I think people think about the picks a little too much. Even if we pick midpack, there's probably 2 in terms of a statistical average that would be solid NHL regulars. If Dallas resigns Zucc, really we would only be down 3 1sts. I also think after he accepts that if Tampa wasn't going to match, they'd elect to work out a trade first than waiting 4 years. Even if they didn't, we could then probably trade Krieder and get another 1st back. At that point we'd only really be down 2 1sts.

Offer sheets are punitive, but if there was ever a time where a team could get away with one, the Rangers are in that spot now.
- 2sticks1puck

It's not just about the picks themselves though. Yes, statistically-speaking, it wouldn't be a huge deal but even if those picks are just "good not great" NHL players you're still missing out on the opportunity to be able to fill roster holes with NHL players on ELC contracts or cheap first RFA deals. The teams that trade away their first round pick every year typically have the worst prospects and end up in cap hell. That's fine if you're the Blackhawks or the Pens and have a fistful of Cups to go with it, but if you don't then you're talking about a complete and total teardown, like we're seeing in Edmonton, and a few years of irrelevancy.

Had the Rangers been "loyal" to all their aging fan-favorite players they'd be absolutely (frank)ed right now. Instead they have a stable of solid prospects that's going to get a huge boost from this year's draft and they have a ton of cap space with more coming on the horizon.

So while maybe none of those four firsts would be star players that anyone gets super excited over, they'd give you either a) the cap flexibility to remain a viable contender long-term and/or b) assets to trade for upgrades when they become available

It would really depend where the firsts fell. He did have 92 pts at 23 yrs old. I can’t believe he was a 3rd rd pick
- Slimtj100

Yeah Tampa's scouting department is #1 in the league by a country mile.

They find gems everywhere. Johnson, Gourde and Barre-Boulet were undrafted FA signings. Point and Cirelli in the 3rd round. Kucherov, Stephens, Katchouk, Volkov and Raddysh in the 2nd round. Mathieu Joseph in the 4th round. Palat in the god damn 7th round.

You could ice a competitive forward lineup without any of their first round picks.

It's not just about the picks themselves though. Yes, statistically-speaking, it wouldn't be a huge deal but even if those picks are just "good not great" NHL players you're still missing out on the opportunity to be able to fill roster holes with NHL players on ELC contracts or cheap first RFA deals. The teams that trade away their first round pick every year typically have the worst prospects and end up in cap hell. That's fine if you're the Blackhawks or the Pens and have a fistful of Cups to go with it, but if you don't then you're talking about a complete and total teardown, like we're seeing in Edmonton, and a few years of irrelevancy.

Had the Rangers been "loyal" to all their aging fan-favorite players they'd be absolutely (frank)ed right now. Instead they have a stable of solid prospects that's going to get a huge boost from this year's draft and they have a ton of cap space with more coming on the horizon.

So while maybe none of those four firsts would be star players that anyone gets super excited over, they'd give you either a) the cap flexibility to remain a viable contender long-term and/or b) assets to trade for upgrades when they become available
- eichiefs9

I get what you are saying there, though I think the Rangers have a built in advantage of being able to regularly lure college UFA to the team. Really, our downturn should have been like Detroit's. We got bailed out not only by getting guys like Buch in the 3rd round, but being able to get guys like Hayes and Vesey who have been those cheap cost controlled assets you talk about. That period was also when the prospect pool never really even was that great. Guys like Kreider, Miller, and Skeji were good picks, but there really wasn't else of note.

Constrast that now where the cabinets are pretty full of prospects. We don't really know how good those guys are until they physically play games, but we have a reasonable expectation that we should have several roster players in the system.

Also, signing an offer sheet now lines up pretty good with the timeline. Our main guys such as Chytil and Kravs should get pretty affordable second contracts. We will see what Buch and ADA sign for this offseason, and I don't think any of our young dmen will command the moon unless someone really breaks out. Even if Miller came over before 20-21 and was a monster, he wouldn't need to get paid until 4 years from now.

If you can't justify an offer sheet now, then you are right, there is never a time to do it.

