In a franchise that is so short on talent and sonlacking in depth, we should focus on dumping our bums and boat anchors before we send guys packing because they aren’t special.
- Der Kaiser

Botts brought in dahlin
Pilut
And about 4 or 5 other LD

That does not bold well for McCabe long term

How does that fit on a team with Dahlin and Montour? Ideally, you want all 3 to get ozone starts. It just doesn't fit together for me.

PP specialist on a 2nd unit that doesn't see much ice time has a lot less value. I'd be fine with a deal that brought back a D that fits this team better.
- Lunaion

I agree, I think Montour makes Risto redundant. Theyre both 2nd pair, RHD, PP guys imo. But if the return sucks this year, they need to suck it up and play Risto in a 3rd pair role for 15 minutes a night, give him 60-65% o zone starts in a 3rd pair role where he's overpaid, and watch his value skyrocket.

But if there's a nice return for him this off-season, you take it

%💯
- Der Kaiser

perfect

Botts brought in dahlin
Pilut
And about 4 or 5 other LD

That does not bold well for McCabe long term
- homiedclown

True, but in the meantime he dumped Guhle and Buealieu, and Hunwick was just a way of keeping Sheary's price really cheap.

I have no clue what the problem is

But at some point anyone not named eichel that was brought in before botts is under the microscope


As long as we suck


Winning cures everything
- homiedclown

I think we see 7 or 8 new faces from last years starting line up.

Montour
Goaloffson
5 more guys

Botts brought in dahlin
Pilut
And about 4 or 5 other LD

That does not bold well for McCabe long term
- homiedclown

But McCabe was captain under housley for team USA .......


Nevermind

Is this legit ? I’d assume we’d have to add our two first rounders this year to this as well just to tempt them.
- Pegullaville

Et tu brute?
Eichel (when invested) is more physical and better defensively than McJesus. So you're willing to give up the 2 first rounders for the 30 or so more points McD scores than Jack.

But McCabe was captain under housley for team USA .......


Nevermind
- Boss34

Ouch babe right in the eye.

2 RHD and a LHD. All your missing is a LHD and you have a top 4.


- Der Kaiser

I'd think you'd want a top 4 that plays better defense than that.

Risto is not capital-s Special, but he is a RHD, PP specialist with a mean streak, which makes him uncommon. He's an offensive defenseman who doesn't get offensive zone starts at the rate he should. I do think we should trade him to get 1 or more good forwards which we need, but if Botterill doesn't get the return Risto warrants, hold on to him and use him properly. His value will go back up
- jcragcrumple

Over the last 3 seasons he’s 22nd in the league in O zone starts for D men.

He’s 9th in PP time during that span.

The only thing that will happen with “using him properly” will be his point total and reputation going downward

I agree, I think Montour makes Risto redundant. Theyre both 2nd pair, RHD, PP guys imo. But if the return sucks this year, they need to suck it up and play Risto in a 3rd pair role for 15 minutes a night, give him 60-65% o zone starts in a 3rd pair role where he's overpaid, and watch his value skyrocket.

But if there's a nice return for him this off-season, you take it
- jcragcrumple

Awkward topics for sure. Is it better for the team to give Risto more ozone starts at the expense of Dahlin and Montour? Would Risto thrive in a reduced role, or would it have a negative effect? Who actually kills PP's, now that we've determined our top d men are no good at it?

I know I fear that less overall and PP minutes will cut into his point total and hurt his trade value.

Over the last 3 seasons he’s 22nd in the league in O zone starts for D men.

He’s 9th in PP time during that span.

The only thing that will happen with “using him properly” will be his point total and reputation going downward
- sbroads24

How much did Norris winner Brent Burns start in the Offensive zone this year?

63%

How about Norris winner Erik Karlsson?

59%

How about offensive defenseman Ristolainen?

46%

How many times has Risto been over 50%

Once.

All stats even strength per hockey reference

Awkward topics for sure. Is it better for the team to give Risto more ozone starts at the expense of Dahlin and Montour? Would Risto thrive in a reduced role, or would it have a negative effect? Who actually kills PP's, now that we've determined our top d men are no good at it?

I know I fear that less overall and PP minutes will cut into his point total and hurt his trade value.
- Lunaion

If you read the Die By the Blade Article his XG/60 stats get much better as his time goes down.

How much did Norris winner Brent Burns start in the Offensive zone this year?

63%

How about Norris winner Erik Karlsson?

59%

How about offensive defenseman Ristolainen?

46%

How many times has Risto been over 50%

Once.

All stats even strength per hockey reference
- jcragcrumple

But what relevance does that have?

Start him at 60% in the O-zone but cut his minutes and that at the very best keeps his production exactly the same?

