This makes zero sense. If you get someone now and Patrick has issues and Frost and any other center prospects don’t pan out, you can then extend who you have and/or get another center then.
- NC Flyers Fan

A stopgap center is going to cost the same, if not more, and still have the same question marks. So there is no confusion my definition of a stopgap is someone who is older and only has 2 or 3 years of term at most.

Kadri is a great example of this. 28 years old and 3 years left. He plays 3C minutes with favorable matchups, but has had 2C type production. How will he produce when he has less favorable matchups? No one knows because he has never produced in that role.

I would rather see the Flyers use those same assets needed to get that 2C that is here longer. Remember Giroux has 3 years left on term and A LOT of things change in 3 years when a player gets to their 30's.

That's what doesn't add up. The inconsistency there. Center is more of a need than defense.
- MJL

I don’t agree. Defenseman can take about 3 more full NHL seasons to develop than forwards.

A stopgap center is going to cost the same, if not more, and still have the same question marks. So there is no confusion my definition of a stopgap is someone who is older and only has 2 or 3 years of term at most.

Kadri is a great example of this. 28 years old and 3 years left. He plays 3C minutes with favorable matchups, but has had 2C type production. How will he produce when he has less favorable matchups? No one knows because he has never produced in that role.

I would rather see the Flyers use those same assets needed to get that 2C that is here longer. Remember Giroux has 3 years left on term and A LOT of things change in 3 years when a player gets to their 30's.
- Glak18

Kadri plays 3C minutes because they have Matthews and Taveras. He's a 2C level player and he's a really solid 2 way center. I agree with the idea of a more long term fit but that drives the price up.

I don’t agree. Defenseman can take about 3 more full NHL seasons to develop than forwards.
- NC Flyers Fan

If Giroux is at wing they have Couturier and then Patrick followed by whom. Laughton? At defense they have Provorov, Gostisbehere, Sanheim, Gudas, Haag and Myers. Center is clearly a bigger need on the current team than defense. Not sure how you don't agree.

Kadri plays 3C minutes because they have Matthews and Taveras. He's a 2C level player and he's a really solid 2 way center. I agree with the idea of a more long term fit but that drives the price up.
- MJL

He played behind Matthews and Tavares LAST year, who did he play behind the previous 2 years when he had back to back 32 goal seasons?

A stopgap center is going to cost the same, if not more, and still have the same question marks. So there is no confusion my definition of a stopgap is someone who is older and only has 2 or 3 years of term at most.

Kadri is a great example of this. 28 years old and 3 years left. He plays 3C minutes with favorable matchups, but has had 2C type production. How will he produce when he has less favorable matchups? No one knows because he has never produced in that role.

I would rather see the Flyers use those same assets needed to get that 2C that is here longer. Remember Giroux has 3 years left on term and A LOT of things change in 3 years when a player gets to their 30's.
- Glak18

There is a big difference between 2-3 years and 6-7 years. Also between 4-5 AAV and 6-7 AAV. What’s your plan if Patrick breaks out? And Frost or another prospect is ready for the NHL? What if your longer term center flops?

He played behind Matthews and Tavares LAST year, who did he play behind the previous 2 years when he had back to back 32 goal seasons?
- Glak18

He didn't play 3C minutes in those years. In fact in 15/16, he led all Toronto forwards in ice time per game.

If Giroux is at wing they have Couturier and then Patrick followed by whom. Laughton? At defense they have Provorov, Gostisbehere, Sanheim, Gudas, Haag and Myers. Center is clearly a bigger need on the current team than defense. Not sure how you don't agree.
- MJL

You are placing a lot of faith in that Ghost and Provy both return to previous form and that none of the other young d have set backs and that Gudas and Provy remain healthy 100% the whole season.

On a day when I needed a smile, we get to wish Vic Stasiuk a sincere happy birthday.

He didn't play 3C minutes in those years. In fact in 15/16, he led all Toronto forwards in ice time per game.
- MJL

15/16 you say, what was his production like that year?

You are placing a lot of faith in that Ghost and Provy both return to previous form and that none of the other young d have set backs and that Gudas and Provy remain healthy 100% the whole season.
- NC Flyers Fan

You're making a bad faith argument here. This is the same as your double standard argument on being cautious of term and cap hit for a forward and not a defenseman. Patrick hasn't put it together at all compared to Provorov and Gostisbehere. Patrick isn't even at the point where he can have a set back yet. You really don't think things out real well. No offense.

