With Eichel, Dahlin and Skinner all playing great, this team had one of the worst seasons in history after a fluky 10 game streak.

Discuss.
- ImThatGuy

I'd be willing to discuss if ROR wasn't the primary focus of the argument.

Well yes. The Sabres have up a crap ton to get him and then shipped him out for a first round pick.

It set this team back. It’s not a good look.
Especially if Skinner walks.
- ImThatGuy

Agreed. But what's the point of going on about it? It's done and over with, and we (Botts) needs to be looking forward, not back.

Agreed. But what's the point of going on about it? It's done and over with, and we (Botts) needs to be looking forward, not back.
- TheSabresTaco

A-(frank)ing-men.

I'd be willing to discuss if ROR wasn't the primary focus of the argument.
- TheSabresTaco

ROR has no bearing on my above statement.

The Sabres were the worst team in the league after The fluke streak.

There is a lot of work to be done to this team, a lot.

Young guys progressing will not even be remotely close enough.

Can Botts do it?

Ryan O’Reilly basically walked and we went from 62-78 points.

We would’ve been better if goaltending didn’t fall off a cliff.

It will be ok.

Botterill has to make a few savy moves
- OneKaneOneCup

My favorite part is that people don't even give credit that Botterill traded CLIFF PU, a 2nd, and a 3rd for Skinner who potted 40 goals. The same guy who had BLOCKED trades to 3 playoff teams but waived to come to Buffalo. There is also still a good likelihood that we resign this player.

Sure there is a chance that we don't resign him but man that is a GOOD risk trade to make that gives us a chance to get a player of the caliber. It is risk trades like this that I am happy to see Buffalo taking instead of just doing nothing like people think.

Did I need to mention that we also traded for Montour...? People have harped on us for not trading some picks/players for current talent instead of waiting 4 years on every one to develop. People have even coveted Montour for YEARS. That's a undoubted top 4 and highly likely top pairing guy he added to the back end. That makes 3 unquestioned guys who are top 4 across the league. McCabe, Pilut, and Nelson are all capable of being the last top 4 guy as well. Fitz, Bryson, Borgen are bottom 4 capable as well.

Our goaltending went to complete CRAP and our secondary scoring was either inexperienced or not good enough in a defensive minded coaches system. I'm shocked.

STOP F'N COMPLAINING ABOUT EV-ER-Y SIN-GLE THING (to everyone not who I am responding to directly)

ROR has no bearing on my above statement.

The Sabres were the worst team in the league after The fluke streak.

There is a lot of work to be done to this team, a lot.

Young guys progressing will not even be remotely close enough.

Can Botts do it?
- ImThatGuy

Even a signing or two isn't going to pull them out of the gutter. I don't think people realize that we're staring at yet another tank season

ROR has no bearing on my above statement.

The Sabres were the worst team in the league after The fluke streak.

There is a lot of work to be done to this team, a lot.

Young guys progressing will not even be remotely close enough.

Can Botts do it?
- ImThatGuy

He is at least trying... that we know.

- He added a guy who waived his NTC then scored 40 goals for us for spare f'n parts

- He added an undoubted top 4 and likely top pairing D-man for an extra log jam defensive guy and a late 1st.

- He added a former 20 goal scorer and who had a better year in 2019 than in 2018 on Pitt who has FAR better depth for a 4th round pick.


Botts is not going to sit on his hands. I promise you that. He's not.

My favorite part is that people don't even give credit that Botterill traded CLIFF PU, a 2nd, and a 3rd for Skinner who potted 40 goals. The same guy who had BLOCKED trades to 3 playoff teams but waived to come to Buffalo. There is also still a good likelihood that we resign this player.

Sure there is a chance that we don't resign him but man that is a GOOD risk trade to make that gives us a chance to get a player of the caliber. It is risk trades like this that I am happy to see Buffalo taking instead of just doing nothing like people think.

Did I need to mention that we also traded for Montour...? People have harped on us for not trading some picks/players for current talent instead of waiting 4 years on every one to develop. People have even coveted Montour for YEARS. That's a undoubted top 4 and highly likely top pairing guy he added to the back end. That makes 3 unquestioned guys who are top 4 across the league. McCabe, Pilut, and Nelson are all capable of being the last top 4 guy as well. Fitz, Bryson, Borgen are bottom 4 capable as well.

Our goaltending went to complete CRAP and our secondary scoring was either inexperienced or not good enough in a defensive minded coaches system. I'm shocked.

STOP F'N COMPLAINING ABOUT EV-ER-Y SIN-GLE THING (to everyone not who I am responding to directly)
- JVince11

With all you said.

The team had one of the worst statistical seasons in history outside of 10 games.

Botts composed teams have performed worse/ on par with Murray tank teams.

Robin Lehner leaves and becomes a vezina candidate, ROR leaves and becomes trophy finalist playing top line center for a WCF team.

