1. Giroux didn't move to wing because of injury concerns, that was made up by a hack writer and naive people still just go along with it because they don't know better.

2. Obviously Giroux didn't stop taking faceoffs

Giroux
2018-19 - 1164 Faceoffs @ 57.9%
2017-18 - 1088 Faceoffs @ 58.6%
2016-17 - 1748 Faceoffs @ 55.9%

Couturier
2018-19 - 1323 Faceoffs @ 57.1%
2017-18 - 1001 Faceoffs @ 52.8%
2016-17 - 1066 Faceoffs @ 55.1%

3. The reason Giroux plays the wing is because he can generate more offense on his off-wing, which he slides to even when he plays center, but has less responsibility playing wing.

4. The complicated part then becomes the left side. JvR is terrible playing with Giroux and the line becomes a liability defensively which was evident throughout last year when they were pair together. Who else plays the left side? Slide Lindblom up?

There's a reason the team plays better with Giroux on wing.
- Glak18

I disagree that wear and tear and injury concerns didn't play a part in it. I believe it was the single biggest reason why they moved him to wing.

You're wrong. I absolutely understand the need for a defenseman. I didn't at any time state that there wasn't a need for a defenseman. So the idea that this conversation can't continue is nonsense. What I've done is blown a hole in the idea that defense is a bigger need than center and your narrative of not being concerned about term and cap hit with defense compared to center. Which makes zero sense when center is the bigger need on the team currently.

Which position is stronger currently heading into the next season. Defense or Center?
- MJL

“your narrative of not being concerned about term and cap hit with defense”
This is false. Not my thinking at all. I talked about the salary on Karlsson only (one exception). I talked about spending assets (prospects, draft picks, perhaps a roster defenseman). I maintain that the total expenditures need to fit in budget going forward. I am simply allocating more for the top defenseman to be acquired.

Center by a smidge.

1. Giroux didn't move to wing because of injury concerns, that was made up by a hack writer and naive people still just go along with it because they don't know better.

2. Obviously Giroux didn't stop taking faceoffs

Giroux
2018-19 - 1164 Faceoffs @ 57.9%
2017-18 - 1088 Faceoffs @ 58.6%
2016-17 - 1748 Faceoffs @ 55.9%

Couturier
2018-19 - 1323 Faceoffs @ 57.1%
2017-18 - 1001 Faceoffs @ 52.8%
2016-17 - 1066 Faceoffs @ 55.1%

3. The reason Giroux plays the wing is because he can generate more offense on his off-wing, which he slides to even when he plays center, but has less responsibility playing wing.

4. The complicated part then becomes the left side. JvR is terrible playing with Giroux and the line becomes a liability defensively which was evident throughout last year when they were pair together. Who else plays the left side? Slide Lindblom up?

There's a reason the team plays better with Giroux on wing.
- Glak18

You have two really good centermen who can take faceoffs, why are they both wasted on the ice together? Why does Giroux have to step in for Sean Couturier at all?

What you offer about Giroux being moved to his off wing, Giroux played all three forward spots. RW nearing the end of the season on a line with Couturier and JvR. JvR’s most effective production came playing on a line with Giroux. At one point in the season, JvR was THE HOTTEST scorer in the league and he only plays with LW.

Giroux and JvR are not terrible together. The JvR, Giroux, Konecny line stayed together for sometime.

“your narrative of not being concerned about term and cap hit with defense”
This is false. Not my thinking at all. I talked about the salary on Karlsson only (one exception). I talked about spending assets (prospects, draft picks, perhaps a roster defenseman). I maintain that the total expenditures need to fit in budget going forward. I am simply allocating more for the top defenseman to be acquired.

Center by a smidge.
- NC Flyers Fan

Karlsson is the the only UFA player available who fits the criteria you offered so again, you're making a bad faith argument. Again why allocate more for a defenseman when center is the biggest need? By far.

1. Giroux didn't move to wing because of injury concerns, that was made up by a hack writer and naive people still just go along with it because they don't know better.

2. Obviously Giroux didn't stop taking faceoffs

Giroux
2018-19 - 1164 Faceoffs @ 57.9%
2017-18 - 1088 Faceoffs @ 58.6%
2016-17 - 1748 Faceoffs @ 55.9%

Couturier
2018-19 - 1323 Faceoffs @ 57.1%
2017-18 - 1001 Faceoffs @ 52.8%
2016-17 - 1066 Faceoffs @ 55.1%

3. The reason Giroux plays the wing is because he can generate more offense on his off-wing, which he slides to even when he plays center, but has less responsibility playing wing.

