Just admit that you can't follow what either of us are saying.


- Pres.cup

I do love a good statistics fight.

I do love a good statistics fight.
- Marwood

I wish either of us (pres and I) were smart enough to have that fight.

I've enjoyed this back and forth and understand and sympathize with your position.

When we are looking at the majority of deaths in care homes, end of life homes, the final place people will live before death takes them. We are going to be seeing more deaths then the general public.
We are also seeing more testing there, then in the general public. When there is a single case, everyone in the care facility gets tested. Unlike the general population, where you can go get tested if you'd like, or if you have symptoms.
This will inflate the numbers toasted, both positive and negative, within care homes.
It also makes it more likely that if someone dies in a care home they'll be listed as a covid death. This I understand and the fact that it's the driver for a larger portion of deaths is understandable.

I spent some time in health care as a paramedic, generally doctors didn't attend our fatalities. It was us, the police and then followed up by the coroner's office. What the health authorities are saying is that they've been directed to label any case involving a covid, positive test, patient as a covid death, despite any other factors. Period, full stop, don't think on it further. It's impossible to say whether that is a single person, or multiple people because the data is obfuscated at its collection point.
Do I think the majority of covid deaths are suicides or car accidents? No.

Do I think that seniors in care homes are being killed by covid? Yes.

Do I believe that the data is being presented in a manner that makes the general population more afraid then could be? Yes.

The doctors are not commenting on any specific case, the example of it being hard to tell in some cases is an obfuscating example without data.
Lung failure is relativity easy to tell when dealing with EOL treatment, O2 levels fall despite assisted ventilation and the heart beat is ineffective.

Yes some cases would be hard, but directing health districts to not report cause of death as anything but covid because of difficulty distinguishing cause, logically, doesn't make sense. They could simply put those in covid deaths and leave out the ODs and traumas etc.... the direction from above need not be given.

When we are looking at a death rate of 0.3 percent total (Iceland genome study) and a total death count under a thousand(in BC) then just a single misdiagnosed death increases that total by a whole point, which is huge. If 10 of the, not yet 1000, deaths are misdiagnosed, that increases the total by a whole percentage point, which is significant.

You're right, it's not the end all to be all, it's just another piece to the puzzle which doesn't match the picture we are supposed to be putting together.

Is it incompetence that we're tallying things the way we do, compared to say Japan or Iceland?

Is it the rural nature of our country?

I think our death rates would be a fraction of what they are if we as a society didn't stick seniors into end of life care facilities, drug then and forget about them.

I would love to be able to look at accurate mortality rates by age or other demographic and make an informed decision for my young family, however, the data is to obscured to find.

I don't trust the fact that these numbers aren't released but they're telling me that I have to get the vaccine, whether I've had covid or not, to be a part of society even if my demographic could have a mortality rate less then the regular flu. It's nonsensical.

If you can find those numbers I would really like to see them. Until then, I see fear based propaganda pushing a product that doesn't do anything for me in order to satisfy corporate masters bank account.

The whole thing stinks. They're even testing on children now, not because they get sick from covid, they don't, but to assure people that they're safe. It's ridiculous.
- Pres.cup

I don't buy into the conspiracy.

You can try to paint it as something else but what you're saying is that there is a conspiracy to defraud the public by pharmaceutical companies with the aid of politicians and medical officials. That's the point you're making.

Sorry. That's a bridge too far for me.

We both look at eachother in the same manner: utterly incapable or not wanting to face reality. That pretty much goes for the economic/political disagreements we've had.

Sadly, that's largely the state of politics these days. It's just not really possible to have a rational discussion when we can't agree on fundamentals.

Anyway, merry Christmas.

I do love a good statistics fight.
- Marwood

I wish either of us (pres and I) were smart enough to have that fight.
- RealityChecker

Probably true, still I'm enjoying it.... but I don't have a statistical background, probably losing that side, just need to keep the moral high ground....

Probably true, still I'm enjoying it.... but I don't have a statistical background, probably losing that side, just need to keep the moral high ground....
- Pres.cup

don't worry, your virtue has been signalled. we all see and acknowledge it!

I don't buy into the conspiracy.

You can try to paint it as something else but what you're saying is that there is a conspiracy to defraud the public by pharmaceutical companies with the aid of politicians and medical officials. That's the point you're making.

Sorry. That's a bridge too far for me.

We both look at eachother in the same manner: utterly incapable or not wanting to face reality. That pretty much goes for the economic/political disagreements we've had.

Sadly, that's largely the state of politics these days. It's just not really possible to have a rational discussion when we can't agree on fundamentals.

Anyway, merry Christmas.
- RealityChecker

I don't think there's an actually conspiracy. I think human nature is doing what human nature historically does.

An altruistic company would publish the vaccine for free or ask to be reimbursed costs plus.