This is such a no brainer trade for both teams, Kreider for pick 18 (Dallas). They’ll sign Zucc and then have Kreider also. They’re very close to being a Cup contender. Sure they won’t have first rders the next two years, but you gotta strike while you can. They were an OT goal away from probably reaching the finals this year


Roope Zucc and Kreider is a helluva second line. They are one scorer away imo

I get what you are saying there, though I think the Rangers have a built in advantage of being able to regularly lure college UFA to the team. Really, our downturn should have been like Detroit's. We got bailed out not only by getting guys like Buch in the 3rd round, but being able to get guys like Hayes and Vesey who have been those cheap cost controlled assets you talk about. That period was also when the prospect pool never really even was that great. Guys like Kreider, Miller, and Skeji were good picks, but there really wasn't else of note.

Constrast that now where the cabinets are pretty full of prospects. We don't really know how good those guys are until they physically play games, but we have a reasonable expectation that we should have several roster players in the system.

Also, signing an offer sheet now lines up pretty good with the timeline. Our main guys such as Chytil and Kravs should get pretty affordable second contracts. We will see what Buch and ADA sign for this offseason, and I don't think any of our young dmen will command the moon unless someone really breaks out. Even if Miller came over before 20-21 and was a monster, he wouldn't need to get paid until 4 years from now.

If you can't justify an offer sheet now, then you are right, there is never a time to do it.
- 2sticks1puck

This may be the year for an offer sheet, but I have major doubts it’ll be any of the major RFA’s.

One guy I would love to see the Islanders offer sheet (and I still maintain that offer sheets aren't real, but for the sake of conversation....) is Labanc from SJS.

They’re going to have a hell of a time getting all those guys signed, doubly-so if they think they can get Karlsson re-signed. I’d chuck out a $4.2M offer sheet over 4 years and see if he bites. Compensation would only be a 2nd round pick. He's only 23 and would still be in line for a hefty UFA deal when he turns 27.

Let's check in on the Sharks practice today:

No Hertl
No Karlsson
Maybe no Pavelski

and now.......



They're toast

Let's check in on the Sharks practice today:

No Hertl
No Karlsson
Maybe no Pavelski

and now.......



They're toast
- eichiefs9

And they probably shouldn’t be here anyway either. Poor Jumbo

This may be the year for an offer sheet, but I have major doubts it’ll be any of the major RFA’s.

One guy I would love to see the Islanders offer sheet (and I still maintain that offer sheets aren't real, but for the sake of conversation....) is Labanc from SJS.

They’re going to have a hell of a time getting all those guys signed, doubly-so if they think they can get Karlsson re-signed. I’d chuck out a $4.2M offer sheet over 4 years and see if he bites. Compensation would only be a 2nd round pick. He's only 23 and would still be in line for a hefty UFA deal when he turns 27.
- eichiefs9

I've watched him since you mentioned him like a month ago. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a solid player. I'm just not seeing anything that moves the needle in a big way. Barzal and to a lesser extent Beauviller will get paid, but I'm not sure you want Labanc making that much to set the market for your own roster players. His contract wouldn't be as funny as the infamous Jeff Finger Leafs contract, but I would never want to sign an obvious 2 million player to a 4 million contract and risk setting your own market.

I've watched him since you mentioned him like a month ago. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a solid player. I'm just not seeing anything that moves the needle in a big way. Barzal and to a lesser extent Beauviller will get paid, but I'm not sure you want Labanc making that much to set the market for your own roster players. His contract wouldn't be as funny as the infamous Jeff Finger Leafs contract, but I would never want to sign an obvious 2 million player to a 4 million contract and risk setting your own market.
- 2sticks1puck

I couldn't disagree more. He may not be a stud, but he's a solid 2nd line player...if not, eventually, better.

His PPG pace has significantly increased in each of his first three NHL seasons (.36, .52, .68) He had 17g and 56pts over 82gp while averaging 14min TOI per game, good for 15th overall on the Sharks during the regular season (8th among forwards). He's 23 years old and figures to have another year or two of improving before you really know what he is.

I think he's absolutely worth between $4M and $5M on a medium-term deal that seems to be becoming the new norm for talented young players that want to cash in on one big 'prime-year' UFA contract towards the end of their 20's.

