as you said it's all hindsight, and it's shortsighted hindsight.

That is a proposal for a player that failed to deliver in Colorado and Buffalo - he seems to have found a fit with the Blues. The scenario for the Colorado/Buffalo ROR (a 60 point player) is an overpayment. Little is a 50 point player for millions less, Lowry is a strong role player with some upside, 2020 pick has about a 35% chance of becoming a full time NHLer, Lemieux has an upside as a role player also.

For what it's worth ROR outscored Little by two points in the series and was a minus player, Little was a plus player.

Why undervalue our assets and covet every other solid player in the league? There is a fit in Wpg with Little and Lowry, ROR is an unknown. There are many more obvious players in the Wpg lineup that are more tradeable assets such as Trouba, Kulikov, Winger depth, prospects, draft picks. It doesn't make sense to be try to upgrade by giving away what is working on a risk with limited upside like ROR.
- 2.0

I guess you didn't watch much of O'Reilly in Buffalo. Poor deployment by former coaches is what caused O'Reilly's production to dwindle. O'Reilly has consistently been a player that has been described as being incredibly difficult to play against. Last time I checked, Little has never been asked to play for team Canada at the WHC, whereas O'Reilly got asked every time his team was eliminated.

But hey what the heck does that brass at Hockey Canada know anyway?

Are you Peter Chiarelli?
- 2.0

Name me a better deal 2.0.

I could ask you the same question: Are you Cheveldayoff? Because you are one of his biggest apologists.

I guess you didn't watch much of O'Reilly in Buffalo. Poor deployment by former coaches is what caused O'Reilly's production to dwindle. O'Reilly has consistently been a player that has been described as being incredibly difficult to play against. Last time I checked, Little has never been asked to play for team Canada at the WHC, whereas O'Reilly got asked every time his team was eliminated.

But hey what the heck does that brass at Hockey Canada know anyway?
- TheUltimateJet

ROR is so good that Colorado and Buffalo were willing to let him go. His stock was down when the trade was made. Anything else is the hindsight speaking. Giving up Little, Lowry, 1st round pick and solid prospect for him would have been foolish in 2018.

ROR is so good that Colorado and Buffalo were willing to let him go. His stock was down when the trade was made. Anything else is the hindsight speaking. Giving up Little, Lowry, 1st round pick and solid prospect for him would have been foolish in 2018.
- 2.0

Colorado let him go because they did not want to pay him. he was offer sheeted by Calgary and if Colorado wanted him they would have had to start at 6 million/season, which they did not want to do as that would have meant that players like Duchene would have asked the same. Colorado was operating on an internal cap.

In Buffalo, Jason Botteril took over as GM and thought in his genius the best way to put his stamp on the team would be to make a big trade, which was incredibly foolish.

Also unlike Little and Lowry, RO'Reilly has consistently played against other teams top lines throughout his entire career.

That trade in 2018 would have looked genius, if it was pulled off!

Name me a better deal 2.0.

I could ask you the same question: Are you Cheveldayoff? Because you are one of his biggest apologists.
- TheUltimateJet

Let me start by saying that most of trade suggestions are a fools game because there is so much we don't know that factors in.

Good deals start with looking for teams that are willing to part with a player, usually to address a specific need in return. I get that the Jets would like a permanent upgrade at 2C - if Detroit is willing to let Larkin go to address another need (not sure why they would as this would make another hole for them) Trouba alone would be the most I would consider.

Most trades that happen have a couple core players exchanged, usually different positions, and a few pieces to find balance.

focusing on Trouba as the chip most movable by the Jets consider that the team willing to give the most for him will likely have confidence that they can resign him long term. Detroit is in, but the market is bigger than that. consider that the Jets ideal return is a top 2C, or second #1C this would lead to teams that are looking to shakeup or add to their defense and have options at Centre. I add Florida, Pittsburg and Philly to the list.

