I think the very idea that the Flyers have depth on defense to trade with is a colossal blunder of an idea.
- MJL

Once we get Tyler Myers on board it won’t be an issue

RNH had a very nice year last season. 28 G. 69 points. Only 30 centers in the whole league scored more. He out scored centers like Kopitar, Johansson and Barzal. I don’t think that makes him a “sub average 2C”. He would fit right behind Coots with his 76 points and would definitely improve the team.
- Djapana

Maybe sub-average was was kind of harsh, but I'm just not sure he moves the needle much. I think you can slightly less production out of Patrick in the same role. Maybe RNH would be more polished defensively, but I don't think the margin between the two players is worth Ghost and whatever tradeoffs come w/ the higher cap hit.

Compared to C they absolutely have depth. Which is what I said.
- hereticpride

That's wrong and really a silly way of looking at it. If you want to compare positions and say one is deeper than the other that's fine. Saying they have depth to trade with at defense is just plain wrong. The Flyers may trade a defenseman but it won't be due to having excess at the position.

Once we get Tyler Myers on board it won’t be an issue
- Just5

Along with Nazem Kadri. Stanley Cup here we come. Amirite?

Maybe sub-average was was kind of harsh, but I'm just not sure he moves the needle much. I think you can slightly less production out of Patrick in the same role. Maybe RNH would be more polished defensively, but I don't think the margin between the two players is worth Ghost and whatever tradeoffs come w/ the higher cap hit.
- Tomahawk

You must think Patrick (31 points) is ready for his “break out “ year to come close to RNH production. I hope you are right.

you wouldn't be surprised? really? thats interesting, i think it's a foregone conclusion you have TK in the top 9, i understand the Ghost rumors after his down year, but 100% disagree with moving him. Under AV, i want to see Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers for a long time. I think Provy is as solid as they come and can play in any system, but I especially think the aforementioned 3 would benefit greatly from AV's system
- sjk540

For the record, I would go with the seven D they have now minus Macdonald next year. I would add two forwards and a solid goalie before I got another D. All easier said than done.

You must think Patrick (31 points) is ready for his “break out “ year to come close to RNH production. I hope you are right.
- Djapana

40-45 pts from Patrick isn't too unrealistic, I think. And that's coming from a NP skeptic.

RNH on the Flyers isn't scoring 69 pts either. 26 of his pts came on the PP. Unless he's unseating somebody on PP1, he'd be hard pressed to score more than 55-60 here.

That 10-15 margin worth Ghost? Not IMO.

why are you giving up on Ghost so quickly after a down year? The guy is one season removed from having 65 points in 78 games, at age 24 no less! One down season and we're trading him? It's not that I don't want RNH or don't think the trade is fair or not, but guys like Ghost don't grow on trees. The guy is an absolute offensive threat from the blue line, can QB any PP unit you want, skates well, makes crisp passes, and is on a cap friendly deal for years. With a new coach that predicates his system on breakouts, and speed through the neutral zone, I am anxious to see what Ghost can bring after this year. Ghost, Konecny, and Sanheim head my list of players I am anxious to see in this system, and also Patrick, but just in a general sense
- sjk540

Maybe it is not giving up on Ghost, but using an asset to get better? Outside of the PP points and somewhat dynamic showings in OT during 3 on 3, Ghost really does not bring much. RNH would help balance out all four lines, creating a better offensive and defensive posture for the team. If you are expecting Ghost to bounce back then you are also counting on Provorov bouncing back, Sanheim and Meyers progressing, and overall growth teamwide.

Sacrifice is not easy, nor it should be. Sacrifices are made for the betterment of the organization, not for your enjoyment.

If you read what i wrote I said he was one season removed from his 65 point campaign, at which point he was 24.

which player would you rather have:

2017-18 - Age 24
Player A: 78 games, 13 goals, 52 assists, 65 points, +10
Career Corsi of 52.0
Cap Hit - 4.5 mil

2017-18 Age 24
Player B: 82 games, 24 goals, 24 assists, 48 points, +10
Career Corsi of 48.6
Cap Hit - 6 million

You already know who is who, but Ghost is a defensemen, who are harder to come by and are more valuable. Again, I wouldn't mind RNH, but not for Ghost, or for any other players on his level for that matter.
- sjk540

If you are comparing ghost to a forward, you are comparing apples to cardboard boxes. there is no correlation.

