Tkachuk is 21 years old and far from a finished product. Can you imagine what he’s going to be doing at 26 ? Skinner is a good player, as you mentioned a fantastic goal scorer, for the amount of money he’s going to get Im not going to apologize for expecting more from him.

This fan base tears Eichel apart yet he finished top 5 in SOG and still managed to have 50+ assists for $10M. Looking at comparables for Skinner he should be in the $7.5-8M range per year.
- Pegullaville

That wasn’t the debate though.

I’d of course take Tkachuk long term.

Outside of point totals, it’s pretty impossible to argue IMO that Tkachuk is better today

Defense is just way tougher to measure.

He’s obviously better in that regard.

But I can accurately measure how much better Skinner drives scoring chances for.

Tkachuk plays with two other two way forwards in Backlund and Lindholm
- OneKaneOneCup

Lindholm played with Monahan and Gaudreau.

A lot of what is discussed here is, still fun occasionally.
- Sabresfan-365

A viable way to get either Tkachuk would be more fun. They both bring exactly what Eichel needs in a linemate.

The one thing people need to remember is that Jeff skinner actually wants to play here.

Until b-lo becomes more than the city south of Lockport, it doesn’t really matter about advanced stats and wishful thinking. If stars don’t wanna come here, what are you going to do?

Lindholm played with Monahan and Gaudreau.
- Pegullaville

You’re right.

They switched in playoffs though because Bennett was on line 1 a lot of the time

Is this hypothetical legal:

Duchene signs on July 1, for 7 years, 9 mil with Ottawa.

July 2, Ottawa trades Duchene at 50% retained to the sabres for our late first - the draft is before that, so ignore the specific pick. Just the concept
- jcragcrumple

Yeah, kind of
It’s not against the letter of the law
But obviously there would be an agreement in place between Duchene, Ottawa & Us that the league might not like

I think the issue would come down to Ottawa not wanting to pay 4.5mil per year in real money
So the contract would have to be written out in a way where his salary is like 1mil per year, but then all the bonuses are paid by us on a yearly basis...
that way Ottawa still gets the 4.5mil Cap hit, but only pays .5mil per year in real money

That’s where the league could step in & deny it for Cap Circumvention reasons

That wasn’t the debate though.

I’d of course take Tkachuk long term.

Outside of point totals, it’s pretty impossible to argue IMO that Tkachuk is better today
- OneKaneOneCup

Creating scoring chances is fantastic but what analytics doesn’t measure is quality of those chances.

Skinner shoots everything and anything at the net. There is no denying that he has mastered his craft, but don’t you think it’s a coincidence that Eichel’s shooting percentage went up dramatically once he had another player that could slow down the game and find him in open spots in Reinhart ?

Eichel’s whole game when the “J crew” line was together was manhandling possession and creating scoring chances for Skinner and Pominville (who would of scored 25 if he played a full 82 on that line). I wish Skinner would have less scoring chances if it meant maintaining possession and finding Eichel on a back door feed.

Creating scoring chances is fantastic but what analytics doesn’t measure is quality of those chances.

Skinner shoots everything and anything at the net. There is no denying that he has mastered his craft, but don’t you think it’s a coincidence that Eichel’s shooting percentage went up dramatically once he had another player that could slow down the game and find him in open spots in Reinhart ?

Eichel’s whole game when the “J crew” line was together was manhandling possession and creating scoring chances for Skinner and Pominville (who would of scored 25 if he played a full 82 on that line). I wish Skinner would have less scoring chances if it meant maintaining possession and finding Eichel on a back door feed.
- Pegullaville

And it worked.

I mean seriously, come on. Pommer/Eichel/Skinner was literally one of the best lines in hockey for 3 months almost.

You’re acting like it was a failed experiment

That wasn’t the debate though.

I’d of course take Tkachuk long term.

Outside of point totals, it’s pretty impossible to argue IMO that Tkachuk is better today
- OneKaneOneCup

Not sure what makes you think this is so one-sided. I think Tkachuk is easily the better player, and I'm a big advocate of Skinner.

And it worked.

I mean seriously, come on. Pommer/Eichel/Skinner was literally one of the best lines in hockey for 3 months almost.

You’re acting like it was a failed experiment
- OneKaneOneCup

Jack Eichel is a special hockey player. I don’t think for one second that JVR or Pacioretty couldn’t of done the same thing playing with Jack (both were rumoured to Buffalo this past offseason) What is the value for a guy like Skinner ? JVR and Patches are $7M players. A broken down Pominville produced like a 1RW on that line. Is it worth spending $9M who is more a passenger then a line driver ? Even Reinhart had success away from Eichel and Jeff had a hard time creating any space for himself unless he was with Jack.

