I've said he has a Million dollar talent and a 10 cent hockey IQ, is that fair to say?
- stevens87

I don't think he's that bad (see Nik Zherdev), but he definitely takes way too many high-risk plays and has mental lapses. But part of what makes (at least made) him great was his ability to read and anticipate the play couldn't with his natural ability.

Again, if you say he needs to alter his game where maybe he doesn't go after those 50-50 pucks that he used to win 5 years ago, I agree with you. And if he needs to maybe give up an extra step to make up for a small decline foot speed, yes, I agree.

But again, that's totally different than changing the way he plays. The Pens don't need him to become a completely different player based on a 4-game sample. The whole team sucked and made too many bad decisions, his stand out the most because of how important he is to the team.

Malkin+Letang+JJ for Kopitar and Doughty
- WSCTeton17

Nah.

I've said he has a Million dollar talent and a 10 cent hockey IQ, is that fair to say?
- stevens87

Nah. that’s a retarded thing to say.

I don't think he's that bad (see Nik Zherdev), but he definitely takes way too many high-risk plays and has mental lapses. But part of what makes (at least made) him great was his ability to read and anticipate the play couldn't with his natural ability.

Again, if you say he needs to alter his game where maybe he doesn't go after those 50-50 pucks that he used to win 5 years ago, I agree with you. And if he needs to maybe give up an extra step to make up for a small decline foot speed, yes, I agree.

But again, that's totally different than changing the way he plays. The Pens don't need him to become a completely different player based on a 4-game sample. The whole team sucked and made too many bad decisions, his stand out the most because of how important he is to the team.
- jmatchett383

Well, I'm not saying he should play like Brad Marsh(Old time Flyers player there ) but for God's sake Kris: Think, know the situation and act accordingly.

If your team is down a goal in the 3rd, by all means take some chances but if your team is up by a goal in the 3rd, don't.

I don't know where you want to categorize that but he has to start doing that or he'll hurt you more than he helps.

Ryan Wilson: Create your best Penguins lineup with $15
Create your best Penguins lineup with $15
- Ryan_Wilson

I like this


$4 malkin
$3 barrasso, francis, kessel
$1 kasparaitis, hatcher


francis, malkin, kessel
kasparaitis, hatcher
barraso

Well, I'm not saying he should play like Brad Marsh(Old time Flyers player there ) but for God's sake Kris: Think, know the situation and act accordingly.

If your team is down a goal in the 3rd, by all means take some chances but if your team is up by a goal in the 3rd, don't.

I don't know where you want to categorize that but he has to start doing that or he'll hurt you more than he helps.
- stevens87

I don't disagree with any of this.

I don't disagree with any of this.
- jmatchett383

That's really what I want Letang to change. If he is unwilling to and believes that he can play the same way the whole game, no matter what the situation, then has he has to go.

That's really what I want Letang to change. If he is unwilling to and believes that he can play the same way the whole game, no matter what the situation, then has he has to go.
- stevens87

But see, that's not what I'd consider "changing his game." He still has to be willing to take risks and push the play, he just has to be smarter about it now that he's no longer 25 years old. That's entirely a mental thing he needs to work on.

Basically, you are asking us to figure out which ones you are undervaluing.

In that case:
Malkin - Kovalev - Lang
Kasparitis - Martin
Barasso

Basically, you are asking us to figure out which ones you are undervaluing.

In that case:
Malkin - Kovalev - Lang
Kasparitis - Martin
Barasso
- PghPens668771

Kasparitis above a 0 is overvaluing. The guy has one (frank)ing career highlight. Played 5 1/2 seasons with the Pens and never cracked 20 points. That would be like me saying Derain Hatcher was a top-10 Flyers defenseman because of his hit on Crosby.

But see, that's not what I'd consider "changing his game." He still has to be willing to take risks and push the play, he just has to be smarter about it now that he's no longer 25 years old. That's entirely a mental thing he needs to work on.
- jmatchett383

Nah need to trade anyone who commits turnovers. This is a zero turnover zone.

But see, that's not what I'd consider "changing his game." He still has to be willing to take risks and push the play, he just has to be smarter about it now that he's no longer 25 years old. That's entirely a mental thing he needs to work on.
- jmatchett383

I agree but guess what he won't. Everyone here knows he'll take the same high risk play no matter what the score is or the type of game the team may need to play to beat the other(like NYI).

I don't know why he is so stubborn. He's been in the league for 12 years and played in three Stanley Cup final series, you think he'd know by now.

Nah need to trade anyone who commits turnovers. This is a zero turnover zone.
- Victoro311

Well he makes a valid point that Letang is making more turovers and losing more risky plays that he used to win. But that still makes him head and shoulders better than anyone else on the blueline, and better than what the return would likely be.

I agree but guess what he won't. Everyone here knows he'll take the same high risk play no matter what the score is or the type of game the team may need to play to beat the other(like NYI).