A guy would rather quit and give up on $12MM instead of playing for this team.

Regardless of blind faith or optimism or whatever you want to call it, the Sabres don’t look good right now.

Are there more underlying issues that we do not see?

ROR has no bearing on my above statement.

The Sabres were the worst team in the league after The fluke streak.

There is a lot of work to be done to this team, a lot.

Young guys progressing will not even be remotely close enough.

Can Botts do it?
- ImThatGuy

This is today's and tomorrow's discussion, worth discussing. Can he do it? Guess we'll find out. We know the major flaws with this team. They've been mentioned here countless times.
-2C, one that can either shift to 3C or top 6 wing when CM takes over
-Shuffle the defense
-Sign Skinner
-Use Risto as a trade chip for addition by subtraction
-Rebuild your bottom 6
-Find a top 6 winger to play with Eichel who's good for 50ish points, let Reinhart carry L2

A lot of this is called out in Vogl's Sabres To-Do List, and it's all pretty obvious to even a semi-serious fan.
https://theathletic.com/9...res-offseason-to-do-list/

Goalies aren't moving. Dahlin, Montour, Pilut, McCabe and probably Bogo are here to stay. Scandella's value tanked, Risto has purpose if used properly, Nelson is Nelson, Borgen is tweener today.

With all you said.

The team had one of the worst statistical seasons in history outside of 10 games.

Botts composed teams have performed worse/ on par with Murray tank teams.

Robin Lehner leaves and becomes a vezina candidate, ROR leaves and becomes trophy finalist playing top line center for a WCF team.

A guy would rather quit and give up on $12MM instead of playing for this team.

Regardless of blind faith or optimism or whatever you want to call it, the Sabres don’t look good right now.

Are there more underlying issues that we do not see?
- ImThatGuy

LOL... I love the short sighted comments like this. Like... did anything else happen in Lehner's life? Wasn't there some event that had a HUGE bearing on the man's life? Hmmmm...

You mean to tell me that ROR not playing in Ted Nolan or Bylsma's offense and getting to center a line with Tarasenko on it.... IMPROVED his offense? I'm perplexed.

oh.. and Berglund quit because he went from being a 1/2C in STL to being a 4C here. He just wanted more ice time.

LOL... I love the short sighted comments like this. Like... did anything else happen in Lehner's life? Wasn't there some event that had a HUGE bearing on the man's life? Hmmmm...

You mean to tell me that ROR not playing in Ted Nolan or Bylsma's offense and getting to center a line with Tarasenko on it.... IMPROVED his offense? I'm perplexed.

oh.. and Berglund quit because he went from being a 1/2C in STL to being a 4C here. He just wanted more ice time.
- JVince11

We Are just going to ignore him shooting off about Buffalo? I assume they just didn’t know it was happening, right?

We Are just going to ignore him shooting off about Buffalo? I assume they just didn’t know it was happening, right?
- ImThatGuy

Please update me on if Lehner had any other life events that could have helped him?

Also.... i'm chewing my nails raw wondering if ROR having Tarasenko on his wing helped him? I can't decide. He's pretty similar to Okposo or Pommer right?

LOL... I love the short sighted comments like this. Like... did anything else happen in Lehner's life? Wasn't there some event that had a HUGE bearing on the man's life? Hmmmm...

You mean to tell me that ROR not playing in Ted Nolan or Bylsma's offense and getting to center a line with Tarasenko on it.... IMPROVED his offense? I'm perplexed.

oh.. and Berglund quit because he went from being a 1/2C in STL to being a 4C here. He just wanted more ice time.
- JVince11

He's battling depression.

Please update me on if Lehner had any other life events that could have helped him?

Also.... i'm chewing my nails raw wondering if ROR having Tarasenko on his wing helped him? I can't decide. He's pretty similar to Okposo or Pommer right?
- JVince11

So you are saying the Sabres don’t have enough talent, which is literally what I have been saying this entire time.

The team has a long way to go, a LONG WAY to get to the playoffs, let alone be a cup contender.

I’m not opposed to trading both firsts this year for immediate returns.

This team is so desperate for talent everywhere. It can’t wait another 2-3 years, it’s fans can’t.

Even a signing or two isn't going to pull them out of the gutter. I don't think people realize that we're staring at yet another tank season
- jcragcrumple

Yeap, we are Edmonton east. 🤦‍♂️

He's battling depression.
- TheSabresTaco

He also never wanted to leave St Louis. That loop hole NTC Armstrong pulled was dirty.

So you are saying the Sabres don’t have enough talent, which is literally what I have been saying this entire time.

The team has a long way to go, a LONG WAY to get to the playoffs, let alone be a cup contender.

I’m not opposed to trading both firsts this year for immediate returns.

This team is so desperate for talent everywhere. It can’t wait another 2-3 years, it’s fans can’t.
- ImThatGuy

PIVOT....... PIVVVVOOTT!!!!!!!