15/16 you say, what was his production like that year?
- Glak18

17 and 45.

You are placing a lot of faith in that Ghost and Provy both return to previous form and that none of the other young d have set backs and that Gudas and Provy remain healthy 100% the whole season.
- NC Flyers Fan

Let's be honest, we all need faith in the WHOLE team next year. That really is all we have.

That is the biggest issue the Flyers have. Honestly Giroux is the closest the Flyers have to knowing what you are going to get. Is Coots going to be better defensively than last year? I hope so. Is JvR going to play more games where he doesn't make his linemates do all the work? I hope so, especially for 7m. What's the realistic expectations of Hart? Will any of the younger players regress (TK, Patrick, Lindblom) like Provorov did?

This whole team is a question mark. Bottom line is no matter who the Flyers add the players that are there now have to be better....EVERY night from beginning to end of games.

It's been a solid 5-6 years of hearing about these slow starts and not playing a full 60 minutes every single night. The organization, the players, the fans and media all know it and this is the year no one should ever accept it. So this year the most important person is Taryn Hatcher, so when Giroux says "We just need to play a full 60 minutes" after a terrible loss then Taryn needs to say "You knew this last year, but are unwilling to change this year, maybe you are the problem".

17 and 45.
- MJL

So 3C production as a 2C and 2C production as a 3C...I'd rather take my chance with Patrick at 2C.

So 3C production as a 2C and 2C production as a 3C...I'd rather take my chance with Patrick at 2C.
- Glak18

Again, it comes down to the cost. The team around him in 15/16 wasn't as good either.

Again, it comes down to the cost. The team around him in 15/16 wasn't as good either.
- MJL

Agreed on both points, but that cost I feel is more than I want the Flyers to pay and they will have to pay trading with a conference rival.

Agreed on both points, but that cost I feel is more than I want the Flyers to pay and they will have to pay trading with a conference rival.
- Glak18

I'd be looking at something like a 2nd round pick and a mid level prospect. If they want more, pass.

I'd be looking at something like a 2nd round pick and a mid level prospect. If they want more, pass.
- MJL

I would be fine with that offer. Then I would offer some package including Ghost for Trouba, even though I am not the biggest fan. Finally call it a day.

If Giroux is at wing they have Couturier and then Patrick followed by whom. Laughton? At defense they have Provorov, Gostisbehere, Sanheim, Gudas, Haag and Myers. Center is clearly a bigger need on the current team than defense. Not sure how you don't agree.
- MJL

Center is a bigger need because everyone is so hung up on Giroux being at wing. I would be blown away if Giroux ever saw 100 points again. I would be blown away if he ever saw 90 this late in his career. Couturier’s career high is 76, which is fantastic for Couturier. However, Giroux still tops those point totals no matter what forward position he plays, center or wing. Giroux is top three best faceoff man in the league. Older players like Bergeron and Sta can still play center effectively. I also don’t buy the wear and tear excuse. Wingers have to forcheck to be effective, play along the wall while expecting to be hit most and get in front of point shots. I almost feel like Giroux is safer at center.

Giroux, Couturier, Patrick and Laughton on paper looks strong down the middle. Giroux on wing complicates this a lot.

You're making a bad faith argument here. This is the same as your double standard argument on being cautious of term and cap hit for a forward and not a defenseman. Patrick hasn't put it together at all compared to Provorov and Gostisbehere. Patrick isn't even at the point where he can have a set back yet. You really don't think things out real well. No offense.
- MJL

Listen, I understand the argument for a center. You don’t understand the argument for a defenseman. Without you understanding what I’m saying (or you simply dismissing it because you don’t agree) this conversation can’t continue.

I’ve very far from the only one who thinks the Flyers need a veteran RH top defenseman. Maybe it’s not me you wish to criticize. No offense.

Listen, I understand the argument for a center. You don’t understand the argument for a defenseman. Without you understanding what I’m saying (or you simply dismissing it because you don’t agree) this conversation can’t continue.

I’ve very far from the only one who thinks the Flyers need a veteran RH top defenseman. Maybe it’s not me you wish to criticize. No offense.
- NC Flyers Fan

You're wrong. I absolutely understand the need for a defenseman. I didn't at any time state that there wasn't a need for a defenseman. So the idea that this conversation can't continue is nonsense. What I've done is blown a hole in the idea that defense is a bigger need than center and your narrative of not being concerned about term and cap hit with defense compared to center. Which makes zero sense when center is the bigger need on the team currently.

