What’s considered the real world???


Am I right or what Beady?
- washedup20

The real world is where Ristolainen is a 4-6 D Man.

Fantasy land is where our coaching staff/management has been living for the better part of a decade, hence our record

Hakstol should of fell on the sword last year instead of Hextall. He might work out as an assistant, however the uninspired play from that team until he was fired raises alarm bells to me. The game that Philly came to buffalo and Larry scored a goal and fought someone the next whistle was an absolute joke. They were pathetic that night and the Sabres scored 4 goals before half the people in that building grabbed a beer.
- Pegullaville

All of these coaches have bad losses on their record.

The past 2 years our assistants and head coach had zero experience.

Some experience should help. Coaches learn

His advanced stats would improve from playing less with Jack and Skinner indeed. Quite often it's like playing short handed with those two in the defensive zone. Your blind hatred for Risto is well documented as is your love of analytics. What's lacking is your ability to see that Risto is not the problem. You could put Hedman, Karlsson, Burns or Doughty in Risto's position and they too would have bad analytics.
- adambuffalo

Those guys are premier dmen in the league, Risto is not even on that level. I think our team would be drastically improved if you replaced Risto with any of those players, and I don't think their stats would decrease that badly.

Those guys are premier dmen in the league, Risto is not even on that level. I think our team would be drastically improved if you replaced Risto with any of those players, and I don't think their stats would decrease that badly.
- Sabres1523

And if you put Risto on a team like TB and he could have been a +45 with positive corsi and fenwick and people here would want to trade for him.

What flavor gum do you think Big Swede likes?

Hakstol should of fell on the sword last year instead of Hextall. He might work out as an assistant, however the uninspired play from that team until he was fired raises alarm bells to me. The game that Philly came to buffalo and Larry scored a goal and fought someone the next whistle was an absolute joke. They were pathetic that night and the Sabres scored 4 goals before half the people in that building grabbed a beer.
- Pegullaville

I'm only talking about Hak as an assistant to Gronborg. And I think I would prefer him to Davis (frank)ing Payne. And since Gron and Hak know each other, it could be a good partnership. In addition, I would keep Steve Smith behind the bench too and find a different assistant than Hajt upstairs.

And if you put Risto on a team like TB and he could have been a +45 with positive corsi and fenwick and people here would want to trade for him.
- adambuffalo

He wouldn't playing the role say Hedman is now on TB. My point is I don't think bringing in any of those players you mentioned would cause their stats to tank as bad as Risto's are currently.

What flavor gum do you think Big Swede likes?
- TheSabresTaco

Too risky.

One errant chew, and he's digging gum out of his beard for weeks

He wouldn't playing the role say Hedman is now on TB. My point is I don't think bringing in any of those players you mentioned would cause their stats to tank as bad as Risto's are currently.
- Sabres1523

That's where we disagree. Take Karlsson on a bad Sens team last year. 62 points and -25. This year 45 pts and +6 in 53 games. I wouldn't trade Risto for Karlsson straight up right now.

That's where we disagree. Take Karlsson on a bad Sens team last year. 62 points and -25. This year 45 pts and +6 in 53 games. I wouldn't trade Risto for Karlsson straight up right now.
- adambuffalo

Except Karlsson’s numbers relative to his teammates have always been drastically better despite the quality of his team.

Why aren’t Risto’s numbers significantly better than Jake McCabe’s?

That's where we disagree. Take Karlsson on a bad Sens team last year. 62 points and -25. This year 45 pts and +6 in 53 games. I wouldn't trade Risto for Karlsson straight up right now.
- adambuffalo

If Risto put up 62 points and drove play like EK does I could care less if he was -40, I would deal Risto for EK straight up all day long that's a big win for the Sabres IMO.
EKs season this year would work out to 69 points and +9 over 82 games, not sure you can get much better production than that.
I like Risto as a player but I just feel like hes not good enough to be a top dman and I don't see how his game will change at this point in his career. Yes hes only 24 but hes played over 400 games, I think this is who he is at this point.
Hes a offensive dman that is less than stellar in his own end, and does not produce enough offence to make up for his bad dzone play. Also he's not very good at getting the puck cleanly out of our zone, which is a huge issue for any dman playing a significant role on any team.

He wouldn't playing the role say Hedman is now on TB. My point is I don't think bringing in any of those players you mentioned would cause their stats to tank as bad as Risto's are currently.
- Sabres1523

The question is: why are we trying to make Risto something he's not? Why are we not using him properly?

Maybe that's part of the reason why we're looking for a coach.

I posted the favorable starts of some other offensive defensemen (who still play 20 minutes, but start 60+ % of the time in the o zone), but here's another example: Would Shayne Gostisbehere have been nominated for the calder without 63% o zone starts. Absolutely not. To deny that using Risto properly would increase his effectiveness and value is to deny reality

I'm only talking about Hak as an assistant to Gronborg. And I think I would prefer him to Davis (frank)ing Payne. And since Gron and Hak know each other, it could be a good partnership. In addition, I would keep Steve Smith behind the bench too and find a different assistant than Hajt upstairs.
- mhp

Mph- I liked Steve Smith as a player for the Oilers, aside from the own goal.