How about Trouba for Patrick + an equalizer? Trouba for Trocheck (he will be more available if Panarin signs in Florida)?

If Roslovic is available (hope not) then how about Trouba + Roslovic for Guentzel? Maybe Malkin is available for a similar price. Kulikov and sweetener for Bjugstad

Like I said - it's a fools game and there are usually more losers when trading than winners. Draft and develop. I kind of like the Chevy comparison - thanks.

You can't draft and develop forever. There comes a time when you have a core in place and you add through free agency or trades to address any weaknesses that core has. That is the Jets situation right now.

Let me start by saying that most of trade suggestions are a fools game because there is so much we don't know that factors in.

Good deals start with looking for teams that are willing to part with a player, usually to address a specific need in return. I get that the Jets would like a permanent upgrade at 2C - if Detroit is willing to let Larkin go to address another need (not sure why they would as this would make another hole for them) Trouba alone would be the most I would consider.

Most trades that happen have a couple core players exchanged, usually different positions, and a few pieces to find balance.

focusing on Trouba as the chip most movable by the Jets consider that the team willing to give the most for him will likely have confidence that they can resign him long term. Detroit is in, but the market is bigger than that. consider that the Jets ideal return is a top 2C, or second #1C this would lead to teams that are looking to shakeup or add to their defense and have options at Centre. I add Florida, Pittsburg and Philly to the list.

How about Trouba for Patrick + an equalizer? Trouba for Trocheck (he will be more available if Panarin signs in Florida)?

If Roslovic is available (hope not) then how about Trouba + Roslovic for Guentzel? Maybe Malkin is available for a similar price. Kulikov and sweetener for Bjugstad

Like I said - it's a fools game and there are usually more losers when trading than winners. Draft and develop. I kind of like the Chevy comparison - thanks.
- 2.0

I also hope you embrace the poor asset management that Cheveldayoff has done so well.

I will start with the Joel Armia trade. He traded away Armia prior to knowing if Stastny would sign here. Armia sure would have looked good on our penalty kill. Now before you get started by saying we had to rid ourselves of Armia to get rid of Mason, remember who signed Mason to begin with.

Nik Petan, once considered one of our best prospects. Last year we could have at least gotten a low third round, or late second round pick for him. Chevy lets his value drop to the point we got Par Lindholm for him.

Kevin Hayes, perhaps I will pin this more on Maurice. He was supposed to be our impact trade. Instead we let go of Lemieux who may have made a bigger impact in the playoffs.

Also, I think he should deal Byfuglien now, as I think, just my opinion, Big Buff is half a season away from becoming the Jets version of Brent Seabrook. That would be good asset management.

Go hard after Draisaitl! Give em Trouba, Ehlers and a 1st. If you can make this happen then you move Little immediately, although I believe he has a no movement clause.

Gotta get rid of Frenchy & Kuli, they are both terrible and we need the cash.

You can't draft and develop forever. There comes a time when you have a core in place and you add through free agency or trades to address any weaknesses that core has. That is the Jets situation right now.
- BWJumper

you must draft and develop forever in a salary cap era. Trades will still happen - like this summer when contracts that no longer fit or players that are choosing to exercise free agency rights need to be moved. There has to be a mix of the draft/develop players to replace them and if the fit is right you add a free agent.

Let me start by saying that most of trade suggestions are a fools game because there is so much we don't know that factors in.

Good deals start with looking for teams that are willing to part with a player, usually to address a specific need in return. I get that the Jets would like a permanent upgrade at 2C - if Detroit is willing to let Larkin go to address another need (not sure why they would as this would make another hole for them) Trouba alone would be the most I would consider.

Most trades that happen have a couple core players exchanged, usually different positions, and a few pieces to find balance.

focusing on Trouba as the chip most movable by the Jets consider that the team willing to give the most for him will likely have confidence that they can resign him long term. Detroit is in, but the market is bigger than that. consider that the Jets ideal return is a top 2C, or second #1C this would lead to teams that are looking to shakeup or add to their defense and have options at Centre. I add Florida, Pittsburg and Philly to the list.