4. The complicated part then becomes the left side. JvR is terrible playing with Giroux and the line becomes a liability defensively which was evident throughout last year when they were pair together. Who else plays the left side? Slide Lindblom up?

There's a reason the team plays better with Giroux on wing.
- Glak18

Absolutely.

Center might only be a one year issue.

I was reading along fine until the last paragraph. I hardly see how blaming one of the most consistent guys who is also the team’s best player is helpful.
- NC Flyers Fan

Yeah it wasn't really meant to blame Giroux 100% for the actions of the whole team, but he is the captain and has been one of the constant factors through ALL the changes and different players.

You would think someone who hates to lose would be a bigger influence on the team culture. When JvR or Voracek are floating around, does Giroux say anything to them about it? I don't know, but if he did it didn't make a difference.

What else could cause a full team to consistently come out flat or not have the expected effort for a full game? I mean you can't blame the coaches, there has been many now with those same results. How about the GM? Hextall is gone and there were times under Fletcher. Ownership? Done under Snider and now under the corporate monster.

So if Giroux is yelling or even making his teammates accountable, but they don't listen then what does that mean? I mean this isn't just a problem when they have a bad losing streak, this happens when they are winning games too. I mean it is understandable when a single player is off their game, it's tough to be on for 82+ games, but a whole team so often? That's not something that just happens.

You have two really good centermen who can take faceoffs, why are they both wasted on the ice together? Why does Giroux have to step in for Sean Couturier at all?

What you offer about Giroux being moved to his off wing, Giroux played all three forward spots. RW nearing the end of the season on a line with Couturier and JvR. JvR’s most effective production came playing on a line with Giroux. At one point in the season, JvR was THE HOTTEST scorer in the league and he only plays with LW.

Giroux and JvR are not terrible together. The JvR, Giroux, Konecny line stayed together for sometime.
- SuperSchennBros

The first part is easy to answer by following the games. Giroux is right handed and Coots is left handed. It is one of the reasons they have been a good faceoff team because they take the faceoff on each of their strong sides. So if Giroux and Coots
are centering their own line they will still be out together for faceoffs due to good strategy. Then you have to risk something happen when one of the guys have to change with the winger who normally plays on the line. There is a reason they were #1 in faceoffs last year.


And they were scored on A LOT!

Karlsson is the the only UFA player available who fits the criteria you offered so again, you're making a bad faith argument. Again why allocate more for a defenseman when center is the biggest need? By far.
- MJL

Between defense and center, you asked what position I think has more strength. I answered center by a smidge. Clearly, we disagree.

I like Karlsson and think he would be a big upgrade. I also have repeatedly mentioned trade options...here are 2. Jared Spurgeon and PK Subban.

And they were scored on A LOT!
- Glak18

Is that one line to blame or has the entire team had a down the season? We were a minus team as a whole. All you have to do is look at the stands. We finished with a -37 differential. That’s not one line. That’s on using 8 goaltenders. That’s Provorov or Gostisbehere or Patrick not taking the next step. That’s on having minor league players on our fourth line. That’s getting scored short handed.

Like, when you say the line of Giroux, Konecny and JvR got scored on a lot in capital letters, you’re leaving me to ask...what’s a lot vs what they scored. Saying JvR and Giroux were horrible together, that’s not entirely true.

Between defense and center, you asked what position I think has more strength. I answered center by a smidge. Clearly, we disagree.

I like Karlsson and think he would be a big upgrade. I also have repeatedly mentioned trade options...here are 2. Jared Spurgeon and PK Subban.
- NC Flyers Fan

Karlsson sounds like an easy choice, but does he even want to play in Philly? Chances are very slim even if they open the checkbook to give him more than the 10-11m is will be getting anyway. Then you have his injury history, which was on display again in the playoffs. That's a lot of money knowing the guy will be missing games.

Subban...again lots of money plus lots of assets (one of Sanheim, Myers, Frost or Farabee) would have to go back at least.


Spurgeon would be extremely redundant with Ghost on the team, so Ghost would 100% have to be traded while giving up other assets to get him.