The vaccine isn't proven effective past 7 weeks(Pfizers numbers, probably updating this monthly), yet they say everyone needs to get the vaccine(despite evidence pointing to covid not being threatening to certain demographics, namely the youth) even if you've had covid(which had been shown to provide similar levels of protection).
$20 a dose
×2 doses per vaccine
×38,000,000 people in Canada alone
=$1,520,000,000 per cycle.

They have hinted that you may need an annual or bi annual booster to maintain antibodies. Since they can't prove its effective part 7 weeks right now, let's go with a no annual booster, so 2 shots a year.
That's an additional 1.5B per year, for the foreseeable future.

I have never said it's a grand conspiracy, I have said that that's an awful lot of money to throw around. If you're telling me that there is zero corporate greed at play I'll tell you you're joking. Of course there is, they'd be offering the science up freely if there wasn't.

I want to see what happens over time once care home workers and inhabitants are vaccinated.
Does the death and hospitalization rates fall by a factor of ten? A hundred? We don't know and until we do it's foolhardy to inoculate everyone with a virus that still hasn't cleared phase 4 testing.

Good statistics, including actual cause of death, is vital to actually making the correct decision. That isn't happening, whether through gross incompetence, neglect, or willful conspiracy(smallest chance, but not zero), nobody knows.

The only way to know is if the authorities track good data and use it to shape policy.

don't worry, your virtue has been signalled. we all see and acknowledge it!
- RealityChecker

But aren't I condemning millions to die by advocating against mandatory vaccinations?
Nothing virtuous about that horror....

To think I've become a SJW...

But aren't I condemning millions to die by advocating against mandatory vaccinations?
Nothing virtuous about that horror....

To think I've become a SJW...
- Pres.cup

there isn't only one type of virtue that people like to signal. social justice is only one variety.

there's also the "independent free thinker," variety signalling. the "i'm a conservative so i don't wear a mask," variety. there's the button/ribbon wearing that signals that they support some or other "virtuous" cause. some people have license plates that "support the troops," as a signal of patriotism (or sometimes other things ).

people try to signal all kinds of stuff.

so... yeah... your virtue has been signalled.

there isn't only one type of virtue that people like to signal. social justice is only one variety.

there's also the "independent free thinker," variety signalling. the "i'm a conservative so i don't wear a mask," variety. there's the button/ribbon wearing that signals that they support some or other "virtuous" cause. some people have license plates that "support the troops," as a signal of patriotism (or sometimes other things ).

people try to signal all kinds of stuff.

so... yeah... your virtue has been signalled.
- RealityChecker

Ah, I see. Then yes, my virtue signaling as a critical thinker is acknowledged, thank you.

I would like to also acknowledge your virtue signaling for fighting disinformation, without you, people would be lost!

Ah, I see. Then yes, my virtue signaling as a critical thinker is acknowledged, thank you.

I would like to also acknowledge your virtue signaling for fighting disinformation, without you, people would be lost!


- Pres.cup

Exactly.

I just dislike when these labels get attached to one side when it's actually applicable to everyone (so the label has virtually no meaning but it's still used as an epithet.)

Exactly.

I just dislike when these labels get attached to one side when it's actually applicable to everyone (so the label has virtually no meaning but it's still used as an epithet.)
- RealityChecker

Thank you, I think I finally understand it.

Exactly.

I just dislike when these labels get attached to one side when it's actually applicable to everyone (so the label has virtually no meaning but it's still used as an epithet.)
- RealityChecker

So true, enjoyed calling Trumpists snowflakes during the election and watching them melt.

Merry Christmas, fellas!

Merry Christmas, fellas!
- Marwood

Merry Christmas to you and everyone else

Merry Christmas, fellas!
- Marwood

Thank you! Hope all you guys had a great Christmas and are enjoying a wonderful weekend.

Merry Christmas, fellas!
- Marwood

You too! Hope Santa was good to everyone.

Merry Christmas Gentleman. So after this bout with the virus, I've lost my sense of taste and smell. Weird.

Merry Christmas Gentleman. So after this bout with the virus, I've lost my sense of taste and smell. Weird.
- VanHockeyGuy

You never had any taste....

Glad you're feeling better

poopty to hear the new variant of covid has hit the island.
Why the heck are people traveling overseas?

poopty to hear the new variant of covid has hit the island.
Why the heck are people traveling overseas?
- Reubenkincade

Because people are still allowed to travel. I get email every week from Westjet with flight deals all over the world.

You never had any taste....

Glad you're feeling better
- Pres.cup

That made me chuckle.

Merry Christmas Gentleman. So after this bout with the virus, I've lost my sense of taste and smell. Weird.
- VanHockeyGuy

sorry to hear man. hopefully you regain it back soon.

Merry Christmas BTW

sorry to hear man. hopefully you regain it back soon.

Merry Christmas BTW
- Codes1087

Stop coddling him.

Stop coddling him.
- Marwood

normally i would tell him to power through it, but i love the taste of food and alcohol too much to even say it.