Provorov agrees with you (excerpt from his interview to Match.tv)

Q: Your +/- metric is one of the worst on the team. How would you explain this?
A: I do not consider “+/-“ to be a correct measure of the player’s efficiency. Sometimes you are on the ice, but you are far away from action. And despite working hard in all the zones and playing for about 30 minutes you get a -3 for a game. Your efficiency is negative, even though you were not even close to the situations. Conversely, it can happen otherwise- you may not participate in offense, but your “+/-“ is + 3. Also, there were a lot of empty net goals this season. That’s why I do not think that this metric explains my season.

- missingmike

Ohhh sure, Provorov says it and everyone is like , yeah, that makes sense.

MJL says it and all hell breaks loose....

Ohhh sure, Provorov says it and everyone is like , yeah, that makes sense.

MJL says it and all hell breaks loose....






- MBFlyerfan

was this a raging debate yesterday? Case in point, I win the faceoff and get the puck back to my dman, we break out of the zone. dman makes a bad pass and boom goal. I get the minus. goalie gives up a goal from center ice. i get the minus. I'm at my bench stepping onto the ice and my team scores. i get the plus.

when on a really good team you probably will have a good plus minus but on a bad team a bad plus minus. does that mean one year you were good and the next all of a sudden you can't play? I mean, sure, sometimes players have bad years but I judge that more on the eye test that a stat like plus minus granted it can be impressive when a guy has a solid plus minus on a bad team

was this a raging debate yesterday? Case in point, I win the faceoff and get the puck back to my dman, we break out of the zone. dman makes a bad pass and boom goal. I get the minus. goalie gives up a goal from center ice. i get the minus. I'm at my bench stepping onto the ice and my team scores. i get the plus.

when on a really good team you probably will have a good plus minus but on a bad team a bad plus minus. does that mean one year you were good and the next all of a sudden you can't play? I mean, sure, sometimes players have bad years but I judge that more on the eye test that a stat like plus minus granted it can be impressive when a guy has a solid plus minus on a bad team
- nastyflyergirl

To me +/- is most useful when compared to teammates. If there is one standout one way or the other then that could be a good indicator of how they are doing. There are still some factors to take into consideration, like minutes played and what lines they routinely face so there is some wiggle room. I do think that as soon as you take it outside the team the stat begins to lose value fast.

Ohhh sure, Provorov says it and everyone is like , yeah, that makes sense.

MJL says it and all hell breaks loose....






- MBFlyerfan

Please name the posters that were big +/- references. I don't recall it ever being complained about.

yes

yes

yes


- nastyflyergirl

I'll have what she's having.

Does anyone know if the presser will be on TV? Will there be somewhere I can stream it after work? I know Bill mentioned he will be doing a show after the presser... can someone remind me where that will be located.

But the Fans say Giroux is an awful leader.... How can he get nominated?
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

The terrific, class act, Tom Wilson from the Caps is also nominated for this
award.

In regards to the last blog...Why can't we just say the Flyers are way better off having Sean Couturier then without. Not sure why he has to be compared to Bergeron or Kopitar.

Also I hate the whole plus minus thing because it's a stat that is also dependent on goalies making saves and other players doing their part.

Lastly Couturier at 4.333 is an absolute steal for what he gives the Flyers. It's kind of comical in a way that Voracek has a 8.25 cap hit compared to Couturier.
- J35Bacher

Because you guys turn into a bunch of babies the moment someone becomes even remotely critical of a player you like. Nobody said he sucked. What Couturier gets paid doesn’t matter because he can receive a heavy pay raise when his deal is up. We were paying Simmonds peanuts but the moment injuries caught up with him, all that stuff didn’t matter. He’s just garbage.

It’s most of you who say he’s elite, or as important if not more important than our Captain. So someone comes along and says how this isn’t true, suddenly a sob story In defense of a player you’re building up too high.

Some teams only have two dynamic players who are good enough to get their team over the top. If you think Giroux and Couturier are those guys, well god bless. I tend to disagree and I’m sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings.

The selke nominations was one year ago. Couturier needs to follow up because we expect this of him and we should expect this of him, no matter what the rest of the team is doing.

Ratcliffe is more jvr than Tom Wilson.

I know he will be judged by this offseason but I have been impressed with Fletcher so far. He hasn't done anything earth shattering but he got rid of the dead weight on this team, called up some young guys, and went and hired a very respectable coach. Lets hope he continues this good trend in the offseason.

Because you guys turn into a bunch of babies the moment someone becomes even remotely critical of a player you like. Nobody said he sucked. What Couturier gets paid doesn’t matter because he can receive a heavy pay raise when his deal is up. We were paying Simmonds peanuts but the moment injuries caught up with him, all that stuff didn’t matter. He’s just garbage.

It’s most of you who say he’s elite, or as important if not more important than our Captain. So someone comes along and says how this isn’t true, suddenly a sob story In defense of a player you’re building up too high.

Some teams only have two dynamic players who are good enough to get their team over the top. If you think Giroux and Couturier are those guys, well god bless. I tend to disagree and I’m sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings.

The selke nominations was one year ago. Couturier needs to follow up because we expect this of him and we should expect this of him, no matter what the rest of the team is doing.
- SuperSchennBros

what he's getting paid definitely matters, getting great value for his production right now and for the next few years. his contract is a steal.

Because you guys turn into a bunch of babies the moment someone becomes even remotely critical of a player you like. Nobody said he sucked. What Couturier gets paid doesn’t matter because he can receive a heavy pay raise when his deal is up. We were paying Simmonds peanuts but the moment injuries caught up with him, all that stuff didn’t matter. He’s just garbage.