Comparisons only work when comparing like things

40-45 pts from Patrick isn't too unrealistic, I think. And that's coming from a NP skeptic.

RNH on the Flyers isn't scoring 69 pts either. 26 of his pts came on the PP. Unless he's unseating somebody on PP1, he'd be hard pressed to score more than 55-60 here.

That 10-15 margin worth Ghost? Not IMO.
- Tomahawk

I guess it depends on how you shape it. It’s not like RNH is replacing NP. He is bumping out your worst center.

At least that is how I see it. I think it gives the Flyers 3 solid lines (if they add a top 9 wing also) to roll with. I could see time on the ice shifting depending on match ups.

Well, just a thought.

You must think Patrick (31 points) is ready for his “break out “ year to come close to RNH production. I hope you are right.
- Djapana

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is such a weird name to throw around to really want to pursue. There also seems to be a lot of unwarranted heat on Patrick.

Sean Couturier’s defensive game has always been above average to great. However, it took a really, really long time for him to develop his offensive game. We were patient with Couturier, we should give Patrick the same patience. Again, I’m loving Nolan Patrick’s two way game. The Flyers were the best faceoff team in the league and by taking a regular shift, Patrick was apart of that. Patrick just needs to become the center piece for his line to generate offense and get better as using that large frame.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is such a weird name to throw around to really want to pursue. There also seems to be a lot of unwarranted heat on Patrick.

Sean Couturier’s defensive game has always been above average to great. However, it took a really, really long time for him to develop his offensive game. We were patient with Couturier, we should give Patrick the same patience. Again, I’m loving Nolan Patrick’s two way game. The Flyers were the best faceoff team in the league and by taking a regular shift, Patrick was apart of that. Patrick just needs to become the center piece for his line to generate offense and get better as using that large frame.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree that Patrick’s game is a solid 200 feet. He was nothing like the defensive force the Coots was at an early age but I give the kid credit. He is a solid player.

I’m happy to be patient with him. Doesn’t mean we should wait for that year to come when he does/ if explodes. Think we can continue to hope that Patrick’s game continues to develop and add some needed fire power to build more scoring depth.

I guess it depends on how you shape it. It’s not like RNH is replacing NP. He is bumping out your worst center.

At least that is how I see it. I think it gives the Flyers 3 solid lines (if they add a top 9 wing also) to roll with. I could see time on the ice shifting depending on match ups.

Well, just a thought.
- peesinwind

Can't disregard the cost. What good is it to create a hole in order to fill a hole?

I agree that Patrick’s game is a solid 200 feet. He was nothing like the defensive force the Coots was at an early age but I give the kid credit. He is a solid player.

I’m happy to be patient with him. Doesn’t mean we should wait for that year to come when he does/ if explodes. Think we can continue to hope that Patrick’s game continues to develop and add some needed fire power to build more scoring depth.
- peesinwind

I don’t have a problem with this mindset. I agree we need to add a piece. I’m not so sure it absolutely, positively has to be a splash for a center.

I’ll put it this way, thinking outside of the box. Some don’t want to wait for Patrick to develop or are disappointed that he hasn’t become a force in his first two seasons. So your response is to get another center. Why hasn’t anyone considered the idea of getting a star winger to play with Patrick? To compliment Patrick. To help Patrick elevate his offensive game?

I would argue that Giroux has given Couturier that support and the confidence to be the player he is today.

I don’t have a problem with this mindset. I agree we need to add a piece. I’m not so sure it absolutely, positively has to be a splash for a center.

I’ll put it this way, thinking outside of the box. Some don’t want to wait for Patrick to develop or are disappointed that he hasn’t become a force in his first two season. So your response is to get another center. Why hasn’t anyone considered the idea of getting a star winger to play with Patrick? To compliment Patrick. To help Patrick elevate his offensive game?

I would argue that Giroux has given Couturier that support and the confidence to be the player he is today.
- SuperSchennBros

Yep. I agree.

yea lets trade patrick before he becomes williams or sharp

Can't disregard the cost. What good is it to create a hole in order to fill a hole?
- MJL

Your right. I’m not talking about what we would trade to get him. Just saying he would make the Flyers better.