How about Trouba for Patrick + an equalizer? Trouba for Trocheck (he will be more available if Panarin signs in Florida)?

If Roslovic is available (hope not) then how about Trouba + Roslovic for Guentzel? Maybe Malkin is available for a similar price. Kulikov and sweetener for Bjugstad

Like I said - it's a fools game and there are usually more losers when trading than winners. Draft and develop. I kind of like the Chevy comparison - thanks.
- 2.0

Would Patrick and Sandheim make any sense for Trouba? Patrick injury prone?

I also hope you embrace the poor asset management that Cheveldayoff has done so well.

I will start with the Joel Armia trade. He traded away Armia prior to knowing if Stastny would sign here. Armia sure would have looked good on our penalty kill. Now before you get started by saying we had to rid ourselves of Armia to get rid of Mason, remember who signed Mason to begin with.

Nik Petan, once considered one of our best prospects. Last year we could have at least gotten a low third round, or late second round pick for him. Chevy lets his value drop to the point we got Par Lindholm for him.

Kevin Hayes, perhaps I will pin this more on Maurice. He was supposed to be our impact trade. Instead we let go of Lemieux who may have made a bigger impact in the playoffs.

Also, I think he should deal Byfuglien now, as I think, just my opinion, Big Buff is half a season away from becoming the Jets version of Brent Seabrook. That would be good asset management.
- TheUltimateJet

After a no show at the season ending press conference, Buff may be available. Don't think that would make many points with management, and besides he's "getting on" and seemingly more brittle. However don't think the Jets get rid of Trouba, Buff and Myers. Think two out of the three will be re-signed/stay.

as you said it's all hindsight, and it's shortsighted hindsight.

That is a proposal for a player that failed to deliver in Colorado and Buffalo - he seems to have found a fit with the Blues. The scenario for the Colorado/Buffalo ROR (a 60 point player) is an overpayment. Little is a 50 point player for millions less, Lowry is a strong role player with some upside, 2020 pick has about a 35% chance of becoming a full time NHLer, Lemieux has an upside as a role player also.

For what it's worth ROR outscored Little by two points in the series and was a minus player, Little was a plus player.

Why undervalue our assets and covet every other solid player in the league? There is a fit in Wpg with Little and Lowry, ROR is an unknown. There are many more obvious players in the Wpg lineup that are more tradeable assets such as Trouba, Kulikov, Winger depth, prospects, draft picks. It doesn't make sense to be try to upgrade by giving away what is working on a risk with limited upside like ROR.
- 2.0

ROR has always been top level, and worth his price tag.

He was a 60 point player with Selke level defence and elite play driving. Now he is a 70 point guy, as he is used properly.

Little has never been that, and is now a 40 point player on the negative side of most things.

I also hope you embrace the poor asset management that Cheveldayoff has done so well.

I will start with the Joel Armia trade. He traded away Armia prior to knowing if Stastny would sign here. Armia sure would have looked good on our penalty kill. Now before you get started by saying we had to rid ourselves of Armia to get rid of Mason, remember who signed Mason to begin with.

Nik Petan, once considered one of our best prospects. Last year we could have at least gotten a low third round, or late second round pick for him. Chevy lets his value drop to the point we got Par Lindholm for him.

Kevin Hayes, perhaps I will pin this more on Maurice. He was supposed to be our impact trade. Instead we let go of Lemieux who may have made a bigger impact in the playoffs.

Also, I think he should deal Byfuglien now, as I think, just my opinion, Big Buff is half a season away from becoming the Jets version of Brent Seabrook. That would be good asset management.
- TheUltimateJet

I can stand with Chevy's asset management. He build from a team who's best asset was manitoba fans to a contender with legitimate competition from within for almost every position on the team.