Not sure what he did last year with our d? We looked really confused and flat out bad at hockey.

Maybe it was Phil, but am I missing something?

The question is: why are we trying to make Risto something he's not? Why are we not using him properly?

Maybe that's part of the reason why we're looking for a coach.

I posted the favorable starts of some other offensive defensemen (who still play 20 minutes, but start 60+ % of the time in the o zone), but here's another example: Would Shayne Gostisbehere have been nominated for the calder without 63% o zone starts. Absolutely not. To deny that using Risto properly would increase his effectiveness and value is to deny reality
- jcragcrumple

I don't deny that if he was used differently he could improve, Id like to see them play him around 18 mins a night mostly in the ozone and the PP. My point was that if you replaced Risto with Hedman that Hedman would have bad stats same as Risto. Those guys he mentioned are on another level compared to Risto.
That said, if we cant get a Huberdeau level player in excahnge for Risto, Id rather keep him and see if a change in deployment does him any good.

The question is: why are we trying to make Risto something he's not? Why are we not using him properly?

Maybe that's part of the reason why we're looking for a coach.

I posted the favorable starts of some other offensive defensemen (who still play 20 minutes, but start 60+ % of the time in the o zone), but here's another example: Would Shayne Gostisbehere have been nominated for the calder without 63% o zone starts. Absolutely not. To deny that using Risto properly would increase his effectiveness and value is to deny reality
- jcragcrumple

Who’s denying this?

And again, literally the only reason he has a reputation of being good is because his draft status and getting premier ice time.

That’s not the same as the other players mentioned.

When you score the same amount of 5 on 5 goals as Jake McCabe over a 3 year period, playing hundreds of more minutes, I don’t have time to listen to how great you are offensively.

I don't deny that if he was used differently he could improve, Id like to see them play him around 18 mins a night mostly in the ozone and the PP. My point was that if you replaced Risto with Hedman that Hedman would have bad stats same as Risto. Those guys he mentioned are on another level compared to Risto.
That said, if we cant get a Huberdeau level player in excahnge for Risto, Id rather keep him and see if a change in deployment does him any good.
- Sabres1523

Part of the reason we suck is because Risto plays so much

Mph- I liked Steve Smith as a player for the Oilers, aside from the own goal.

Not sure what he did last year with our d? We looked really confused and flat out bad at hockey.

Maybe it was Phil, but am I missing something?
- Boss34

I read somewhere (maybe Friedman in his 31 thoughts) that Botts and the players like him and that he should stay on with the new HC.

Who’s denying this?

And again, literally the only reason he has a reputation of being good is because his draft status and getting premier ice time.

That’s not the same as the other players mentioned.

When you score the same amount of 5 on 5 goals as Jake McCabe over a 3 year period, playing hundreds of more minutes, I don’t have time to listen to how great you are offensively.
- sbroads24

You, yesterday

"The only thing that will happen with “using him properly” will be his point total and reputation going downward"

I'm sold.
- mhp

You went cheaper than expected.

You, yesterday

"The only thing that will happen with “using him properly” will be his point total and reputation going downward"
- jcragcrumple

In terms of his value around the league yes

I read somewhere (maybe Friedman in his 31 thoughts) that Botts and the players like him and that he should stay on with the new HC.
- mhp

If there is a sense of continuity I guess?

Players like him, hopefully they play hard for him.

Sounds like the Swede, his assistant and 1 more coach?

Lindy r perhaps?

In terms of his value around the league yes
- sbroads24

Sorry, Shayne Gostisbehere, we can't nominate you for the Calder because your zone starts were too favorable.

Sorry, Brent Burns, we can't nominate you for the Norris because your zone starts were too favorable.

Those aren't reasonable statements. Value increases as positive stats improve.

His value won't go down because he does better. That's just not how these things work

The question is: why are we trying to make Risto something he's not? Why are we not using him properly?

- jcragcrumple

That's an easy one. You're asking a coaching staff to admit failure and that a great athlete is not going to meet his potential.

Giving Casey Nelson some of Risto's minutes is not nearly as easy to do as it is to write. It's accepting defeat.

Sorry, Shayne Gostisbehere, we can't nominate you for the Calder because your zone starts were too favorable.

Sorry, Brent Burns, we can't nominate you for the Norris because your zone starts were too favorable.

Those aren't reasonable statements. Value increases as positive stats improve.

His value won't go down because he does better. That's just not how these things work
- jcragcrumple

No it will go down because he’s going from our number 1 D to 3-5. And his point totals will decrease.

Can you tell me how Dion Phanuef did when Toronto realized he wasn’t a top D?

Did his point totals increase with less ice time and favorable starts ?

That's an easy one. You're asking a coaching staff to admit failure and that a great athlete is not going to meet his potential.

Giving Casey Nelson some of Risto's minutes is not nearly as easy to do as it is to write. It's accepting defeat.
- Lunaion

How is Brent Burns playing all these minutes at over 60% o zone starts?

Let's do that with Risto