You mean the career average that he coincidentally produced much more than when given ice time with Eichel?

He played on our top line. He scored 40 goals and 63 points on our top line.

Like who gives a (frank) about career average
- OneKaneOneCup

His goals go as his shooting percentage goes.

I have zero faith he keeps it up as his trend is every other year.

His goals go as his shooting percentage goes.

I have zero faith he keeps it up as his trend is every other year.
- dadeadhead

He shot 3.8% above career.

A good shooter playing with a set up guy like Eichel hitting 15% isn’t really that unsustainable

You aren’t going to make the argument that goals and all assists are equal, right?

Who would you take, Ovechkin or Wheeler? Ovechkin hasn’t had 40 assists in about 10 years
- OneKaneOneCup

Ovechkin isn't a one dimensional scorer though. His teams also didn't have success until he developed his all around game. He plays a physical game and racked up 38 assists this year. How much value did Skinner provide the Sabres when he didn't score ? Goals are worth more then assists but not as much as you make them seem. Reinhart plays a much better game in all three zones then Skinner and we would win more games with him leading a line then Skinner.

He shot 3.8% above career.

A good shooter playing with a set up guy like Eichel hitting 15% isn’t really that unsustainable
- OneKaneOneCup

I see him back to the 28-32 goal guy with a % in the 14.5 range.

Law of averages. He wasn’t as good of a goal scorer when he was 3rd in the league and he’s not as bad of a goal scorer when he went snake bitten 1 for seemingly all of 2019.

He shot 3.8% above career.

A good shooter playing with a set up guy like Eichel hitting 15% isn’t really that unsustainable
- OneKaneOneCup

He was up 40% over his previous career average. It's not reasonable to think that's sustainable.

I see him back to the 28-32 goal guy with a % in the 14.5 range.

Law of averages. He wasn’t as good of a goal scorer when he was 3rd in the league and he’s not as bad of a goal scorer when he went snake bitten 1 for seemingly all of 2019.
- dadeadhead

I’d put him in the 30-35 minimum with Jack, 25-30 without

He wasn’t with Eichel all year. Eichel missed games and wasn’t with Skinner the first 5.

Not to mention the other center he had for 10 games was awful for a top 6 guy

He was up 40% over his previous career average. It's not reasonable to think that's sustainable.
- Lunaion

I’d say Eichel is 40% better than Riley Nash and Victor Rask though.

Elite centers have a HUGE impact on sh%

I’d put him in the 30-35 minimum with Jack, 25-30 without

He wasn’t with Eichel all year. Eichel missed games and wasn’t with Skinner the first 5.

Not to mention the other center he had for 10 games was awful for a top 6 guy
- OneKaneOneCup

I don’t see him as a Buffalo Sabre next year honestly.

I don’t see him as a Buffalo Sabre next year honestly.
- dadeadhead

I still feel good about it but it definitely possible

I think it would be silly to let him walk over a 500k-1 mil difference

Is this hypothetical legal:

Duchene signs on July 1, for 7 years, 9 mil with Ottawa.

July 2, Ottawa trades Duchene at 50% retained to the sabres for our late first - the draft is before that, so ignore the specific pick. Just the concept
- jcragcrumple

NHL would void it for circumvention.

Last two years Skinner has 46 ES goals to Tkachuk's 28. I agree Tkachuk is better but it's really only because Tkachuk is slightly above average defensively and Skinner is what most one dimensional forwards are, bad.
- Sabresfan-365

Tkachuk also plays on a team that, you know, scores goals.

I’d say Eichel is 40% better than Riley Nash and Victor Rask though.

Elite centers have a HUGE impact on sh%
- OneKaneOneCup

You hope. It's just too optimistic to hope he settles in at his career high. We all saw firsthand how hot he was followed by how cold he was. Even if he regresses to 12%, it's a 10% improvement over his career average. That is a massive increase.

