So Ovi is 33, Backstrom is 31 and Carlsson is 29. Their window closing?
- MattStrat

They've also got Kuznetsov and Holtby who will help to hold it open as Ovi/Backstrom decline. Their window is almost identical to Pittsburgh's, they just have more depth at the moment.

So Ovi is 33, Backstrom is 31 and Carlsson is 29. Their window closing?
- MattStrat

Oshie is 32 as well and has a deal till he's like 40.

Those are the players I'd like to not see again next season and I will add the coach and GM to that too...but we know thats not happening, at least not right away as far as the coach is concerned.
- MattStrat

Cullen could be my 4C for a couple more seasons, as long as Sully isn't sitting a potential youngster. I think Teddy could play 3C, and move Bjug to W. Beyond him, the cupboard IS bare.
Wilson (and Cullen) were about the only bright spots against the Isles. Seriously.
I liked Pettersson and Guddy as a 3rd pair. JJ can go because he's overpaid and Pett and Guddy are better.
I don't necessarily disagree with Jboyd on these particular guys, but there is a serious chemistry issue with the Pens, IMHO, so the trade pieces have to be bigger... MUCH bigger. My suggestions have been Malkin and Letang, and I previously detailed my reasons why.
Sully and GMJR ON THE SAME PAGE could be dangerous. I don't think they have been, at least not the past two seasons.

So Ovi is 33, Backstrom is 31 and Carlsson is 29. Their window closing?
- MattStrat

It's close to closing, but I'm not ready to write them off just yet. The Canes appeared to have outlasted them and they are younger. Except for Justin Williams... old guy monster!

They've also got Kuznetsov and Holtby who will help to hold it open as Ovi/Backstrom decline. Their window is almost identical to Pittsburgh's, they just have more depth at the moment.
- jmatchett383

Pens have Guentzel (younger than Kuz) and Murray (younger than Holtby)...Caps also have(had) Brooks Orpik on their blueline.

Cullen could be my 4C for a couple more seasons, as long as Sully isn't sitting a potential youngster. I think Teddy could play 3C, and move Bjug to W. Beyond him, the cupboard IS bare.
Wilson (and Cullen) were about the only bright spots against the Isles. Seriously.
I liked Pettersson and Guddy as a 3rd pair. JJ can go because he's overpaid and Pett and Guddy are better.
I don't necessarily disagree with Jboyd on these particular guys, but there is a serious chemistry issue with the Pens, IMHO, so the trade pieces have to be bigger... MUCH bigger. My suggestions have been Malkin and Letang, and I previously detailed my reasons why.
Sully and GMJR ON THE SAME PAGE could be dangerous. I don't think they have been, at least not the past two seasons.
- Cousinskrid

The bolds get a big from me.

Also the chemistry...I think all the returning players from injury with a game or two left before playoffs plus the guys who got really banged up in the first few games are one of the biggest factors in that sweep. They were outta sync/lacking chemistry.

Yep. They need plenty of changes. Like no JJ and no Guddy and no Cullen and no Wilson. It’s pretty simple.
- j.boyd919

I think if they were somehow able to move JJ and Guds remained I wouldn’t be that upset.

Pens have Guentzel (younger than Kuz) and Murray (younger than Holtby)...Caps also have(had) Brooks Orpik on their blueline.
- MattStrat

I agree with Mr. J. There's really not a ton of difference between the Caps' core's window and the Pens' core's window. They're about the same age and have about the same game breaking ability. The only difference is that the Caps' supporting cast hasn't been mangled to the extent that ours has. They actually have a vision of team construction and are sticking to it, and aren't force feeding Brooks Orpik top 4 minutes anymore.

I think if they were somehow able to move JJ and Guds remained I wouldn’t be that upset.
- Rinosaur

I can't bring myself to get worked up about Gudbranson. Yeah, he's an awkward fit with what we should be doing, but he's played well despite that and has been given the proper role. He's really bad value for a bottom pairing guy with a limited skillset, but unless we're using his cap space for something more useful, then it's whatever to me. You're not gonna get many bottom pairing RD's that'll be an upgrade over the version of Gudbranson we got, and Rutherford has completely lost my trust in utilizing cleared space properly after the Sheary + Hunwick for Johnson flip. I honestly kind of hope Rutherford never has cap space to play with ever again while he's here. Hunwick sucked ass, but we're a much better team with Sheary still here and Hunwick riding the pine rather than Johnson neutralizing Justin Schultz.

I can't bring myself to get worked up about Gudbranson. Yeah, he's an awkward fit with what we should be doing, but he's played well despite that and has been given the proper role. He's really bad value for a bottom pairing guy with a limited skillset, but unless we're using his cap space for something more useful, then it's whatever to me. You're not gonna get many bottom pairing RD's that'll be an upgrade over the version of Gudbranson we got, and Rutherford has completely lost my trust in utilizing cleared space properly after the Sheary + Hunwick for Johnson flip. I honestly kind of hope Rutherford never has cap space to play with ever again while he's here. Hunwick sucked ass, but we're a much better team with Sheary still here and Hunwick riding the pine rather than Johnson neutralizing Justin Schultz.
- Victoro311

I don't disagree with any of this. I really wasn't unhappy with Gudbranson. He doesn't fit the identity the Pens should be going for, but if he's at least holding his own I can't really complain.

I know it's a pipe dream, but if they can move JJ it would be amazing. I also don't know that Maatta stays regardless. I feel ownership has soured him regardless of JJ.

Pens have Guentzel (younger than Kuz) and Murray (younger than Holtby)...Caps also have(had) Brooks Orpik on their blueline.
- MattStrat

Yes, but I also think that that Kuznetsov and Holtby are better than Guentzel and Murray, not to take anything away from Guentzel.