Putting up just under 20g and 60pts getting third line minutes is pretty damn good if you ask me.

I couldn't disagree more. He may not be a stud, but he's a solid 2nd line player...if not, eventually, better.

His PPG pace has significantly increased in each of his first three NHL seasons (.36, .52, .68) He had 17g and 56pts over 82gp while averaging 14min TOI per game, good for 15th overall on the Sharks during the regular season (8th among forwards). He's 23 years old and figures to have another year or two of improving before you really know what he is.

I think he's absolutely worth between $4M and $5M on a medium-term deal that seems to be becoming the new norm for talented young players that want to cash in on one big 'prime-year' UFA contract towards the end of their 20's.

Putting up just under 20g and 60pts getting third line minutes is pretty damn good if you ask me.
- eichiefs9

I mean I can see where you think it's worth a gamble. I just don't think he's sniffing Elias Lindholm money.

https://www.capfriendly.c...4500000/06012018-08312018

I tried to pick a range from last years would be signings. Are you telling me Labanc is worth close to guys like Lindholm and Henrique who were already better established players?

I mean I can see where you think it's worth a gamble. I just don't think he's sniffing Elias Lindholm money.

https://www.capfriendly.c...4500000/06012018-08312018

I tried to pick a range from last years would be signings. Are you telling me Labanc is worth close to guys like Lindholm and Henrique who were already better established players?
- 2sticks1puck

https://www.fearthefin.co...-cap-2019-20-gary-bettman

Old article and it's sb nation so take that with a grain of salt, but this guy thinks he will get 3 million. I think Labanc is worth something, I'm just not giving him close to 5 yet. Of course he continues to improve then it will be seen as a discount. THinking in terms of your franchise, the best way for NYI to improve is to try to catch lightning in a bottle like this. I think we both agree you aren't really getting any big name UFAs for the time being, so you kind of have to create your own. If Labanc did become a ppg player then it would be a huge boon to you.

I mean I can see where you think it's worth a gamble. I just don't think he's sniffing Elias Lindholm money.

https://www.capfriendly.c...4500000/06012018-08312018

I tried to pick a range from last years would be signings. Are you telling me Labanc is worth close to guys like Lindholm and Henrique who were already better established players?
- 2sticks1puck

I think that Henrique contract is atrocious. He's not a bad player but nearly $6M is way too much money for what he is and how old he is.

Lindholm signed that deal when he had a career-high of 44pts, too. He's probably kicking himself now that he just posted a 78pt season.

Labanc's 56pts is more than Henrique has ever scored and more than Lindholm ever scored before he signed his current deal.

https://www.fearthefin.com/2018/12/5/18125286/san-jose-sharks-free-agency-contract-negotiations-nhl-salary-cap-2019-20-gary-bettman

Old article and it's sb nation so take that with a grain of salt, but this guy thinks he will get 3 million. I think Labanc is worth something, I'm just not giving him close to 5 yet. Of course he continues to improve then it will be seen as a discount. THinking in terms of your franchise, the best way for NYI to improve is to try to catch lightning in a bottle like this. I think we both agree you aren't really getting any big name UFAs for the time being, so you kind of have to create your own. If Labanc did become a ppg player then it would be a huge boon to you.
- 2sticks1puck

Yeah which is exactly why I'd be more than happy paying a 2nd round pick to get him signed at around $4.2M. I wouldn't cross the threshold into the "one 1st rd pick and one 3rd rd pick" territory though.

4x$4.2M let's him still get one big UFA contract while he's still in his prime. If he can be a consistent 20-40-60pt player for the Isles then I think that's great value. Anything more than that is a steal.

Yeah which is exactly why I'd be more than happy paying a 2nd round pick to get him signed at around $4.2M. I wouldn't cross the threshold into the "One 1st rd pick and one 3rd rd pick" territory though.

4x$4.2M let's him get one big UFA contract while he's still in his prime. If he can be a consistent 20-40-60pt player for the Isles then I think that's great value. Anything more than that is a steal.
- eichiefs9

The more I think about it from your perspective, the more you are sort of selling me on this. I still maintain if I was the Rangers I wouldn't do it. Say what you will about Henrique or Lindholm, but both those guys had shown some consistency in their numbers for a couple of years. Though I was shocked that Lindholm didn't have a better 17-18.

