It's pretty much been a fan-wide and media-wide conspiracy theory that he was robbed.
- Rinosaur

Fixed. MVP isn't a leading scorer award.

Fixed. MVP isn't a leading scorer award.
- Tojo.

You act like Sid ran away with it and it was clear cut. It was super (frank)ing close.

https://www.tsn.ca/ballot...conn-smythe-vote-1.508739

It's behind DK's paywall, but he wrote this a couple of weeks ago...

What I’m comfortable sharing at this level of confirmation is this: Kessel’s well-known passion for poker/gambling affected his focus and preparation, in the eyes of the team, including into the Stanley Cup playoffs. Also, his open insubordination toward Mike Sullivan and the assistant coaches, as well as repeated vocal berating of the team’s staff — media relations people, equipment managers and others — has more than worn thin with all concerned. I’ve witnessed the latter with my own eyes — as have several others — most recently in the PPG Paints Arena locker room minutes after the Game 4 loss. When the team was winning, it was mostly shrugged off with Phil-being-Phil jokes. Not anymore. — Dejan Kovacevic

Yohe has also mentioned similar stuff.
- madmike71

I bet he likes museums also

You act like Sid ran away with it and it was clear cut. It was super (frank)ing close.

https://www.tsn.ca/ballot...conn-smythe-vote-1.508739
- Victoro311

Didn't mean to, Phil was great. But he wasn't the MVP, nor do I feel he was robbed.

You act like Sid ran away with it and it was clear cut. It was super (frank)ing close.

https://www.tsn.ca/ballot...conn-smythe-vote-1.508739
- Victoro311

Dude has been on his "two-way forward" horse.

Didn't mean to, Phil was great. But he wasn't the MVP, nor do I feel he was robbed.
- Tojo.

All I’m saying is with a vote that close I think there’s a solid chance that tie went to the face of the league because, well, he’s the face of the damn league and hadn’t won that award before. I think saying Phil was arguably the rightful Conn Smythe winner is a pretty measured take seeing as how almost half the voters felt he was.

All I’m saying is with a vote that close I think there’s a solid chance that tie went to the face of the league because, well, he’s the face of the damn league and hadn’t won that award before. I think saying Phil was arguably the rightful Conn Smythe winner is a pretty measured take seeing as how almost half the voters felt he was.
- Victoro311

It was Sids lifetime achievement award. Kessel for sure got jobbed because Sid hadn’t won one yet. Sid was great that year. Kessel was better. Dude was an absolute stud that first cup.

It was Sids lifetime achievement award. Kessel for sure got jobbed because Sid hadn’t won one yet. Sid was great that year. Kessel was better. Dude was an absolute stud that first cup.
- j.boyd919

He definitely had a couple dandies but he also greatly benefitted from easier matchups and he had some easy tap ins. But also, that whole line had tap ins because of their chemistry

Some guy said it the other day. Are Phil’s snapshot goals becoming fewer and fewer? Could be. Sure seems that way

The constant insistence that Phil be a two way player because "that's the right way to play" when back checking is literally not in his skill set is stupid. Being told to be a different player, especially when you are an established great player at what you do, gets (frank)ing old. It would be the equivalent of if my boss told me to run regression analysis in my day to day when I am very clearly not a math guy, and then got constantly pissed off at me because there are a ton of errors in my math. I'd check out and start circulating my resume within months if I were in that kind of situation.

The issue with Phil is that coaches have never liked his process because he is an offensive one way player and hockey coaches can't (frank)ing deal with a guy that has no defensive acumen whatsoever, damn the elite-level results.
- Victoro311

You just spent a lot of time talking around the words selfish and lazy. Phil is a selfish and lazy player. Back checking isn’t a skill set. Phil’s fast, (frank)ing back check you selfish lazy fat American. You’re just making excuses because you like Phil memes. Good defensive forwards are able to understand that even though it sucks to skate without the puck it’s best for the team, also the most effective way to get back the puck. It’s a people thing, not a player thing.

It was Sids lifetime achievement award. Kessel for sure got jobbed because Sid hadn’t won one yet. Sid was great that year. Kessel was better. Dude was an absolute stud that first cup.
- j.boyd919

There were a lot of voters that wanted to shove it in the Leafs face by voting for Kessel, only reason it was close.

Phil had a great playoffs but it's easier to do that when you get the easy 3rd line matchups every series. Sid did what he did playing against every teams top center and defensive pair. Would have been robbery if sid didnt get it.

The constant insistence that Phil be a two way player because "that's the right way to play" when back checking is literally not in his skill set is stupid. Being told to be a different player, especially when you are an established great player at what you do, gets (frank)ing old. It would be the equivalent of if my boss told me to run regression analysis in my day to day when I am very clearly not a math guy, and then got constantly pissed off at me because there are a ton of errors in my math. I'd check out and start circulating my resume within months if I were in that kind of situation.