He didn't bring in Mason to be a long term #1, he was brought in to mentor and fill a gap until Helly's game matured. It was a bonus that it happened quickly not a negative and maybe Mason was the right mentor at the right time. I like Armia but obviously not as much as you. Lowry, Copp, Tanev, Perreault - all are decent PKers, and this is a cap management trade, not a hockey trade. The Jets were looking at more that just resigning Stasny, there were other cap concerns and Armia/Mason took care of $5-6m, providing flexibility. I think Stasny played the Jets and goaded the conference rival to bid high for him. Overall a very small event of little consequence.

A prospect is just that - a prospect. Some advance and others fall flat. Petan fell flat. Chevy could have kept him but it was an opportunity to demonstrate that he keeps promises and traded him to a greener pasture. (critical reputation for small market, remote city like Winnipeg) A 3rd round pick or late second is about the same as Lindholm's worth. Might have been worth that just to open a roster spot for Appleton or Vesalainen.

Hayes was good, not great. If the team played like they did in 2018 it would have been a good trade. We will see if Lemieux comes back to bite us. Overall this is a more controversial decision than Armia, but still only about a 4.5 on the richter scale.

If Chevy does trade Buff it's because his emotions are becoming misdirected (again - us fans don't know what is really going on). He is a strong enough skater with unique physical attributes that he can be good as long as his fire to play is intact.

A legit scorer could be Dylan Larkin. Wonder if the Wings would do Larkin for Trouba and Roslovic?
- TheUltimateJet

they would have to add. Trouba for Larkin and their first would do it

ROR has always been top level, and worth his price tag.

He was a 60 point player with Selke level defence and elite play driving. Now he is a 70 point guy, as he is used properly.

Little has never been that, and is now a 40 point player on the negative side of most things.
- Rexypoo

I didn't say he was equal to ROR, just that for the money difference ROR from 2017/18 is not the player I would have taken a chance on by giving up a positive and cheaper asset, + Lowry, + a 1st, + Lemieux. Your hindsight is 20/20.

about 15 of the points difference between the two is from PP time, and for what it's worth a similar plus/minus.

edit: for 2 years in their careers Little received more Selke votes than ROR. ROR has won the Byng and consistently gets votes for this.

you must draft and develop forever in a salary cap era. Trades will still happen - like this summer when contracts that no longer fit or players that are choosing to exercise free agency rights need to be moved. There has to be a mix of the draft/develop players to replace them and if the fit is right you add a free agent.
- 2.0

Maybe I don't understand the development piece as well as you. How do you develop a player playing them only 8 minutes a game? Petan got that, now Roslovic and Appleton are getting those minutes.

You only develop when players whom you drafted when they start getting significant minutes and are put into crucial situations. See: Kyle Connor, Mark Scheifele, Josh Morrissey.

Guys like Roslovic, Appleton and I will even include Vesalainen are about to become future Petan's on this team. especially if coach Maurice stays on.

After a no show at the season ending press conference, Buff may be available. Don't think that would make many points with management, and besides he's "getting on" and seemingly more brittle. However don't think the Jets get rid of Trouba, Buff and Myers. Think two out of the three will be re-signed/stay.
- grahamzky

Even if we keep Buff, we are going to lose him. Quote this post in February 2020, when I say, he will become this team's Brent Seabrook by then.

I didn't say he was equal to ROR, just that for the money difference ROR from 2017/18 is not the player I would have taken a chance on by giving up a positive and cheaper asset, + Lowry, + a 1st, + Lemieux. Your hindsight is 20/20.

about 15 of the points difference between the two is from PP time, and for what it's worth a similar plus/minus.

edit: for 2 years in their careers Little received more Selke votes than ROR. ROR has won the Byng and consistently gets votes for this.
- 2.0

How many of those years did Hockey Canada contact Bryan Little to play for them?