It's kind of funny, the more I looked at Labanc, it's sort of a smaller version of the Zib paradox we have. You have evidence of a slow improvement of production, but you kind of want to see him back up his career year so to speak.

I imagine if Labanc is signed, Eberle is toast.

Yeah which is exactly why I'd be more than happy paying a 2nd round pick to get him signed at around $4.2M. I wouldn't cross the threshold into the "one 1st rd pick and one 3rd rd pick" territory though.

4x$4.2M let's him still get one big UFA contract while he's still in his prime. If he can be a consistent 20-40-60pt player for the Isles then I think that's great value. Anything more than that is a steal.
- eichiefs9

I think he sounds like good value as well.

The more I think about it from your perspective, the more you are sort of selling me on this. I still maintain if I was the Rangers I wouldn't do it. Say what you will about Henrique or Lindholm, but both those guys had shown some consistency in their numbers for a couple of years. Though I was shocked that Lindholm didn't have a better 17-18.

It's kind of funny, the more I looked at Labanc, it's sort of a smaller version of the Zib paradox we have. You have evidence of a slow improvement of production, but you kind of want to see him back up his career year so to speak.

I imagine if Labanc is signed, Eberle is toast.
- 2sticks1puck

I think Eberle is toast either way. I see no value in bringing him back at age 29 for even a zero percent raise ($6M AAV). He was a good value trade but it's time to move on from him.

Frankly, I'd call up Doug Wilson and tell him "listen, I'm giving you the courtesy heads up that we're planning on offer sheeting Labanc. If you think you can match and/or that he won't sign the offer sheet, we'll take our chances. But if you want to hedge against losing him then we're willing to trade for his RFA rights". I'd happily pay a little more than the 2nd round pick to be able to actually negotiate with him.

I think Eberle is toast either way. I see no value in bringing him back at age 29 for even a zero percent raise ($6M AAV). He was a good value trade but it's time to move on from him.

Frankly, I'd call up Doug Wilson and tell him "listen, I'm giving you the courtesy heads up that we're planning on offer sheeting Labanc. If you think you can match and/or that he won't sign the offer sheet, we'll take our chances. But if you want to hedge against losing him then we're willing to trade for his RFA rights". I'd happily pay a little more than the 2nd round pick to be able to actually negotiate with him.
- eichiefs9

That actually would be a good move. Then I'd try to give him 3.5

That actually would be a good move. Then I'd try to give him 3.5
- 2sticks1puck

I am an admitted giant dork when it comes to this stuff, but CapFriendly's Armchair GM feature is fun to play with. Only thing that I don't like is that LTIR doesn't work the way it actually does in the real world.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm

I am an admitted giant dork when it comes to this stuff, but CapFriendly's Armchair GM feature is fun to play with. Only thing that I don't like is that LTIR doesn't work the way it actually does in the real world.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm
- eichiefs9

lol and you didn't put Labanc on your created team. I feel like if your Tampa trade happened, Ranger fans would burn a bunch of jerseys. I only skimmed your article. I'm about to leave for the day, so it was a TLDR because of that.

lol and you didn't put Labanc on your created team. I feel like if your Tampa trade happened, Ranger fans would burn a bunch of jerseys. I only skimmed your article. I'm about to leave for the day, so it was a TLDR because of that.
- 2sticks1puck

I have about 15 other teams that I didn't publish. Every pissbaby high school kid in North America tells you your an idiot every time you trade with their favorite team. I wish I could link it without publishing it to the idiot masses.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm
- eichiefs9

- mdw7413

Jacky Boy doesn’t play for US, and they get shutout. Hmmm, obviously Devils should take him

- mdw7413

This is what you can do to yourself

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=anHgU_1558416591

NSFW-ish...?

This is what you can do to yourself

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=anHgU_1558416591

NSFW-ish...?
- eichiefs9

Jesus, he is beating that thing like it stole his wallet.