Is that one line to blame or has the entire team had a down the season? We were a minus team as a whole. All you have to do is look at the stands. We finished with a -37 differential. That’s not one line. That’s on using 8 goaltenders. That’s Provorov or Gostisbehere or Patrick not taking the next step. That’s on having minor league players on our fourth line. That’s getting scored short handed.

Like, when you say the line of Giroux, Konecny and JvR got scored on a lot in capital letters, you’re leaving me to ask...what’s a lot vs what they scored. Saying JvR and Giroux were horrible together, that’s not entirely true.
- SuperSchennBros

When I say scored on a lot I don't mean the team was giving up lots of goals, I mean that line spent 80% of the time in their own end and gave up twice as many goals as they produced. So when players on a line are scoring a point per game and still a major minus player...that's not good one bit.

His contract is what makes him a poor choice as a reclamation project.
- MJL

That's the catch. If it wasn't for that contract, the trade cost wouldn't be so low.

But he's only 24 now, and that contract expires when he's 28. It's not immovable, especially if he turns his production around (which is likely, given the Flyers' wingers and need for playmaking on PP2).

From a relative cost perspective, it's a lot cheaper than going out and handing a Nelson/Hayes 6x6, or trading Ghost for Kadri/Nylander.

That's the catch. If it wasn't for that contract, the trade cost wouldn't be so low.

But he's only 24 now, and that contract expires when he's 28. It's not immovable, especially if he turns his production around (which is likely, given the Flyers' wingers and need for playmaking on PP2).

From a relative cost perspective, it's a lot cheaper than going out and handing a Nelson/Hayes 6x6, or trading Ghost for Kadri/Nylander.
- Tomahawk

Problem is I think he sticks in Columbus and the ufas leave. Their gonna need him and not trade him at his lowest value. Too smart of an organization

Karlsson sounds like an easy choice, but does he even want to play in Philly? Chances are very slim even if they open the checkbook to give him more than the 10-11m is will be getting anyway. Then you have his injury history, which was on display again in the playoffs. That's a lot of money knowing the guy will be missing games.

Subban...again lots of money plus lots of assets (one of Sanheim, Myers, Frost or Farabee) would have to go back at least.


Spurgeon would be extremely redundant with Ghost on the team, so Ghost would 100% have to be traded while giving up other assets to get him.
- Glak18

IDK if Karlsson or Subban have interest. There are also the younger options like a Trouba and Hamilton.

Spurgeon I thought only has one more year. They could theoretically watch Ghost for another year before deciding.

That fact is we have assets to work with—especially extra mid-range prospects.

When I say scored on a lot I don't mean the team was giving up lots of goals, I mean that line spent 80% of the time in their own end and gave up twice as many goals as they produced. So when players on a line are scoring a point per game and still a major minus player...that's not good one bit.
- Glak18

I’m gonna need a link to this information you’re providing and I need you to keep in mind that the problem here isn’t solely JvR and Giroux playing together or Giroux playing center. Also there is no mention of the defense. There isn’t three players on the ice, there are five, not including the goaltender.

80% is a big number to confidently pull out. You’re almost singlehandedly blaming this line or Giroux at center for our season going south.

Between defense and center, you asked what position I think has more strength. I answered center by a smidge. Clearly, we disagree.

I like Karlsson and think he would be a big upgrade. I also have repeatedly mentioned trade options...here are 2. Jared Spurgeon and PK Subban.
- NC Flyers Fan

Clearly that's an absurd statement and another bad faith argument on your part. It's not even close between the two positions on the current team.

Anyone can pick a name out of a hat as a trade option.

That's the catch. If it wasn't for that contract, the trade cost wouldn't be so low.

But he's only 24 now, and that contract expires when he's 28. It's not immovable, especially if he turns his production around (which is likely, given the Flyers' wingers and need for playmaking on PP2).

From a relative cost perspective, it's a lot cheaper than going out and handing a Nelson/Hayes 6x6, or trading Ghost for Kadri/Nylander.
- Tomahawk

If you make the move and he doesn't play well, it will become immovable. No reason to take a risk on a player with that kind of contract.

If you make the move and he doesn't play well, it will become immovable. No reason to take a risk on a player with that kind of contract.
- MJL

If you’re talking about Nylander, while I think the risk is tempting, it’s still a titanic gamble. If Nylander sucks, we are stuck with him for awhile.

Between defense and center, you asked what position I think has more strength. I answered center by a smidge. Clearly, we disagree.

