Honest question here and I'm really not trying to be a Richard, but you didn't look ANY of this up did you?
- Rinosaur

Petts averaged 18 minutes as a Pen and Guds averaged 19. Petts started 53% in the D zone and Guds started 60%. I would say that’s pretty hefty for any teams third pair

Petts averaged 18 minutes as a Pen and Guds averaged 19. Petts started 53% in the D zone and Guds started 60%. I would say that’s pretty hefty for any teams third pair
- WSCTeton17

You're citing two separate things.

Petts in the playoffs was 18
Guds in the playoffs was 16 (19 in the regular season)
JJ in the playoffs was 15

Petts' numbers were also higher because he actually got PP time. The regular season is a bad gauge because of the rotating door of injuries that occurred this year, but the playoffs were a more accurate snapshot of what you'd expect with everyone healthy.

You should expect your 3rd pair to play around 14/15 minutes a game and the Pens delivered on that for the most part.

I'm big on transition game vs. possession game when it comes to defensemen. I'm not saying I'm fine with them being poor in possession, but but I think in this day and age, the ability to move the puck from one end to the other is a HUGE for a dman vs. a forward.

Players who aren't that great on transition: Pettersson, Gudbranson and Johnson. Believe it or not, but Riikola's numbers in that arena are better than those guys. I like Pettersson and I do see potential for a 2nd pairing dman there, but I'm also not sold on him.

I think the Pens have an opportunity to really re-shape their defense. I'd honestly be fine if they moved out Pettersson as well as Guds and Johnson.

We can offer you a gently used AMac at the low cost of $2.5M for one year.

Honest question here and I'm really not trying to be a Richard, but you didn't look ANY of this up did you?
- Rinosaur

Sure I did, and I'm positive you didn't.

The lowest of the Pens 7 primary defensemen in average ES ice time per game was Maatta at 15:27. Pettersson was 15:30. Most teams (not all as a few have a 6th defenseman around 14 a game with even as low as 12. Pens even gave Riikola and Oleksiak over 15 a game.

Note, there are a few other teams like Tampa that also spread out ice time, but the majority have a big gap between the 2nd and third pair.

You're citing two separate things.

Petts in the playoffs was 18
Guds in the playoffs was 16 (19 in the regular season)
JJ in the playoffs was 15

Petts' numbers were also higher because he actually got PP time. The regular season is a bad gauge because of the rotating door of injuries that occurred this year, but the playoffs were a more accurate snapshot of what you'd expect with everyone healthy.

You should expect your 3rd pair to play around 14/15 minutes a game and the Pens delivered on that for the most part.
- Rinosaur

This post is terrible.

Why use a 4 game sample as your definative data? Too small.

Even at that, how does this prove JJ, on the second pair, played more than the third pair when you just said he didn't?

Every Pens defenseman plays either on the PP or PK, other than Letang who does both. Throw that out and use ES time to see how much each pair is beig used.

All 7 of the defensemen the Pens used averaged almost 18 minutes a game (Pettersson was 4 seconds short). Other than Zach Trotman, even the replacements averaged at least 16. Zach Trotman is literally the only guy who came close to under 15 minutes a game so no, the Pens did not play their third pair 14-15 minutes a night.

Seriously, if you're going to say I make this up, at least take 15 seconds and look up average ice time before you post made up numbers to see if they're true.

This post is terrible.

Why use a 4 game sample as your definative data? Too small.

Even at that, how does this prove JJ, on the second pair, played more than the third pair when you just said he didn't?

Every Pens defenseman plays either on the PP or PK, other than Letang who does both. Throw that out and use ES time to see how much each pair is beig used.

All 7 of the defensemen the Pens used averaged almost 18 minutes a game (Pettersson was 4 seconds short). Other than Zach Trotman, even the replacements averaged at least 16. Zach Trotman is literally the only guy who came close to under 15 minutes a game so no, the Pens did not play their third pair 14-15 minutes a night.
- Tojo.

It really is crazy how much those guys play. Is it just them trying to limit Tangers TOI like they mentioned last year? Seems like a recipe for disaster.

It really is crazy how much those guys play. Is it just them trying to limit Tangers TOI like they mentioned last year? Seems like a recipe for disaster.
- Thorny87

No, Letang is still way up there, they just balance the ice time more 2-6 than a lot of other teams.

I think hope this means they have a plan to get rid of JJ, but likely also means Maatta will be going as well. That leaves Gud/Riik/Ruw battling for the 5th/6th spots, assuming everyone else is still here.
- iworkatinitech

I think they’re gonna try and move Schultz and figure out a way to get Subban.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Subban
Pettersson-Guddy
Rikky

Move Schultz and JJ and Kessel and they makes room for Subban and forward replacement for Kessel.

I think they’re gonna try and move Schultz and figure out a way to get Subban.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Subban
Pettersson-Guddy
Rikky

Move Schultz and JJ and Kessel and they makes room for Subban and forward replacement for Kessel.
- j.boyd919

I hope you're right. Im totally fine with all of that.

Sure I did, and I'm positive you didn't.