Which is fine if you feel that way. I’d disagree

But the fact of the matter is Skinner was top 3 in goals until Eichel got hurt and he messed up his ankle.

Hes top 3 in 5 on 5 goals over the past three seasons.

It’s a must he’s kept
- OneKaneOneCup

That’s INARGUABLY a really big deal
Especially for a team who struggles to score as much as we do

Not sure what makes you think this is so one-sided. I think Tkachuk is easily the better player, and I'm a big advocate of Skinner.
- Lunaion

Tkachuk is inferior offensively by a margin

Takes more penalties
Draws less penalties
Creates less chances
Less shots
Less goals
Less EV goals

For Skinner being such a one dimensional player he had 4 less primary assists.

Offensively it’s really no contest

Vasily Glotov | #77

C | 5' 11" | 180 lb | Age: 21 | Buffalo Sabres


Guy has rockets on his skates.....Max Afinagenov like, but uses speed North to South

Tkachuk is inferior offensively by a margin

Takes more penalties
Draws less penalties
Creates less chances
Less shots
Less goals
Less EV goals

For Skinner being such a one dimensional player he had 4 less primary assists.

Offensively it’s really no contest
- OneKaneOneCup

idk about others but when i refer to dimensions its usually in the braoder offence vs defence sense.


https://hockeyviz.com/fix...i/1819/BUF/skinnje92/wrap

https://hockeyviz.com/fix...i/1819/BUF/skinnje92/wrap

https://hockeyviz.com/fix...i/1819/CGY/tkachma97/wrap

https://hockeyviz.com/fix...i/1819/CGY/tkachma97/wrap

Tkachuk is inferior offensively by a margin

Takes more penalties
Draws less penalties
Creates less chances
Less shots
Less goals
Less EV goals

For Skinner being such a one dimensional player he had 4 less primary assists.

Offensively it’s really no contest
- OneKaneOneCup

Skinner's one dimension produced 6 more goals in the best year of his career. Tk is better at every other aspect of hockey. Not like we could trade the two, but I would if I could.

Tkachuk is inferior offensively by a margin

Takes more penalties
Draws less penalties
Creates less chances
Less shots
Less goals
Less EV goals

For Skinner being such a one dimensional player he had 4 less primary assists.

Offensively it’s really no contest
- OneKaneOneCup

Except Tkachuk had 14 more points in 2 less games. He takes more penalties because he plays a physical game, had more assists (secondary or not those count for Skinner too)

There are also 85 more players with a better PPG then Skinner, many of whom had 30+ goal seasons and many who are solid in all 3 zones that will be making less then $8M a year next year.

A viable way to get either Tkachuk would be more fun. They both bring exactly what Eichel needs in a linemate.
- Lunaion

Yeah I think this team needs more two way players in general but certainly would be a good fit with Eichel

if you could trade skinner for a third that turns to a conditional second if he signs, do you do it instead of paying him 9 per?

Skinner's one dimension produced 6 more goals in the best year of his career. Tk is better at every other aspect of hockey. Not like we could trade the two, but I would if I could.
- Lunaion

Yeah I would too mainly because one is 21 years old.

Unfortunately Skinner spent the better part of 12 games on lines with Evan Rodrigues, Casey Mittelstadt and Kyle Okposo otherwise I feel these point discrepancies would be a lot closer

Yeah I think this team needs more two way players in general but certainly would be a good fit with Eichel
- Sabresfan-365

skinner is a top 10 LW in the NHL

nobody should doubt that

if we didnt have scandella, bogo, okposo
it's a non story

Skinner's one dimension produced 6 more goals in the best year of his career. Tk is better at every other aspect of hockey. Not like we could trade the two, but I would if I could.
- Lunaion

Also, how do we know this isn’t MT career year? Is his 16.3% shooting sustainable but Skinner’s 14% isn’t?

The one thing people need to remember is that Jeff skinner actually wants to play here.


- Da_Cashman

yup, for 10% above market value

skinner is a top 10 LW in the NHL

nobody should doubt that

if we didnt have scandella, bogo, okposo
it's a non story
- homiedclown

Neither is relevant to the fact that the sabres do need more two way talent. If they had it, Mittelstadts defensively brain damaged second line wouldn't have gotten record high o-zone usage and offset by the 3rd and 4th line playing all the defensive minutes.

Also, how do we know this isn’t MT career year? Is his 16.3% shooting sustainable but Skinner’s 14% isn’t?
- OneKaneOneCup

tom wilson had 16.9% this season

(hides)

Also, how do we know this isn’t MT career year? Is his 16.3% shooting sustainable but Skinner’s 14% isn’t?
- OneKaneOneCup

his career is just over 13%. Probably depends on his centre.