Unless he’s paired with Dahlin he isn’t going to be the primary D man out with the Eichel line like he was up until January of this year

Et tu brute?
Eichel (when invested) is more physical and better defensively than McJesus. So you're willing to give up the 2 first rounders for the 30 or so more points McD scores than Jack.
- joevthree

McDavid is the best player in the world, will be the best player since Gretzky once his career is over. I’m the biggest Eichel supporter there is on this site but yes, I would move Eichel, Risto, Nylander and the two first rounders for McDavid.

But what relevance does that have?

Start him at 60% in the O-zone but cut his minutes and that at the very best keeps his production exactly the same?

Unless he’s paired with Dahlin he isn’t going to be the primary D man out with the Eichel line like he was up until January of this year
- sbroads24

Proper useage makes players better. Brent Burns isn't winning the Norris at 46% o zone starts. He won it at 58.5%

Ristolainen is an offensive defenseman. He has to be used properly. This shouldn't even be a controversial opinion

Proper useage makes players better. Brent Burns isn't winning the Norris at 46% o zone starts. He won it at 58.5%

Ristolainen is an offensive defenseman. He has to be used properly. This shouldn't even be a controversial opinion
- jcragcrumple

Sure, I’m saying in terms of upping his value.

Right now teams might think he’s still a top pair d man who’s been badly coached on bad teams.

Turning him into a 17-20 minute 4-5 D man won’t up his value. It will just it obvious he’s grossly overpaid

Sure, I’m saying in terms of upping his value.

Right now teams might think he’s still a top pair d man who’s been badly coached on bad teams.

Turning him into a 17-20 minute 4-5 D man won’t up his value. It will just it obvious he’s grossly overpaid
- sbroads24

If he plays 18 minutes a night at 60% o zone starts, he'll score close to 50p and his +/- will drastically improve. His value will skyrocket

If he plays 18 minutes a night at 60% o zone starts, he'll score close to 50p and his +/- will drastically improve. His value will skyrocket
- jcragcrumple

Is there any math to back this up?

He’s losing 500 minutes and losing total O zone starts is going to make him score more? With also possibly being off PP1?

Is there any D man in the NHL like that?

Sure, I’m saying in terms of upping his value.

Right now teams might think he’s still a top pair d man who’s been badly coached on bad teams.

Turning him into a 17-20 minute 4-5 D man won’t up his value. It will just it obvious he’s grossly overpaid
- sbroads24

If only Tim Murray was a patient putz...

I think Risto would be a fine #4 and I don’t think he’s overpaid by much at $5.4M but he needs the right usage and the right partner (Pilut) that is strong at zone exits and puck possession. If Risto can bring in the right player he’s definitely movable but we shouldn’t be moving him for the sake of moving him.

Is there any math to back this up?

He’s losing 500 minutes and losing total O zone starts is going to make him score more? With also possibly being off PP1?

Is there any D man in the NHL like that?
- sbroads24

Well don't do that, for sure. And the increased o zone starts will put him in a better position to do what he's actually good at.

Again, is Brent Burns winning the Norris with Risto's useage? Absolutely not. Is Risto going to win the Norris with Burns's useage? Absolutely not, but he's gonna look a whole lot better

If you read the Die By the Blade Article his XG/60 stats get much better as his time goes down.
- Der Kaiser

If only it was that simple. It's not quite what it said and even strength TOI is a weird measure that gets skewed heavily by the number of penalties called and OT. It's interesting, but I don't think it's an indication of how he'd perform as a true 3rd pair d.

Well don't do that, for sure. And the increased o zone starts will put him in a better position to do what he's actually good at.

Again, is Brent Burns winning the Norris with Risto's useage? Absolutely not. Is Risto going to win the Norris with Burns's useage? Absolutely not, but he's gonna look a whole lot better
- jcragcrumple

Most coaches use four forwards on the PP. And if by chance they bring in a good forward I’d say it’s almost a certainty.

Again, I agree with the premise that it’s better for him/Sabres.

But it’s also telling the NHL he isn’t a top flight D man.

If only it was that simple. It's not quite what it said and even strength TOI is a weird measure that gets skewed heavily by the number of penalties called and OT. It's interesting, but I don't think it's an indication of how he'd perform as a true 3rd pair d.
- Lunaion

There’s just no reason not to trade him unless the offers aren’t there.

They didn’t trade a first and decent prospect for Montour, not to give him a lot of ice time and PP time

There’s just no reason not to trade him unless the offers aren’t there.

They didn’t trade a first and decent prospect for Montour, not to give him a lot of ice time and PP time
- sbroads24

The idea of keeping him and using him on the 3rd pair is bizarre to me. If you think that's best for the team, I don't see how you don't deal him.

Agree that he doesn't fit on the same team as Montour.