The lowest of the Pens 7 primary defensemen in average ES ice time per game was Maatta at 15:27. Pettersson was 15:30. Most teams (not all as a few have a 6th defenseman around 14 a game with even as low as 12. Pens even gave Riikola and Oleksiak over 15 a game.

Note, there are a few other teams like Tampa that also spread out ice time, but the majority have a big gap between the 2nd and third pair.
- Tojo.

I actually did look. You didn’t.

This post is terrible.

Why use a 4 game sample as your definative data? Too small.

Even at that, how does this prove JJ, on the second pair, played more than the third pair when you just said he didn't?

Every Pens defenseman plays either on the PP or PK, other than Letang who does both. Throw that out and use ES time to see how much each pair is beig used.

All 7 of the defensemen the Pens used averaged almost 18 minutes a game (Pettersson was 4 seconds short). Other than Zach Trotman, even the replacements averaged at least 16. Zach Trotman is literally the only guy who came close to under 15 minutes a game so no, the Pens did not play their third pair 14-15 minutes a night.

Seriously, if you're going to say I make this up, at least take 15 seconds and look up average ice time before you post made up numbers to see if they're true.
- Tojo.

I’m using a sample size that didn’t include long-term injuries where bottom pair guys had play more minutes. Crazy logic, I know.

Anyone have DK’s trade updates?

I actually did look. You didn’t.

I’m using a sample size that didn’t include long-term injuries where bottom pair guys had play more minutes. Crazy logic, I know.
- Rinosaur

Ok, so you answered nothing, probably because you didn't understand any of it.

When I can use Pettersson instead of Gudbranson to prove 3rd pairing defensemen play more than 14-15 minutes on the Pens, it's not based on random injuries.

I think they’re gonna try and move Schultz and figure out a way to get Subban.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Subban
Pettersson-Guddy
Rikky

Move Schultz and JJ and Kessel and they makes room for Subban and forward replacement for Kessel.
- j.boyd919

Hope so. What do you think of Subban/Smith (also 1 year from free agency) for Kessel/Schultz as a base (think Pens might need to add something)

Hope so. What do you think of Subban/Smith (also 1 year from free agency) for Kessel/Schultz as a base (think Pens might need to add something)
- Tojo.

I think we all know it’s gonna be Subban and Bonino coming back. And then Bones is gonna suck ass because he’s old. Continuing the recycling of old GMJR players that GMJR is known for. But I wouldn’t be mad at Smith coming back. I think he’d become the de facto 3C. Giving Bjugstad and McCann the opportunity to slot on the wings aside Geno and Sid.

Guentzel-Sid-McCann
Simon-Geno-Bjugstad
Rust-Smith-Horny
ZAR-Bleuger-Johnson

Maybe?

I think we all know it’s gonna be Subban and Bonino coming back. And then Bones is gonna suck ass because he’s old. Continuing the recycling of old GMJR players that GMJR is known for. But I wouldn’t be mad at Smith coming back. I think he’d become the de facto 3C. Giving Bjugstad and McCann the opportunity to slot on the wings aside Geno and Sid.

Guentzel-Sid-McCann
Simon-Geno-Bjugstad
Rust-Smith-Horny
ZAR-Bleuger-Johnson

Maybe?
- j.boyd919

I figured Smith on the wing in Kessel's spot. He's Zucker with a little less offense. But it's another option to play with.

Those 12 and 13 spots are questionable. Johnson would have to earn a spot still for me. Hope either Palve or a prospect surprises in camp or else they sign a cheap vet bounce back guy.

I figured Smith on the wing in Kessel's spot. He's Zucker with a little less offense. But it's another option to play with.

Those 12 and 13 spots are questionable. Johnson would have to earn a spot still for me. Hope either Palve or a prospect surprises in camp or else they sign a cheap vet bounce back guy.
- Tojo.

Has smith been playing primarily on the wing? I thought he’s been a center there? I could be wrong.

Anyone have DK’s trade updates?
- Rinosaur

He says Maatta, JJ and Kessel are the names he's still hearing. Maatta is more about cap space since it's unlikely a Kessel/JJ deal clears any space. He hasn't heard anything about Letang or Malkin in weeks.

He says Maatta, JJ and Kessel are the names he's still hearing. Maatta is more about cap space since it's unlikely a Kessel/JJ deal clears any space. He hasn't heard anything about Letang or Malkin in weeks.
- madmike71

Interesting, thanks!

Has smith been playing primarily on the wing? I thought he’s been a center there? I could be wrong.
- j.boyd919

Wing. Centers have been RyJo, Turris, Bones

Wing. Centers have been RyJo, Turris, Bones
- WSCTeton17

Ahhh I forgot about Turris.

Ahhh I forgot about Turris.
- j.boyd919

If he brings back Bonino Im out lol

Ok, so you answered nothing, probably because you didn't understand any of it.

When I can use Pettersson instead of Gudbranson to prove 3rd pairing defensemen play more than 14-15 minutes on the Pens, it's not based on random injuries.
- Tojo.

I know this will blow your mind, but I have this thing called a job and after early morning I don’t have time to have lengthy discussions and research hockey stats.

I know this will blow your mind, but I have this thing called a job and after early morning I don’t have time to have lengthy discussions and research hockey stats.
- Rinosaur

Then don't make up what you haven't looked at.