You said that players left and immediately became amazing. Don't pivot your conversation now.

Lehner went to 6 months of alcohol and depression rehab. He left Buffalo in the end of the season. He wanted to go some where else for his own mental health. Great for Lehner to play exceptional this year. You want to hold that AGAINST Buffalo that they put a player's health before the organization then that's on you.

ROR did play on some terrible teams here yes so him going to a playoff built team with one of the best scoring wingers in the ENTIRE NHL who scored 182 goals in the last 5 years is going to probably help him, eh? That could be Lindholm or Barkov and their stats would go through the roof too. That's just how f'n good Tarasenko is.

He also never wanted to leave St Louis. That loop hole NTC Armstrong pulled was dirty.
- ImThatGuy

but but but but I thought it was SOLELY because how bad Buffalo is that made him leave the NHL?

PIVOT....... PIVVVVOOTT!!!!!!!

You said that players left and immediately became amazing. Don't pivot your conversation now.

Lehner went to 6 months of alcohol and depression rehab. He left Buffalo in the end of the season. He wanted to go some where else for his own mental health. Great for Lehner to play exceptional this year. You want to hold that AGAINST Buffalo that they put a player's health before the organization then that's on you.

ROR did play on some terrible teams here yes so him going to a playoff built team with one of the best scoring wingers in the ENTIRE NHL who scored 182 goals in the last 5 years is going to probably help him, eh? That could be Lindholm or Barkov and their stats would go through the roof too. That's just how f'n good Tarasenko is.
- JVince11

Did Lehner and ROR not improve after they left, I am confused?

Yeap, we are Edmonton east. 🤦‍♂️
- ImThatGuy

I don't think you'd be found mentally competent to stand trial honestly.



No team in NHL history has signed that many HORRIBLE contracts and completely f'd up the careers/missed draft picks of so many top 5 talents.

Not to mention giving away their one stud top pick for a second pairing Dman.

but but but but I thought it was SOLELY because how bad Buffalo is that made him leave the NHL?
- JVince11

It might have had something to do with it.
The guy was in such a bad place he would rather quit give up on millions than play for an NHL team.

Did Lehner and ROR not improve after they left, I am confused?
- ImThatGuy

They improved but not for the reasons you are trying to connect the dots to.


You are pulling a Trump style level of story telling. Only telling the end game but not the facts that got the story there.

This is today's and tomorrow's discussion, worth discussing. Can he do it? Guess we'll find out. We know the major flaws with this team. They've been mentioned here countless times.
-2C, one that can either shift to 3C or top 6 wing when CM takes over
-Shuffle the defense
-Sign Skinner
-Use Risto as a trade chip for addition by subtraction
-Rebuild your bottom 6
-Find a top 6 winger to play with Eichel who's good for 50ish points, let Reinhart carry L2

A lot of this is called out in Vogl's Sabres To-Do List, and it's all pretty obvious to even a semi-serious fan.
https://theathletic.com/9...res-offseason-to-do-list/

Goalies aren't moving. Dahlin, Montour, Pilut, McCabe and probably Bogo are here to stay. Scandella's value tanked, Risto has purpose if used properly, Nelson is Nelson, Borgen is tweener today.
- TheSabresTaco

The two bolded items will, imho, have bearing on whether Skinner re-signs. I understand there are many factors at play in that decision, but showing him that we're serious about icing a competitive team has to be a fairly large factor. Considering he goes to market shortly after the draft, the draft will be the last chance to demonstrate that commitment.

Whatever Risto's value is, it's not going to be able to solve the problems of this roster on its own. Neither will signing FAs. We're gonna pick at 7, and that isn't going to help us this year, nor will it move the needle toward re-signing skinner.

The way I see it, if we keep the pick at 7 (which all signs point toward us doing), I assume Skinner will be gone.

Let's assume I'm wrong about that though. Even if Skinner signs and maybe a FA like Hayes, realistically, without moving the 7th pick for another impact forward, I don't see a path to more than 80 points. There's still the matter of the finding Dahlin's partner.

I see us keeping the pick, and i'm 50/50 on whether Skinner stays, but realistically imho, this team is gonna be 80 points. 85 with good coaching. We're an Eichel injury away from 70 points

I don't think you'd be found mentally competent to stand trial honestly
- JVince11

Because I’m not all sunshine and rainbows about this team?

Because it has been 9 years now? And We are looking at another rebuilding, possibly basement dwelling season?

Because I’m not all sunshine and rainbows about this team?

Because it has been 9 years now? And We are looking at another rebuilding, possibly basement dwelling season?
- ImThatGuy

You should really get pissed and be depressed about stuff you have literally zero control over. That's a good motto for life.


It's not sunshine and rainbows... it's just the difference of being a pessimist and well... not being an a*hole about it... well... EVERY day.