It’s most of you who say he’s elite, or as important if not more important than our Captain. So someone comes along and says how this isn’t true, suddenly a sob story In defense of a player you’re building up too high.

Some teams only have two dynamic players who are good enough to get their team over the top. If you think Giroux and Couturier are those guys, well god bless. I tend to disagree and I’m sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings.

The selke nominations was one year ago. Couturier needs to follow up because we expect this of him and we should expect this of him, no matter what the rest of the team is doing.
- SuperSchennBros

You seem like your the one a little hurt.

I was just saying I prefer having him then not. And I don't need to compare him to anyone.

Also in the cap world contract does matter. Yes, Simmonds played for peanuts. that is why he was very attractive. That is why people seemed hesitant to keep him on something that could be over 6 million a season. For what Couturier provides the Flyers, 4.5 is a steal.

This is why myself I am not attached to a player. I would trade anyone if it made my team better. If they need to move Couturier to get better then I am all for it. But for what Couturier is paid and brings to the team, I am happy with him and don't need to attach words like elite or selke to him.

Does he make the flyers better? Yes. That's all I need.

Because you guys turn into a bunch of babies the moment someone becomes even remotely critical of a player you like. Nobody said he sucked. What Couturier gets paid doesn’t matter because he can receive a heavy pay raise when his deal is up. We were paying Simmonds peanuts but the moment injuries caught up with him, all that stuff didn’t matter. He’s just garbage.

It’s most of you who say he’s elite, or as important if not more important than our Captain. So someone comes along and says how this isn’t true, suddenly a sob story In defense of a player you’re building up too high.

Some teams only have two dynamic players who are good enough to get their team over the top. If you think Giroux and Couturier are those guys, well god bless. I tend to disagree and I’m sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings.

The selke nominations was one year ago. Couturier needs to follow up because we expect this of him and we should expect this of him, no matter what the rest of the team is doing.
- SuperSchennBros

https://www.broadstreetho...9-nhl-stats-news-analysis
And one guy plays on a line with Pastrnak and Marchand

was this a raging debate yesterday? Case in point, I win the faceoff and get the puck back to my dman, we break out of the zone. dman makes a bad pass and boom goal. I get the minus. goalie gives up a goal from center ice. i get the minus. I'm at my bench stepping onto the ice and my team scores. i get the plus.

when on a really good team you probably will have a good plus minus but on a bad team a bad plus minus. does that mean one year you were good and the next all of a sudden you can't play? I mean, sure, sometimes players have bad years but I judge that more on the eye test that a stat like plus minus granted it can be impressive when a guy has a solid plus minus on a bad team
- nastyflyergirl

To me it is a simple principal. Hockey is a team game. Whether it is +/- or any of the other more "advanced" analytics, they can only tell you what happens when a player is out on the ice. If you're using +/- to say this player is a good defensive player or a bad defensive player, then the stat is being used wrong. It's just information. Why it is happening takes further analysis.

You should see the comments on the Flyers' facebook page regarding G. Some of these "Fans" are morons.
- flyerfan48

Yup love the "trade him" group. The NMC doesnt even matter

+/- is just a measurement of how often you were on the ice with Ghost over the season

Bergeron could win it every year.

Desperately need real competition in the bottom group of forwards. Some of that can come from a big ufa signing like a Hayes/Duchene to push a jvr or Lindblom down too. The bottom 6 needs to improve but I don’t want to go out and get bottom 6 ufa’s. That’s the wrong idea. Get the big fish...push players down. For this team to get where it needs to go the Hartmans and raffle need to be having a fight for their lives in training camp
- Just5

Completely on board with this.

+/- should be a line or team stat, not an individual. With that said, there are instances where if it's so screwed one way or the other, it does need to be looked at.

If you're + or - 10, whatever. If you're -48 on the year, yeah something's up.

Watching the AV session and I like what he is saying which is easy to do at this point.

I really liked his "talent has no age" statement.

You can argue if he was the right choice but he has the record and accomplishments to back up the hiring.

+/- should be a line or team stat, not an individual. With that said, there are instances where if it's so screwed one way or the other, it does need to be looked at.

If you're + or - 10, whatever. If you're -48 on the year, yeah something's up.
- Pelle31Forever

Absolutely.

As an aside one of the most amazing stats I have ever seen was Ovechkin the year he scored 51 goals and was -35.

Ek is saying the Penguins are moving on from Malkin. No way they trade him in division, which makes me sad because he would have looked good on the Flyers. I know people are going to hate this just because its Malkin, but he would.

Watching the AV session and I like what he is saying which is easy to do at this point.

I really liked his "talent has no age" statement.

You can argue if he was the right choice but he has the record and accomplishments to back up the hiring.
- opeth_pa

He sounds very confident about getting this fixed. I know it probably means nothing but I like the tone of being sure of himself.

Seems like there are 3 conversations going on. Some people are saying Couts is a good player they love having but isn't an exceptional player and some people say he is an exceptional player because of his defensive ability combined with his offensive ability.

Then you have people that are picking out a comment used to support their opinion (+/-) and diving deep into the true meaning of metrics.

Yes?

Seems like there are 3 conversations going on. Some people are saying Couts is a good player they love having but isn't an exceptional player and some people say he is an exceptional player because of his defensive ability combined with his offensive ability.

Then you have people that are picking out a comment used to support their opinion (+/-) and diving deep into the true meaning of metrics.

Yes?
- youarewrong

No