Also, Orpik only played 53 games as a 6/7 dmanthis season and is a UFA made $1M. Would you rather have that or JJ/Gudbranson both in the top-6 for 82 games?

I wonder what the longest streak for Guddy not fighting is? I bet he'll break it as a Pen.

GM gets him to "push back". Coach says "just play". What's the (frank)ing point?

I know to say this Subban thing is a longshot is an understatement, but if he's available I'm looking to find a way without moving Letang. If we're looking at something I'd THINK would be more realistic, I'd be looking at this and it's a major gamble because you never know where a UFA wants to land.

TO NSH: Justin Schultz and Nick Bjugstad
TO PIT: PK Subban and maybe a 2nd or 3rd if they can squeeze it out.

After that I would go hard after Kevin Hayes, or maybe have a hand-shake deal in place before making that trade. I know Hayes is likely going to cost around $6/$6.5M, but I think what this lineup would look after these moves is drastically different.

I'm a big fan of Bjugstad, but if you're going to trade for Subban you're not getting him for Maatta and Hornqvist.

Yes, but I also think that that Kuznetsov and Holtby are better than Guentzel and Murray, not to take anything away from Guentzel.

Also, Orpik only played 53 games as a 6/7 dmanthis season and is a UFA made $1M. Would you rather have that or JJ/Gudbranson both in the top-6 for 82 games?
- jmatchett383

Vrana is also a great young player.

I know to say this Subban thing is a longshot is an understatement, but if he's available I'm looking to find a way without moving Letang. If we're looking at something I'd THINK would be more realistic, I'd be looking at this and it's a major gamble because you never know where a UFA wants to land.

TO NSH: Justin Schultz and Nick Bjugstad
TO PIT: PK Subban and maybe a 2nd or 3rd if they can squeeze it out.

After that I would go hard after Kevin Hayes, or maybe have a hand-shake deal in place before making that trade. I know Hayes is likely going to cost around $6/$6.5M, but I think what this lineup would look after these moves is drastically different.

I'm a big fan of Bjugstad, but if you're going to trade for Subban you're not getting him for Maatta and Hornqvist.
- Rinosaur

I think that Nashville would want more, personally.

I think that Nashville would want more, personally.
- jmatchett383

More grit? We gots lots

I think that Nashville would want more, personally.
- jmatchett383

Maybe, but I think that's a more realistic starting point than Maatta + Hornqvist. Bjugstad fits a major need of theirs and Schultz is a solid RD.

I don't disagree with any of this. I really wasn't unhappy with Gudbranson. He doesn't fit the identity the Pens should be going for, but if he's at least holding his own I can't really complain.

I know it's a pipe dream, but if they can move JJ it would be amazing. I also don't know that Maatta stays regardless. I feel ownership has soured him regardless of JJ.
- Rinosaur

Woukd you.....JJ for Neal, but Calgary retains 2 million? Lol, I'm just saying....I'd give it an honest look.

Realizing you posted this pretty late last night, I hope 'plenty of changes' for the Pens goes much deeper than these guys. Yeah, it was their fault the Pens got swept. C'mon.
- Cousinskrid

Nah. There really isn’t that many chances that need to be made. Replace the 4th line. Replace a few Dmen, maybe trade a middle forward and a pick for an nhl roster player. And you’ve literally changed half the roster. That’s is (frank)ing deep lol

I think that Nashville would want more, personally.
- jmatchett383

Of course they'd want more. It's PK (frank)ing Subban. There's no way they're attaching a pick to Subban to get back an expiring mid pairing RD who I don't think fits their system/identity very well and a center who I personally have really enjoyed on the Penguins but really isn't all that spectacular. Our 1st, Bjugstad, Schultz, and one of our top two prospects MAYBE piques their interest, but even then I doubt it.

EDIT: Penguins, not Sixers. Currently on the Sixers forum talking the Raptors matchup and got my wires crossed haha.

Woukd you.....JJ for Neal, but Calgary retains 2 million? Lol, I'm just saying....I'd give it an honest look.
- nateca44

I'd honestly be extremely tempted to do it without the retention.

Of course they'd want more. It's PK (frank)ing Subban. There's no way they're attaching a pick to Subban to get back an expiring mid pairing RD who I don't think fits their system/identity very well and a center who I personally have really enjoyed on the Sixers but really isn't all that spectacular. Our 1st, Bjugstad, Schultz, and one of our top two prospects MAYBE piques their interest, but even then I doubt it.
- Victoro311

In this era you get the worst value trading top players by nature of the cap. Starting at Bjugstad and Schulz, then adding picks/prospects I think is pretty reasonable. It just becomes a matter of who can offer the better pick/prospect package at this point.

I'd honestly be extremely tempted to do it without the retention.
- Victoro311

Seriously? Neal is on the hook for almost $6M for four more years. Now we'd have him and Horn in the lineup? No thank you.

Yes, but I also think that that Kuznetsov and Holtby are better than Guentzel and Murray, not to take anything away from Guentzel.

Also, Orpik only played 53 games as a 6/7 dmanthis season and is a UFA made $1M. Would you rather have that or JJ/Gudbranson both in the top-6 for 82 games?
- jmatchett383

Only reason I'd say Kuz is better is because he's a C...I dont think he's that much better overall. Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the NHL and he hasn't touched 30 yet.

I do agree with you and Vic that the supporting cast isnt as mangled with the Caps but I like the Pens forward group better than the Caps'. The real mess is the D for the Pens.

To answer your question I'd rather have Oprik as 6/7th at 1 mill, no doubt.

https://twitter.com/cania.../1121272346034278401?s=21

The guy who shoulda been a penguin with a monster game last night.