I like Karlsson and think he would be a big upgrade. I also have repeatedly mentioned trade options...here are 2. Jared Spurgeon and PK Subban.
- NC Flyers Fan

Common man, Giroux moves to wing and we only have one really good center and another with a really high upside. Outside of that, you’re pulling names out of a hat. Right now we’re talking about trading defense to make room for an upgrade of the same position.

For the record, should Giroux be pushed to wing and all signs point that he will, I think Patrick should play a lot. All situations. Most disagree with me. Some want to sign or trade for a top six forward. I’m all for allowing a young player earn his ice time but you have to give him the ice time before you can take ice time away. I think we should give Patrick the ball and let him run with it in his third pro season.

Clearly that's an absurd statement and another bad faith argument on your part. It's not even close between the two positions on the current team.

Anyone can pick a name out of a hat as a trade option.
- MJL

http://sonsofpenn.com/fiv...o-do-list-for-the-flyers/

https://www.nhl.com/flyer...er/t-277437426/c-67578703

Others think we need a veteran defenseman too. You list defenseman but are placing them in slots they haven’t proven to be able to play consistently. You don’t address the fact that 3 of them with high potential are ages 22-23 next season. One with very little NHL experience. You don’t acknowledge a fit difference with RH/LH or style of play. You don’t seem to acknowledge that their development paths will take multiple years longer than the forward prospects.

Common man, Giroux moves to wing and we only have one really good center and another with a really high upside. Outside of that, you’re pulling names out of a hat. Right now we’re talking about trading defense to make room for an upgrade of the same position.

For the record, should Giroux be pushed to wing and all signs point that he will, I think Patrick should play a lot. All situations. Most disagree with me. Some want to sign or trade for a top six forward. I’m all for allowing a young player earn his ice time but you have to give him the ice time before you can take ice time away. I think we should give Patrick the ball and let him run with it in his third pro season.
- SuperSchennBros

Name our #1 defenseman: is he fully developed? how confident are you in his consistency? Point projection? Partner fit? Special teams play?

Ditto #2-4 Name them. answers?


I’m serious.

I’m fairly confident in Giroux, Couturier and Laughton to be who they are. Patrick did at least produce similar points in back to back seasons and has a 2 way game.

Name our #1 defenseman: is he fully developed? how confident are you in his consistency? Point projection? Partner fit? Special teams play?

Ditto #2-4 Name them. answers?


I’m serious.

I’m fairly confident in Giroux, Couturier and Laughton to be who they are. Patrick did at least produce similar points in back to back seasons and has a 2 way game.
- NC Flyers Fan

Okay, we’re in total agreement in our centers or at least what they could be if our team/coach sticks to the plan.

As for our number one defenseman, his name is Ivan Provorov. I’m 100% confident in him and the process within his development. Consistency is just gonna have to wait within his game but what we see so far pretty special. The team as a whole is a different story.

Okay, we’re in total agreement in our centers or at least what they could be if our team/coach sticks to the plan.

As for our number one defenseman, his name is Ivan Provorov. I’m 100% confident in him and the process within his development. Consistency is just gonna have to wait within his game but what we see so far pretty special. The team as a whole is a different story.
- SuperSchennBros

While I agree that the team as a whole needs to get their act together...go ahead and finish the questions for defensemen #2-4.

The King has fallen.
- Streit2ThePoint

Im still standing

http://sonsofpenn.com/fiv...o-do-list-for-the-flyers/

https://www.nhl.com/flyer...er/t-277437426/c-67578703

Others think we need a veteran defenseman too. You list defenseman but are placing them in slots they haven’t proven to be able to play consistently. You don’t address the fact that 3 of them with high potential are ages 22-23 next season. One with very little NHL experience. You don’t acknowledge a fit difference with RH/LH or style of play. You don’t seem to acknowledge that their development paths will take multiple years longer than the forward prospects.
- NC Flyers Fan

More bad faith argument on your part. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand but I'm not questioning or debating that there is a need for a defenseman. Even with that lack of experience, the defense position on the Flyers is still stronger than the center position. You fail to acknowledge that the young defenseman who are currently already established as NHL players are ahead of the young forward development. The Flyers current 2nd line center has not in your words "proven to be able to play consistently". Leaving the Flyers with Couturier and Laughton! It's not close. Center is a bigger need on the current team.