Yeah, I agree, Botterill will not be trading 7. I think he should, but that's not my choice. He will have to fix the roster some other way if he is unwilling to trade that pick. As for FA, i think his top spend on a FA is $2.25m, so we don't know much about whether he's willing to spend. So far, he's gone bargain fishing, not big game hunting
- jcragcrumple

He’s going big game hunting in the trade market.

From 92-04 (13 seasons), he had 7 seasons 139 or better. One season of those was 170, 5 seasons of 150-153, 4 seasons of 122-125, 1 season of 64(his last), and 1 season of 8 (blown knee).

https://www.pro-football-...om/players/R/RiceJe00.htm
- dadeadhead

Backside of his career for most of those year (You did mention this, but I'd venture to say AB, my comparable, will have similar dip in targets). I wish they had target numbers for his early career, would get the full picture.

Sorry, but you do not know that.

He has not gotten a lot of reward from the bargains he's signed. His butt is on the hot seat. He will do whatever he can to make this team competitive next year.
- RhinoFan

Sorry, but you do not know that.

No one here knows anything. Even if you have connections, no one knows how it'll play out. Is there enough pressure on JB that he'll abandon his core philosophy and everything he's ever done and said? I don't see it.

Backside of his career for most of those year (You did mention this, but I'd venture to say AB, my comparable, will have similar dip in targets). I wish they had target numbers for his early career, would get the full picture.
- SDSabre

I think my point was that 25% bump in production was quite generous to some of the guys that really started revolutionizing the pass happy offenses we know today.

He’s going big game hunting in the trade market.
- dadeadhead

1 or 2 big trades at the draft could go a long way toward enticing Skinner to stay imo. Show him a path to start winning now.

Sorry, but you do not know that.

No one here knows anything. Even if you have connections, no one knows how it'll play out. Is there enough pressure on JB that he'll abandon his core philosophy and everything he's ever done and said? I don't see it.
- Lunaion

The average shelf life of a Pegula GM is 2 years. He's very much on borrowed time, and I think he probably knows that, whether it's been articulated to him or not

Backside of his career for most of those year (You did mention this, but I'd venture to say AB, my comparable, will have similar dip in targets). I wish they had target numbers for his early career, would get the full picture.
- SDSabre

In the 7 seasons without that data he had 526 career receptions.

A tad less than a 3rd of his career receptions.

I think it’s safe to say that the numbers we have are the comparable to AB’s.

If it’s 9-9.5 per for Skinner(8yrs) or Duchene(6-7yrs), I’d lean towards Duchene.

Centers are easier to move no matter of contract than a winger IMO. It also allows the team to roll 4 lines as opposed to one line and 3 Island of Misfit toys lines.
- dadeadhead

But Skinner’s high end is 40+ goals
Sitting behind Jack,
i doubt that Duchene gets 30goals

sign the swede and have him bring Joakim Nygard with him to Buffalo
- homiedclown

You and your knowledge of obscure Scandinavian hockey people, Pierre.

😂😂😂

In the 7 seasons without that data he had 526 career receptions.

A tad less than a 3rd of his career receptions.

I think it’s safe to say that the numbers we have are the comparable to AB’s.
- dadeadhead

I just don't know that a 25% increase is a guarantee. Factors not entering into the equation: His prime years being with two HOFers at QB, probably wouldn't happen today. His target volume wouldn't increase by 25%(Even if you want to increase to AB's level of targets, that's roughly 12-15% any given year). I just don't see it. I'll concede that 150 targets per isn't exactly accurate.

The average shelf life of a Pegula GM is 2 years. He's very much on borrowed time, and I think he probably knows that, whether it's been articulated to him or not
- jcragcrumple

I don't think that's true. I think from the day he was interviewed he told them that this wasn't a quick fix and the entire system needed to be rebuilt. I don't think he's going to tell them it's time to flip on the GMTM switch and throw caution to the wind.

He needs to improve, but he's not going to pretend that they are ready to contend.

Devil's Advocate: Isn't Skinner a career 55 pt player?
- RhinoFan

Even this year he only got 62 if I’m not mistaken and that’s with a career high shooting percentage and playing with Jack. I like Skinner, just hope we don’t break the bank for the guy.

Devil's Advocate: Isn't Skinner a career 55 pt player?
- RhinoFan

But Skinner’s numbers are UP playing on the same line as Jack

Duchene wouldn’t be
he’d be 2C here, not putting up the 1C numbers he had in Ottawa this year

Duchene avg 77.25 gp per season @ 58.13 points

Skinner avg 76.99 gp per season @ 51.48

One is a center one is not.

Centers are easier to move no matter contract compared to wingers.
- dadeadhead

See above post
Skinner’s #s are up here
Duchene’s wouldnt be

And if I’m signing a guy for 9mil per,
I’m certainly not thinking about having to move him at some point
If i have to do that, he shouldn’t be signed

But Skinner’s high end is 40+ goals
Sitting behind Jack,
i doubt that Duchene gets 30goals
- jdfitz77

Yet Skinner’s career avg nets out to 28.42 compared to Duchene’s 24.20.