I will say we are budding at defense and it looks like the talent is developing there which will give the Flyers an area of depth to deal with. At least in my opinion.

I don’t have a problem with this mindset. I agree we need to add a piece. I’m not so sure it absolutely, positively has to be a splash for a center.

I’ll put it this way, thinking outside of the box. Some don’t want to wait for Patrick to develop or are disappointed that he hasn’t become a force in his first two seasons. So your response is to get another center. Why hasn’t anyone considered the idea of getting a star winger to play with Patrick? To compliment Patrick. To help Patrick elevate his offensive game?

I would argue that Giroux has given Couturier that support and the confidence to be the player he is today.
- SuperSchennBros

Agreed, I just think the Flyers are in a position to upgrade their top 6 for sure. With a little cap room, lots of picks, lots of prospects and a richer then normal FA market. Hextall left Fletcher with some tools to work with.

Your right. I’m not talking about what we would trade to get him. Just saying he would make the Flyers better.


- peesinwind

Can't have one without the other. If you weaken an area in order to strengthen another, that does not necessarily make the team better.

I will say we are budding at defense and it looks like the talent is developing there which will give the Flyers an area of depth to deal with. At least in my opinion.
- peesinwind

Even if all 4 of Provorov, Gostisbehere, Sanheim and Myers develop and play well, that does not give the Flyers an area of depth to deal with. At least in my opinion.

Along with Nazem Kadri. Stanley Cup here we come. Amirite?
- MJL

no patience is the way to go. All the hot shot prospects the flyers have only a matter of time before the are legit cup contedners.

40-45 pts from Patrick isn't too unrealistic, I think. And that's coming from a NP skeptic.

RNH on the Flyers isn't scoring 69 pts either. 26 of his pts came on the PP. Unless he's unseating somebody on PP1, he'd be hard pressed to score more than 55-60 here.

That 10-15 margin worth Ghost? Not IMO.
- Tomahawk

so your looking at it from a strictly points point of view it seems.

As several have said, your not giving up on ghost. You are making a hockey trade that you think will improve your club. Its that simple. Giving up on him would be moving him for picks imo.


Also I dont see anyone saying trade Patrick at this time. I see people wanting to improve the fwds and take a little pressure off of him.

If you are comparing ghost to a forward, you are comparing apples to cardboard boxes. there is no correlation.

Comparisons only work when comparing like things
- corduroy

Thats not true at all, but i wasn't comparing for forwards sake or defenseman sake anyway. What I was comparing was two hockey players, and which one would you rather have.

.....apples to cardboard boxes, really?

I guess it depends on how you shape it. It’s not like RNH is replacing NP. He is bumping out your worst center.

At least that is how I see it. I think it gives the Flyers 3 solid lines (if they add a top 9 wing also) to roll with. I could see time on the ice shifting depending on match ups.

Well, just a thought.
- peesinwind

You also don't want to see a repeat of what they did to Sean Couturier in terms of expecting him to produce with worse linemates, and less offensive ice, year after year.

Maybe it is not giving up on Ghost, but using an asset to get better? Outside of the PP points and somewhat dynamic showings in OT during 3 on 3, Ghost really does not bring much. RNH would help balance out all four lines, creating a better offensive and defensive posture for the team. If you are expecting Ghost to bounce back then you are also counting on Provorov bouncing back, Sanheim and Meyers progressing, and overall growth teamwide.

Sacrifice is not easy, nor it should be. Sacrifices are made for the betterment of the organization, not for your enjoyment.
- corduroy

I dont think RNH would make us better, at all, compared with Ghost on the team. What else do you want from Ghost, he's a PP qb, he scores, he has great offensive awareness and a great first pass out of the zone (most of the time), is a threat on the 3-on-3 OT, what else do you want? He was a bit of a defensive liability on the whole last year but the last 15-20 games or so he improved compared to the beginning of the year.

Defensemen who score 60 points in a season and have a cap hit of less than 6 million a year don't grow on trees. Players like RNH are all over the NHL, I would rather sign Brock Nelson and keep Ghost, then trade Ghost for RNH. I wouldn't mind RNH, but not for an asset that is important to the team now. Id trade maybe Rubstov and a 2nd for RNH, not sure if they'd even consider it but thats the level im willing to part with, not really anything more.

I get that about sacrifice, but if you don't need to sacrifice anything, why do it?