Again with Giroux at Wing. Center depth is below

Couturier
Patrick
Laughton

On defense the depth is

Provorov
Gostisbehere
Sanheim
Gudas
Haag
Myers
MacDonald


Which position is stronger currently heading into the next season. Defense or Center?

Center is a bigger need because everyone is so hung up on Giroux being at wing. I would be blown away if Giroux ever saw 100 points again. I would be blown away if he ever saw 90 this late in his career. Couturier’s career high is 76, which is fantastic for Couturier. However, Giroux still tops those point totals no matter what forward position he plays, center or wing. Giroux is top three best faceoff man in the league. Older players like Bergeron and Sta can still play center effectively. I also don’t buy the wear and tear excuse. Wingers have to forcheck to be effective, play along the wall while expecting to be hit most and get in front of point shots. I almost feel like Giroux is safer at center.

Giroux, Couturier, Patrick and Laughton on paper looks strong down the middle. Giroux on wing complicates this a lot.
- SuperSchennBros

If the Flyers can’t land a center on a reasonable deal, I’m absolutely fine with G at center. Maybe he produces a little more on wing which he then prefers, but G can play center.

Let's be honest, we all need faith in the WHOLE team next year. That really is all we have.

That is the biggest issue the Flyers have. Honestly Giroux is the closest the Flyers have to knowing what you are going to get. Is Coots going to be better defensively than last year? I hope so. Is JvR going to play more games where he doesn't make his linemates do all the work? I hope so, especially for 7m. What's the realistic expectations of Hart? Will any of the younger players regress (TK, Patrick, Lindblom) like Provorov did?

This whole team is a question mark. Bottom line is no matter who the Flyers add the players that are there now have to be better....EVERY night from beginning to end of games.

It's been a solid 5-6 years of hearing about these slow starts and not playing a full 60 minutes every single night. The organization, the players, the fans and media all know it and this is the year no one should ever accept it. So this year the most important person is Taryn Hatcher, so when Giroux says "We just need to play a full 60 minutes" after a terrible loss then Taryn needs to say "You knew this last year, but are unwilling to change this year, maybe you are the problem".
- Glak18

I was reading along fine until the last paragraph. I hardly see how blaming one of the most consistent guys who is also the team’s best player is helpful.

If the Flyers can’t land a center on a reasonable deal, I’m absolutely fine with G at center. Maybe he produces a little more on wing which he then prefers, but G can play center.
- NC Flyers Fan

Giroux can play center but according to reports, in exit interviews Giroux expressed his desire to play on the wing and that he feels wing is his better position at this point of his career. I expect the Flyers to make every effort to accommodate that wish.

Center is a bigger need because everyone is so hung up on Giroux being at wing. I would be blown away if Giroux ever saw 100 points again. I would be blown away if he ever saw 90 this late in his career. Couturier’s career high is 76, which is fantastic for Couturier. However, Giroux still tops those point totals no matter what forward position he plays, center or wing. Giroux is top three best faceoff man in the league. Older players like Bergeron and Sta can still play center effectively. I also don’t buy the wear and tear excuse. Wingers have to forcheck to be effective, play along the wall while expecting to be hit most and get in front of point shots. I almost feel like Giroux is safer at center.

Giroux, Couturier, Patrick and Laughton on paper looks strong down the middle. Giroux on wing complicates this a lot.
- SuperSchennBros

1. Giroux didn't move to wing because of injury concerns, that was made up by a hack writer and naive people still just go along with it because they don't know better.

2. Obviously Giroux didn't stop taking faceoffs

Giroux
2018-19 - 1164 Faceoffs @ 57.9%
2017-18 - 1088 Faceoffs @ 58.6%
2016-17 - 1748 Faceoffs @ 55.9%

Couturier
2018-19 - 1323 Faceoffs @ 57.1%
2017-18 - 1001 Faceoffs @ 52.8%
2016-17 - 1066 Faceoffs @ 55.1%

3. The reason Giroux plays the wing is because he can generate more offense on his off-wing, which he slides to even when he plays center, but has less responsibility playing wing.

4. The complicated part then becomes the left side. JvR is terrible playing with Giroux and the line becomes a liability defensively which was evident throughout last year when they were pair together. Who else plays the left side? Slide Lindblom up?

There's a reason the team plays better with Giroux on wing.