Duchene also helps set up more goals than Skinner the better money is spent on the Center all things (cap numbers) being considered.


In the 9 years they’ve been in the league together Duchene has out produced him by 50 points (492-442)

Even this year he only got 62 if I’m not mistaken and that’s with a career high shooting percentage and playing with Jack. I like Skinner, just hope we don’t break the bank for the guy.
- Pegullaville

If this was the case, Botterill should get poop canned for not moving him at the deadline for an insane price.

I don't think that's true. I think from the day he was interviewed he told them that this wasn't a quick fix and the entire system needed to be rebuilt. I don't think he's going to tell them it's time to flip on the GMTM switch and throw caution to the wind.

He needs to improve, but he's not going to pretend that they are ready to contend.
- Lunaion

We can debate the length of a quick fix, but year 3 feels very much like we've exited the definition of quick. That's 3 summers to address the problems, and naturally let some bad contracts die.

If they're on an 80-point pace at thanksgiving, it's going to be savage at KBC, and JB will be joining Murray and Whaley at the bar for a beer. Yes, i think he could miss the playoffs and keep his job, but only if they're knocked out with ~3 games remaining. If he's ready to go down with the ship to save his principles, or if he can make this a 90 point team while sticking to his principles, then he's all set. But if he has another dismal year, he absolutely will be fired, and deservedly so imo.

See above post
Skinner’s #s are up here
Duchene’s wouldnt be

And if I’m signing a guy for 9mil per,
I’m certainly not thinking about having to move him at some point
If i have to do that, he shouldn’t be signed
- jdfitz77

Then don’t sign Skinner either.

I’ll take 6 yrs of Duchene over 8 of Skinner.

You’re going to want both off the books in 4-5 yrs.

Buffalo media and radio , Buffalo news outlets have no inside sources I swear every time they break news comes from TSN or someone other

So yeah I’ll trust the Toronto guy
- gerbe75pts

it was a joke

I don't trust either

But Skinner’s high end is 40+ goals
Sitting behind Jack,
i doubt that Duchene gets 30goals
- jdfitz77

Duchene could hit 30 playing with Reinhart on line 2. Skinner and Eichel on line one, Reinhart and Duchene on line 2. Sprinkle in Olofsson, Smith, Nylander, Thompson where you see fit. It all comes down to how much Duchene would want at the end of the day.

You and your knowledge of obscure Scandinavian hockey people, Pierre.

😂😂😂
- Powerslave

I think he is 26
can skate like max
puts in 20 goals a year over there

and played with asplund, left wing

I just don't know that a 25% increase is a guarantee. Factors not entering into the equation: His prime years being with two HOFers at QB, probably wouldn't happen today. His target volume wouldn't increase by 25%(Even if you want to increase to AB's level of targets, that's roughly 12-15% any given year). I just don't see it. I'll concede that 150 targets per isn't exactly accurate.
- SDSabre

The problem is Rice’s prime years are after Montana gets hurt and gets traded.

His catch numbers jump in a big way 446 catches to 604 catches or 35.43%

(1st 6 years with mostly Montana throwing the ball compared the next 6 post Montana)

Edit: side note the next 6 yrs including the injury year is 406 catches.

We can debate the length of a quick fix, but year 3 feels very much like we've exited the definition of quick. That's 3 summers to address the problems, and naturally let some bad contracts die.

If they're on an 80-point pace at thanksgiving, it's going to be savage at KBC, and JB will be joining Murray and Whaley at the bar for a beer. Yes, i think he could miss the playoffs and keep his job, but only if they're knocked out with ~3 games remaining. If he's ready to go down with the ship to save his principles, or if he can make this a 90 point team while sticking to his principles, then he's all set. But if he has another dismal year, he absolutely will be fired, and deservedly so imo.
- jcragcrumple

Not far off from you there. He needs to be better than fake .500, with noticeable internal improvement.

It's his roster now, and we'll start to see who is really in his core (in addition to Eichel and Dahlin).

Then don’t sign Skinner either.

I’ll take 6 yrs of Duchene over 8 of Skinner.

You’re going to want both off the books in 4-5 yrs.
- dadeadhead

Duchene isn’t signing for less than 7yrs
And he won’t be in the #1 Center role here
His numbers will revert to the 55ish point range most likely

Whereas Skinner has the top winger role with a great center,
and this is more likely to keep his numbers up

We can debate the length of a quick fix, but year 3 feels very much like we've exited the definition of quick. That's 3 summers to address the problems, and naturally let some bad contracts die.

If they're on an 80-point pace at thanksgiving, it's going to be savage at KBC, and JB will be joining Murray and Whaley at the bar for a beer. Yes, i think he could miss the playoffs and keep his job, but only if they're knocked out with ~3 games remaining. If he's ready to go down with the ship to save his principles, or if he can make this a 90 point team while sticking to his principles, then he's all set. But if he has another dismal year, he absolutely will be fired, and deservedly so imo.
- jcragcrumple

Then the next GM will come in and reap the benefits of Botts’ patience. The last thing we need is Botts to pull a GMTM to try and save his job and blow everything up again and make moves to try and win this year at the expense of our future.