Especially because he'll probably be replaced with a rookie from the AHL.

Odds of improvement are slim to none.
- JohnFergusonJr

I've had this discussion before...which gardiner are we replacing.. playoff or regular season....sandin is more than capable of replacing playoff gardiner. And muzzin replaces regular season gardiner (that's essentially what he did last season). And turned zaitsev into a useful dman.

I'm saying you are saying Nylander needs to to play with better players to score. Just like Brown. You were praising Nylander and criticizing Brown for the exact same reasons. Contradictory.
- aminnes

No, not exactly.

In my original post, I said (referencing Team Sweden) that Nylander is not playing with guys like Marleau and Brown, he's playing with good players.

Then, I said Brown was good when he played with Matthews, but he is what he is, which is a bottom 6 winger.

I've been told 50 point centers are worth a 4th....we will trade you a 4th for daneault.
- mykokes

think bigger.. Drouin for a 4th..

I've had this discussion before...which gardiner are we replacing.. playoff or regular season....sandin is more than capable of replacing playoff gardiner. And muzzin replaces regular season gardiner (that's essentially what he did last season). And turned zaitsev into a useful dman.
- mykokes

That's the hope.. That Sandin can be better than the Gardiner that we had in the playoffs. We just need someone that won't panic like Jade did.

Looks like Yzerman already started plucking gems for the Red Wings.

Oliwer Kaski.

6'3", RHD, 23 years old and scored 19 goals and 51 points in 59 games in Finland.

Already looks better than Ozhiganov...

I've had this discussion before...which gardiner are we replacing.. playoff or regular season....sandin is more than capable of replacing playoff gardiner. And muzzin replaces regular season gardiner (that's essentially what he did last season). And turned zaitsev into a useful dman.
- mykokes

Yeah, you're dreaming.

Asking a 19 year old rookie to play 82 NHL games and still be effective during the playoffs is a big ask. And usually doesn't end well.

Looks like Yzerman already started plucking gems for the Red Wings.

Oliwer Kaski.

6'3", RHD, 23 years old and scored 19 goals and 51 points in 59 games in Finland.

Already looks better than Ozhiganov...
- JohnFergusonJr

Good for Detroit, they need offensive d-man that struggle defensively.

I don't think we are as (frank)ed with our rfas as some people think. Both kapanen and johnson tailed off quite a bit. 40 point players won't command that much....especially when the leafs have a 50 point player making 4.5m roughly and fans from other teams say we will be lucky to get a 4th for him.

Yeah, you're dreaming.

Asking a 19 year old rookie to play 82 NHL games and still be effective during the playoffs is a big ask. And usually doesn't end well.
- JohnFergusonJr

I wouldn't call it dreaming.. We need someone that doesn't panic every time an opposing player is within 5 feet, like Gardiner does

I don't think we are as (frank)ed with our rfas as some people think. Both kapanen and johnson tailed off quite a bit. 40 point players won't command that much....especially when the leafs have a 50 point player making 4.5m roughly and fans from other teams say we will be lucky to get a 4th for him.
- mykokes

If a team offer sheets Kapanen, that way we will get a 2nd rd pick for him. That's a huge overpayment, his value is only a 7th rounder/future considerations.

No, not exactly.

In my original post, I said (referencing Team Sweden) that Nylander is not playing with guys like Marleau and Brown, he's playing with good players.

Then, I said Brown was good when he played with Matthews, but he is what he is, which is a bottom 6 winger.
- PatC80

So it's settled then. Neither Nylander or Brown can score without playing with good players.

Yeah, you're dreaming.

Asking a 19 year old rookie to play 82 NHL games and still be effective during the playoffs is a big ask. And usually doesn't end well.
- JohnFergusonJr

It seems to work in places like Boston. And I'm pretty sure Reilly did just fine on a much pooptier leaf team at the same age. What, it's ok for 19 year old forwards to play in the nhl but not dmen?

Tavares for Kotkaniemi and a 1st
- TheMussel

you will get 6 used Zamboni tires and 12 habs toilet seats for Snakevares, that's it.

It seems to work in places like Boston. And I'm pretty sure Reilly did just fine on a much pooptier leaf team at the same age. What, it's ok for 19 year old forwards to play in the nhl but not dmen?
- mykokes

Heiskanen did ok, just ok as a 19 yr old this year

I wouldn't call it dreaming.. We need someone that doesn't panic every time an opposing player is within 5 feet, like Gardiner does
- PatC80

It's dreaming.

It happens every year and people still never learn.