You hope. It's just too optimistic to hope he settles in at his career high. We all saw firsthand how hot he was followed by how cold he was. Even if he regresses to 12%, it's a 10% improvement over his career average. That is a massive increase.
- Lunaion

I don’t think 12% is overly optimistic at all if he’s Eichel’s line mate.

Even if he isn’t and is on another line he’s still a guy who will generate chance/goals/penalties.

They really can’t afford to let him walk

I don’t think 12% is overly optimistic at all if he’s Eichel’s line mate.

Even if he isn’t and is on another line he’s still a guy who will generate chance/goals/penalties.

They really can’t afford to let him walk
- OneKaneOneCup

Agreed.

Um Skinner has 52 and Tkachuk has 37.


I’d take Tkachuk 100xs out of a 100 over Skinner.
- dadeadhead

Corsica and evolving hockey have them at 46 and 29

I assume you used hockey reference? Id be curious to know what the discrepancy is.

Tkachuk also plays on a team that, you know, scores goals.
- Wetbandit1

Agreed, just that for me personally, the gap between skinner and tkachuks offence isn't nearly as big as the gap defensively.

I like them both tbh

Agreed, just that for me personally, the gap between skinner and tkachuks offence isn't nearly as big as the gap defensively.

I like them both tbh
- Sabresfan-365

Defense is just way tougher to measure.

He’s obviously better in that regard.

But I can accurately measure how much better Skinner drives scoring chances for.

Tkachuk plays with two other two way forwards in Backlund and Lindholm

I don’t think 12% is overly optimistic at all if he’s Eichel’s line mate.

Even if he isn’t and is on another line he’s still a guy who will generate chance/goals/penalties.

They really can’t afford to let him walk
- OneKaneOneCup

I like the points you're making here and previously, OKOC.

Agreed, just that for me personally, the gap between skinner and tkachuks offence isn't nearly as big as the gap defensively.

I like them both tbh
- Sabresfan-365

I’ve always had the opinion that people severely over rate two way players.

People act like Skinner just takes a nap in the D zone

Takeaways

Skinner - 53

Tkachuk - 37

That’s defense

Agreed, just that for me personally, the gap between skinner and tkachuks offence isn't nearly as big as the gap defensively.

I like them both tbh
- Sabresfan-365

I'd much rather have either Tkachuk than Skinner, but that seems irrelevant. Skinner is the one we have a chance to keep and I want to.

I like the points you're making here and previously, OKOC.
- PrinceChill

Maybe you’ll like me when I go back to my main account

Maybe you’ll like me when I go back to my main account
- OneKaneOneCup

Make the same points and I ought to.

Defense is just way tougher to measure.

He’s obviously better in that regard.

But I can accurately measure how much better Skinner drives scoring chances for.

Tkachuk plays with two other two way forwards in Backlund and Lindholm
- OneKaneOneCup

Agreed, its easier to measure the offence. but Tkachuks CA and XGA has been fairly good his entire career, regardless of what line he's been on.

In a 3 year sample, the numbers are good enough to suggest that he's at least equally responsible for his lines defensive play.

I'd much rather have either Tkachuk than Skinner, but that seems irrelevant. Skinner is the one we have a chance to keep and I want to.
- Lunaion

A lot of what is discussed here is, still fun occasionally.

I’ve always had the opinion that people severely over rate two way players.

People act like Skinner just takes a nap in the D zone

Takeaways

Skinner - 53

Tkachuk - 37

That’s defense
- OneKaneOneCup

Tkachuk is 21 years old and far from a finished product. Can you imagine what he’s going to be doing at 26 ? Skinner is a good player, as you mentioned a fantastic goal scorer, for the amount of money he’s going to get Im not going to apologize for expecting more from him.

This fan base tears Eichel apart yet he finished top 5 in SOG and still managed to have 50+ assists for $10M. Looking at comparables for Skinner he should be in the $7.5-8M range per year.