Okay then, you've sold me, he needs to go. The Pens should look to move him.

Now tell me the realistic return that you'll get in a trade that will make the Pens better within 3 years (a realistic window for the Crosby era), keeping in mind:

- whatever you see as a fan, other GMs see
- the salary cap
- the current state (contender, rebuilder, etc.) of the other team
- the fact that the Pens would be shopping him, not another team calling.
- jmatchett383

I'm not saying to give him away but he should not be untouchable. Crosby is untouchable. I just want the GM and the owners to consider trading him which I'm not sure they are at this time.

If they are offering you crap in return, then don't trade him but I think he should at least be considered.

Question for Pens fans who were around for the first 2 Cups:

Who would you rather have in a best-of-7: The 1991 version of Tom Barasso in 1991 or the 2009 version of MAF in 2009?

For me, I'd rather have Barasso. I think MAF is way more athletic but not as sound as Barasso was, and I think that fit the early 90s style of play better than MAF's style did in the late 00s.
- jmatchett383

I'll say Tommy. Most in Pittsburgh will say MAF because Barasso was such a jerk and that's being kind.

I'll say Tommy. Most in Pittsburgh will say MAF because Barasso was such a jerk and that's being kind.
- stevens87

No Patrick Lalime on the list???? SMH

I'm not saying to give him away but he should not be untouchable. Crosby is untouchable. I just want the GM and the owners to consider trading him which I'm not sure they are at this time.

If they are offering you crap in return, then don't trade him but I think he should at least be considered.
- stevens87

Okay...so again, given the factors that I listed, and being as you obviously want him gone, please tell me what return you think they can get that will improve the team as a whole within the next 3 years.

You can't just say, "We need to trade him," without an idea of who to trade him and for what. I mean, you can, but it's not really worth discussing if you don't have a solution.

Okay...so again, given the factors that I listed, and being as you obviously want him gone, please tell me what return you think they can get that will improve the team as a whole within the next 3 years.

You can't just say, "We need to trade him," without an idea of who to trade him and for what. I mean, you can, but it's not really worth discussing if you don't have a solution.
- jmatchett383

OK, I'd trade him for a young player like the Flyers have in Provolov or Konecny, as the main parts of a trade. I know Provolov had a down year but the high potential is there. Do you think the the Flyers would even consider that?

OK, I'd trade him for a young player like the Flyers have in Provolov or Konecny, as the main parts of a trade. I know Provolov had a down year but the high potential is there. Do you think the the Flyers would even consider that?
- stevens87

That is a ridiculous trade that the Flyers would never make. One, the Flyers are in no rush to move either of those players (again, Pens would not be in the driver's seat), and secondly, they Flyers are in a rebuilding stage, so why would they trade 2 players that are 21 years old for a guy in his 30s? Third, down year as it was, Provorov will probably be better than Letang in the next few years, when the Flyers plan to contend.

This is what I mean. It's not just, 'Trade Letang for a few good players."

Two realistic teams that you could trade him to would be Vegas and Toronto. But Toronto is likely gonna have cap issues, so you'd have to eat some of his contract.

That is a ridiculous trade that the Flyers would never make. One, the Flyers are in no rush to move either of those players (again, Pens would not be in the driver's seat), and secondly, they Flyers are in a rebuilding stage, so why would they trade 2 players that are 21 years old for a guy in his 30s? Third, down year as it was, Provorov will probably be better than Letang in the next few years, when the Flyers plan to contend.

This is what I mean. It's not just, 'Trade Letang for a few good players."

Two realistic teams that you could trade him to would be Vegas and Toronto. But Toronto is likely gonna have cap issues, so you'd have to eat some of his contract.
- jmatchett383

It's silly to even know what other teams will give up but if he is that valuable like you said, my guess is teams would be fighting to get him, right?

And it just takes two teams to bid against each other to make the return high.

That is a ridiculous trade that the Flyers would never make. One, the Flyers are in no rush to move either of those players (again, Pens would not be in the driver's seat), and secondly, they Flyers are in a rebuilding stage, so why would they trade 2 players that are 21 years old for a guy in his 30s? Third, down year as it was, Provorov will probably be better than Letang in the next few years, when the Flyers plan to contend.

This is what I mean. It's not just, 'Trade Letang for a few good players."

Two realistic teams that you could trade him to would be Vegas and Toronto. But Toronto is likely gonna have cap issues, so you'd have to eat some of his contract.
- jmatchett383

Don’t you think the label of rebuild is over for them? To me saying a team is rebuilding is anticipating a bottom 10 finish. I haven’t been shy about it, big AV fan. Sure he has flaws but I’m hoping he learned from them. I think the Flyers will start to take off. Plenty of options on the market to plug holes in that roster, don’t you think?