Last year, it was Ozhiganov. The year before it was Borgman. These European players aren't used to playing 82 games. They hit a wall after 40-50 games. Even Sandin didn't play more than 50 games this year.

It takes a long time to build up the strength and conditioning just to deal with the rigors of a full NHL seasons....plus playoffs...

Disagree.. It had to be said.

I like that Kadri plays with a bit of an edge, he can't keep doing dumb poop though..
I think right now, Kadri has a lot of trade value and to be honest, when your top 2 C are making $11M+, you can't afford to pay your 3rd line C, $4.5M per
- PatC80

Fair points Pat especially the bolded but I disagree with a 3rd C at 4.5 per in 2019...it is the least of our problems. Deal with Z and Marleau first, some of the leftover contracts buy out stuff....might just be Kessel at this point....and we would be fine IMO.

Willie is probably our best trade chip for the coveted RHD. Kadri won't get us that.

But really, I would love to keep our whole team intact. Add a hard hitting RHD, gritty winger on the 4th line with Bracco and Marchment, call up Sandin and get McIll back as back up. I would be happy as (frank). That's the balance of a team that could go far while having depth in case of injury.

It's all about the doe ray me!!!

you will get 6 used Zamboni tires and 12 habs toilet seats for Snakevares, that's it.
- Symba007

Seems fair.. We are in a position of weakness.. We might have to add Matthews in, just because we are so weak right now.

It's dreaming.

It happens every year and people still never learn.

Last year, it was Ozhiganov. The year before it was Borgman. These European players aren't used to playing 82 games. They hit a wall after 40-50 games. Even Sandin didn't play more than 50 games this year.

It takes a long time to build up the strength and conditioning just to deal with the rigors of a full NHL seasons....plus playoffs...
- JohnFergusonJr

Again, Heiskanen did ok as a 19 yr old.. I think Sandin after a full AHL season should be ready, or close to ready for the NHL.

St. Louis is not trading Parayko now at all. And especially not for Nylander.
- aminnes

Wishful thinking I know but that's the type of player we need IMO.

It seems to work in places like Boston. And I'm pretty sure Reilly did just fine on a much pooptier leaf team at the same age. What, it's ok for 19 year old forwards to play in the nhl but not dmen?
- mykokes

Rielly was a way better prospect than Sandin. And Rielly still kinda of sucked his first couple seasons because he was still too young to deal with the NHL.

And yes, forwards and defenders are different. The demands on the defense is way higher and harder to hide in a lineup.

Again, Heiskanen did ok as a 19 yr old.. I think Sandin after a full AHL season should be ready, or close to ready for the NHL.
- PatC80

Not on the same level. Not even close. There's a reason why one went top 3 and the other was a very late 1st round pick.

Sandin played half an AHL season.

Today @ 1:00 PM ET
We should all know by now, the type of player William Nylander is. When the opponent is Crappy, or not very physical, you will see him on the ice.

When William Nylander is facing teams that are a playoff type of team, that bring a Physical/Gritty game...you will not see him on the ice.

This guy wont help you win a Cup. Ship him and his $6.9 Million Cap-Hit outta here.
- Sandro


Reminds me almost verbatim of the Phil Kessel comments... and ummm yeah who has a cup ring to his name now?


Phil Kessel showed up in that playoff series versus Boston in 2013. Kessel's issue was that his attitude in the locker room wasn't what the New Maple Leafs Brass wanted....esp around the younger players they were bringing in via the draft.

Did the fire sale start in TO?
- Symba007

It started with game used Leafs bedding

Fair points Pat especially the bolded but I disagree with a 3rd C at 4.5 per in 2019...it is the least of our problems. Deal with Z and Marleau first, some of the leftover contracts buy out stuff....might just be Kessel at this point....and we would be fine IMO.

Willie is probably our best trade chip for the coveted RHD. Kadri won't get us that.

But really, I would love to keep our whole team intact. Add a hard hitting RHD, gritty winger on the 4th line with Bracco and Marchment, call up Sandin and get McIll back as back up. I would be happy as (frank). That's the balance of a team that could go far while having depth in case of injury.

It's all about the doe ray me!!!
- Barb34

That's easier said then done though.. Marleau only goes if he agrees to it. Zaitsev still has 5 years left on his deal, and he still has a ways to go to meet expectations.

Again, Heiskanen did ok as a 19 yr old.. I think Sandin after a full AHL season should be ready, or close to ready for the NHL.
- PatC80

its not worth it

Let it just play out, the way Sandin is trending we should be surprised the Leafs drafted him where they did (and traded down)