I don't know why he is so stubborn. He's been in the league for 12 years and played in three Stanley Cup final series, you think he'd know by now.
- stevens87

Okay then, you've sold me, he needs to go. The Pens should look to move him.

Now tell me the realistic return that you'll get in a trade that will make the Pens better within 3 years (a realistic window for the Crosby era), keeping in mind:

- whatever you see as a fan, other GMs see
- the salary cap
- the current state (contender, rebuilder, etc.) of the other team
- the fact that the Pens would be shopping him, not another team calling.

Kovalev-crosby-Lang
Gonchar- Letang
Fleury

Question for Pens fans who were around for the first 2 Cups:

Who would you rather have in a best-of-7: The 1991 version of Tom Barasso in 1991 or the 2009 version of MAF in 2009?

For me, I'd rather have Barasso. I think MAF is way more athletic but not as sound as Barasso was, and I think that fit the early 90s style of play better than MAF's style did in the late 00s.

Well he makes a valid point that Letang is making more turovers and losing more risky plays that he used to win. But that still makes him head and shoulders better than anyone else on the blueline, and better than what the return would likely be.
- jmatchett383

Maybe he makes more turnovers because he has the puck more which is a result of him playing more minutes. He is averaging 1-2 more minutes at 5v5 the last few years which would probably put the puck on his stick, which would correlate to the increase in turnover numbers? His giveaways/60 aren’t really that much higher than other years.

Poster one: "Man, Malkin needs to go, can't stand him."

Poster two: "Okay, how about these 2 really good player and a first round pick?"

Poster one: "Anything less than McDavid isn't a decent return."
- jmatchett383

PPL here want Malkin to retire a Pen more than Malkin possibly does. Maybe they invested too much into all the 71 3rd jerseys over the years.

Maybe he makes more turnovers because he has the puck more which is a result of him playing more minutes. He is averaging 1-2 more minutes at 5v5 the last few years which would probably put the puck on his stick, which would correlate to the increase in turnover numbers? His giveaways/60 aren’t really that much higher than other years.
- j.boyd919

We called that the Matt Carle effect. He played tons of minutes on the top pair, so he had more opportunities to turn it over. He was also deployed against the other team's top line. Add in those 2 factors and, when he did make a turnover, it usually had bad consequences because of the opposition's skill. So yes, Letang's deployment will lead to more, and more serious, turnovers.

That said, I think his decision making on loose pucks and lapses in coverage are more of an issue that his turnover rate. He does need to realize that he can't win the same amount of risky plays and cover his own lapses like he did when he was 25.

PPL here want Malkin to retire a Pen more than Malkin possibly does. Maybe they invested too much into all the 71 3rd jerseys over the years.
- sammy87

The only reason that the Pens should trade Malkin is if Malkin wants to be traded.

The only reasons that the Pens should trade Malkin is if Malkin wants to be traded.
- jmatchett383

Given his full NMC thats basically the only scenario. Unless a team blows the Pens away with an offer.

Given his full NMC thats basically the only scenario. Unless a team blows the Pens away with an offer.
- sammy87

Well I just mean that the team shouldn't be looking for a suitor and then ask him to waive, they should wait and see if he comes to them saying he'd waive it.

Well I just mean that the team shouldn't be looking for a suitor and then ask him to waive, they should wait and see if he comes to them saying he'd waive it.
- jmatchett383

Im sure there are exit interviews after every season where they gauge a players interests. For a player like 71, 87, 58...I dont think it ever comes as a surprise when they get traded. It was well documented before hand.

We called that the Matt Carle effect. He played tons of minutes on the top pair, so he had more opportunities to turn it over. He was also deployed against the other team's top line. Add in those 2 factors and, when he did make a turnover, it usually had bad consequences because of the opposition's skill. So yes, Letang's deployment will lead to more, and more serious, turnovers.

That said, I think his decision making on loose pucks and lapses in coverage are more of an issue that his turnover rate. He does need to realize that he can't win the same amount of risky plays and cover his own lapses like he did when he was 25.
- jmatchett383

This. He was lauded earlier in his career for being able to get back into the play and cover up some errors he made. Everyone ignored the fact that if he hadn't made the error in the first place he'd have no reason to recover.

He still makes the errors, he just isn't as good at covering them up.

I don't want him traded. He is still the Pens best option for 1D, mistakes and all.

This. He was lauded earlier in his career for being able to get back into the play and cover up some errors he made. Everyone ignored the fact that if he hadn't made the error in the first place he'd have no reason to recover.

He still makes the errors, he just isn't as good at covering them up.

I don't want him traded. He is still the Pens best option for 1D, mistakes and all.
- Thorny87

Yeah thats the problem with trading Letang....Dumo becomes your #1D man and he's an above average Dman. Not bad but nothing special. So you gotta go find another #1Dman if you move Letang. Not sure how easy that is.

A #2 C is easier to replace.

That said AV's D is Barrie, Girard, Makar, Cole, Johnson.....Thats a solid lineup!