they have the leverage of making the Flyers burn a year off their ELC immediately. Otherwise, if they wait until Aug 15 to sign somewhere else, year 1 would be the following season.

Both players have some leverage if they want to go elsewhere in Aug 2020, but not of the same degree that Hayes and Vesey had.

In Allison's case, he has played a combined 44 games (22 apiece) in the last two seasons, dealt with a torn ACL and had unrelated injury issues this year. He was correspondingly not as effective as a junior as he had been as a sophomore prior to the ACL tear. A key reason why he didn't turn pro after last season is that he was concerned that he might struggle to get ice time on the Phantoms since he was going to miss training camp and the first couple months while still doing ACL rehab. Without the ACL tear, he'd almost certainly have been a pro in 2018-19. Not sure of his reasoning this time for going back, but I don't think it was great advice. What happens if he misses a lot of time next season, too?

In Laczynski's case, you are talking about a player who projects as a bottom six forward (albeit possibly a good one) as a pro. His stock has gone up each of the last two years despite some injury issues this season, and I know the Flyers think he's not too far now from being potentially NHL ready. As long as the expectation is of a well-rounded role player and not an impact offensive guy as a pro, he'll be in a good spot whether he waits or signs.
- bmeltzer

Thanks for the info, Bill. You are the best.
I'm not sure of the thought process behind these decisions. It seems to me, getting your ELC signed and making money would be the goal for these guys. You're taking a risk, like Allison on a major injury. Plus you get more games to develop your skills.

You’re right. A rookie coach isn’t gonna win it after their first go with their first team. Berube and Hakstol were both rookie coach and Gordon had one stint with the islanders. Why keep going back to lack of experience, when you can hire a guy with a wealth of it?
- SuperSchennBros

You hit it right there. It is understandable to say Berube and Hakstol had big learning curves as first time NHL head coaches. You are inaccurate to put Gordon in that category. Berube hasn’t done too bad for himself the second time around, eh.

A.V. was a safe hire. A known commodity. No guarantees.

You hit it right there. It is understandable to say Berube and Hakstol had big learning curves as first time NHL head coaches. You are inaccurate to put Gordon in that category. Berube hasn’t done too bad for himself the second time around, eh.

A.V. was a safe hire. A known commodity. No guarantees.
- NC Flyers Fan

Honest question you you and to those who don't like the AV hire.


Who was the guy you wanted? The unsafe hire? The unknown commodity?

Personally I think AV was the best guy available hands down after Quenneville followed the sun.

I absolutely didn't want another guy who was going to be cutting his teeth for the first time (Berube/Hakstol/Stevens) or a guy who was an AHL coach with middling success at the NHL level(Gordon) or an over rated one and done type guy (Guy Boucher).

I want the guy who has a long record of taking teams with middle of the road talent and getting them to play better than the sum of their parts. That is AV in a nutshell.


So who was the guy you all wanted?

In many cases, it is risky for middle-tier prospects to think that way. August 15 is a long time to wait into an off-season. Unless you are a Kevin Hayes (originally a 1st round pick) or Jimmy Vesey (3rd round but rose with a bullet by his draft +2 year) or Justin Schultz (2nd round pick) type of prospect, you still might not get your pick of teams in a multi-bidder situation.

Also keep this in mind: If Allison or Laczynski sign with the Flyers right after their 2019-20 season, they have the leverage of making the Flyers burn a year off their ELC immediately. Otherwise, if they wait until Aug 15 to sign somewhere else, year 1 would be the following season.

Both players have some leverage if they want to go elsewhere in Aug 2020, but not of the same degree that Hayes and Vesey had.

In Allison's case, he has played a combined 44 games (22 apiece) in the last two seasons, dealt with a torn ACL and had unrelated injury issues this year. He was correspondingly not as effective as a junior as he had been as a sophomore prior to the ACL tear. A key reason why he didn't turn pro after last season is that he was concerned that he might struggle to get ice time on the Phantoms since he was going to miss training camp and the first couple months while still doing ACL rehab. Without the ACL tear, he'd almost certainly have been a pro in 2018-19. Not sure of his reasoning this time for going back, but I don't think it was great advice. What happens if he misses a lot of time next season, too?

In Laczynski's case, you are talking about a player who projects as a bottom six forward (albeit possibly a good one) as a pro. His stock has gone up each of the last two years despite some injury issues this season, and I know the Flyers think he's not too far now from being potentially NHL ready. As long as the expectation is of a well-rounded role player and not an impact offensive guy as a pro, he'll be in a good spot whether he waits or signs.
- bmeltzer

Thanks for clarifying Bill. As far as burning the year goes....does that require them playing in at least one game at either AHL or NHL level? If their team goes deep in the tourney and the flyers and phantoms are out of the playoffs. It’s a possibility that they wouldn’t have an opportunity to burn it?

Thanks for clarifying Bill. As far as burning the year goes....does that require them playing in at least one game at either AHL or NHL level? If their team goes deep in the tourney and the flyers and phantoms are out of the playoffs. It’s a possibility that they wouldn’t have an opportunity to burn it?
- Just5

I think they burned a year on both Lyon and Veccs. I don't think Lyon got into a game before that.
Edit: I don't think either player was drafted so it could be different rules apply.

I think they burned a year on both Lyon and Veccs. I don't think Lyon got into a game before that.
Edit: I don't think either player was drafted so it could be different rules apply.
- jaws1955

They definitely did it with Lyon, I'm not sure about Vecchione.

Think Tampa is willing to start listening to offers? I'll take Johnson and McDonagh.