How many of those years did Hockey Canada contact Bryan Little to play for them?
- TheUltimateJet

Little + Lowry + 1st + Lemieux is too much to trade for ROR in 2017/18

Little + Lowry + 1st + Lemieux is too much to trade for ROR in 2017/18
- 2.0

Actually the trade would have been done last off-season. Summer of 2018, especially after discovering that Stastny was not re-signing in Winnipeg.

Maybe I don't understand the development piece as well as you. How do you develop a player playing them only 8 minutes a game? Petan got that, now Roslovic and Appleton are getting those minutes.

You only develop when players whom you drafted when they start getting significant minutes and are put into crucial situations. See: Kyle Connor, Mark Scheifele, Josh Morrissey.

Guys like Roslovic, Appleton and I will even include Vesalainen are about to become future Petan's on this team. especially if coach Maurice stays on.
- TheUltimateJet

they all started as prospects. some make it, some fail. Sometimes it's about work ethic, sometimes adapting to higher level, sometimes circumstance. Being a prospect is not a birthright to play in the NHL. If you get 8 minutes you better make sure they are a damn good 8 minutes before you ask for 8.5mins.

Playing low minutes takes pressure away because fans will criticize the coach instead of the player. Any success is viewed as a positive that can be built on rather than insufficient success (see Laine&Ehlers).

The circumstance is what keeps Roslovic from more prime ice time than his current average of 10/game. Connor, Wheeler, Laine, Ehlers are better players, Rosy's play style is not suited for 3rd line TLC type play, he is not a stud prospect ready to move from AHL to NHL at the center position, he needs to ripen on the wing first.

Actually the trade would have been done last off-season. Summer of 2018, especially after discovering that Stastny was not re-signing in Winnipeg.
- TheUltimateJet

At that time his best year was 64 points from 2013-14, and his best +/- was +4 from his rookie year. All other years was a minus player. I understand that plus/minus has limited value for determining player worth but there was a negative pattern with ROR. He is at the beginning of his prime now and I hope for his sake that he is able to have similar success through these 6 or 7 years.

At that time his best year was 64 points from 2013-14, and his best +/- was +4 from his rookie year. All other years was a minus player. I understand that plus/minus has limited value for determining player worth but there was a negative pattern with ROR. He is at the beginning of his prime now and I hope for his sake that he is able to have similar success through these 6 or 7 years.
- 2.0

When I commented earlier about O'Reilly, I wasn't endorsing a potential trade of the players mentioned. My point was that St. Louis traded Statsny to Wpg and then upgraded at C with O'Reilly, and was a home run upgrade for St. Louis imop.

Statsny's point total has progressively declined and at 6.5 mill, I will take ROR any day of the week at 7.5 mill over the very "hockey smart" but aging Statsny at this point of his career. 5 years younger, I think St Louis did well replacing Statsny with ROR.

you must draft and develop forever in a salary cap era. Trades will still happen - like this summer when contracts that no longer fit or players that are choosing to exercise free agency rights need to be moved. There has to be a mix of the draft/develop players to replace them and if the fit is right you add a free agent.
- 2.0

The Jets need a 2c they don't have that anywhere in the system. They have a couple of pieces on defense but outside of Niku no potential top pairing.

The core is set for the Jets, don't wait to fill the needs of the team with lottery tickets.

no disrespect meant but for those who suggested Larkin and Detroit's first rounder or Patrick and Sanheim for Trouba, I'm sorry but those have zero chance of happening as both of those are sever over payments by those teams for Trouba.
my best guesses for a realistic Trouba trade would be along these lines; feel free to disagree,

Trouba for

-fla, Trocheck and a 3rd rounder
-fla, Eqblad
-det, Rasmussen and Detroit first
-det, Chowlowski and Detroit first
-phi, Patrick and Phillipe Myers ( but we are adding, Perrault possibly?)
-phi, Ghost and a Philly prospect
-nyr, Howden or Anderson and Hajek