This. He was lauded earlier in his career for being able to get back into the play and cover up some errors he made. Everyone ignored the fact that if he hadn't made the error in the first place he'd have no reason to recover.

He still makes the errors, he just isn't as good at covering them up.

I don't want him traded. He is still the Pens best option for 1D, mistakes and all.
- Thorny87

Letang Was a +27 goal differential at 5v5 this season. It was his best goal differential at even strength in the last 8 seasons, probably more but I stopped at 2013 when I realized the facts showed that this debate about his mistakes is completely overblown and exaggerated. Letang isn’t a problem. He’s not even part of the problem. It’s dumb to think otherwise.

Don’t you think the label of rebuild is over for them? To me saying a team is rebuilding is anticipating a bottom 10 finish. I haven’t been shy about it, big AV fan. Sure he has flaws but I’m hoping he learned from them. I think the Flyers will start to take off. Plenty of options on the market to plug holes in that roster, don’t you think?
- WSCTeton17

Maybe not the right term, but they are a young(ish) team that is looking to open a window in the near future, and trading top young players for short-term fixes is not in their best interests.

It's silly to even know what other teams will give up but if he is that valuable like you said, my guess is teams would be fighting to get him, right?

And it just takes two teams to bid against each other to make the return high.
- stevens87

If you want him gone, why do you think teams would be fighting over him?

You tear him down and expose his flaws but then want a high return for him. Can't have it both ways.

Maybe not the right term, but they are a young(ish) team that is looking to open a window in the near future, and trading top young players for short-term fixes is not in their best interests.
- jmatchett383

Personally I like a lot of pieces of the flyers roster. Some of those guys are so much fun to watch.

If you want him gone, why do you think teams would be fighting over him?

You tear him down and expose his flaws but then want a high return for him. Can't have it both ways.
- jmatchett383

Well I think and say doesn't matter, it's what GMJR believes and if he can convince other GMs that Letang still has a high value. If he wants to trade him, he'll build him up and say he is as good as he was before.

Let me ask you, what do you think Letang would bring back in a trade?

Well I think and say doesn't matter, it's what GMJR believes and if he can convince other GMs that Letang still has a high value. If he wants to trade him, he'll build him up and say he is as good as he was before.

Let me ask you, what do you think Letang would bring back in a trade?
- stevens87

And he wouldn’t be wrong. So let’s not make the mistake of trading a top 10-15 DMan.

And he wouldn’t be wrong. So let’s not make the mistake of trading a top 10-15 DMan.
- j.boyd919

Nah. We won the cup without him. We can do it again.

Nah. We won the cup without him. We can do it again.
- Rinosaur

Dude had one of his best statistical seasons in his career.

Lets all say it together:

Facts don't care about your feelings.

Dude had one of his best statistical seasons in his career.

Lets all say it together:

Facts don't care about your feelings.
- j.boyd919

You're right and that facts are they won a Cup without him two years ago with a patched up D core.

You're right and that facts are they won a Cup without him two years ago with a patched up D core.
- stevens87

Won a cup without Guentzel in 2009. Trade him too.

Won a cup without Guentzel in 2009. Trade him too.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm sorry how is that relative to Letang? Guentzel was 15 in 2009.

I'm sorry how is that relative to Letang? Guentzel was 15 in 2009.
- stevens87

Won two cups without Crosby and Malkin in 1991 and 1992. Should probably trade both of them too.

Won two cups without Crosby and Malkin in 1991 and 1992. Should probably trade both of them too.
- j.boyd919

Wow you are grasping for straws!

I'm sorry how is that relative to Letang? Guentzel was 15 in 2009.
- stevens87

The Penguins won a cup with Ron Hainsey as a top pair defenseman.

Ron Hainsey is a legit top-pair defenseman on a Cup contender.

Dude had one of his best statistical seasons in his career.

Lets all say it together:

Facts don't care about your feelings.
- j.boyd919

You know I was kidding, right?

You're right and that facts are they won a Cup without him two years ago with a patched up D core.
- stevens87

Anomalies in sports do happen. It doesn't mean you should count on it every year. Letang was great in the 15/16 cup run.

The reason people don't agree with trading Letang is because there isn't a realistic path to replace his production and role at his cap hit.

Anomalies in sports do happen. It doesn't mean you should count on it every year. Letang was great in the 15/16 cup run.

The reason people don't agree with trading Letang is because there isn't a realistic path to replace his production and role at his cap hit.
- madmike71

I just want to add: "for the rest of Sidney Crosby's productive years."