The issue with Phil is that coaches have never liked his process because he is an offensive one way player and hockey coaches can't (frank)ing deal with a guy that has no defensive acumen whatsoever, damn the elite-level results.
- Victoro311

You wouldn't get to the point of checking out, you would get fired. Your arguement is justifying the point you are arguing against.

No one is asking Phil to be Bergeron. They want him to come back to receive an outlet pass rather than hanging in the neutral zone. Maybe at least try to win a battle to get the puck out at the blue line rather than floating out to avoid contact.

Dude has been on his "two-way forward" horse.
- Rinosaur

I'll take elite at both ends like Sid every time.

Largely annoyed by only using analytics when it backs up the arguments for players people like.

JJ's are bad so he's bad (and he is).

Hornqvist's are good but people want him gone so we'll ignore them.

Phil's are bad but we like him so we'll ignore them.

It was Sids lifetime achievement award. Kessel for sure got jobbed because Sid hadn’t won one yet. Sid was great that year. Kessel was better. Dude was an absolute stud that first cup.
- j.boyd919

I really dont think it was clear cut that it should of been Kessels. Arguable for sure but Sid did so much more than Phil including scoring 3 of the game winners in the ECF and only ended up with 3 less points overall than Phil when it was all said and done.

I really dont think it was clear cut that it should of been Kessels. Arguable for sure but Sid did so much more than Phil including scoring 3 of the game winners in the ECF and only ended up with 3 less points overall than Phil when it was all said and done.
- MattStrat

Agree. It was close. I probably would have leaned toward Phil, but the case for Crosby was pretty easy too.

You just spent a lot of time talking around the words selfish and lazy. Phil is a selfish and lazy player. Back checking isn’t a skill set. Phil’s fast, (frank)ing back check you selfish lazy fat American. You’re just making excuses because you like Phil memes. Good defensive forwards are able to understand that even though it sucks to skate without the puck it’s best for the team, also the most effective way to get back the puck. It’s a people thing, not a player thing.
- Grinder47

Nah.

I'll take elite at both ends like Sid every time.

Largely annoyed by only using analytics when it backs up the arguments for players people like.

JJ's are bad so he's bad (and he is).

Hornqvist's are good but people want him gone so we'll ignore them.

Phil's are bad but we like him so we'll ignore them.
- Tojo.

Hornqvist is good and he is a solid player. The issue is more with his contract and his production value to the team.

Phil’s poor analytics are offset by elite point production (playmaking ability and finishing ability), which is rare and having production like that can overcome poor analytics when your potting points the way he does.

I get that Phil’s underlying numbers aren’t that great but he’s a +129 goal differential at all strengths because of his elite PP abilities and that outweighs his poor analytics. If he had poor analytics and was dog poop on the power play then I’m with you. Ship him out.

I'll take elite at both ends like Sid every time.

Largely annoyed by only using analytics when it backs up the arguments for players people like.

JJ's are bad so he's bad (and he is).

Hornqvist's are good but people want him gone so we'll ignore them.

Phil's are bad but we like him so we'll ignore them.
- Tojo.

I agree with you Tojo. You’ve always been a pretty on the ball individual. Some are concerned that 72 won’t recover from his recent concussions. I know Vic wasn’t discussing him today but he has shared that opinion in the past and it’s obviously got some merit

I agree with you Tojo. You’ve always been a pretty on the ball individual. Some are concerned that 72 won’t recover from his recent concussions. I know Vic wasn’t discussing him today but he has shared that opinion in the past and it’s obviously got some merit
- WSCTeton17

I think he'll recover from his concussions. Look what he did in worlds. Imo Sullivan needs to find a home for him and quit jumping him all around.

Hornqvist is good and he is a solid player. The issue is more with his contract and his production value to the team.

Phil’s poor analytics are offset by elite point production (playmaking ability and finishing ability), which is rare and having production like that can overcome poor analytics when your potting points the way he does.

I get that Phil’s underlying numbers aren’t that great but he’s a +129 goal differential at all strengths because of his elite PP abilities and that outweighs his poor analytics. If he had poor analytics and was dog poop on the power play then I’m with you. Ship him out.
- j.boyd919

I’m ok with Vic’s POV that Hornqvist might not be the same after his concussions but I’m leaning more towards him bouncing back. I think if we were to get Malkin a solid LW (Zucker, Nyquist, maybe it’s McCann if Ferland plays with Sid) then that should help 72. Who knows, maybe this is the year Simon comes out flying and staples himself to the top 6. It’s happened to Rust in the past

Darren Dreger just reported that he expects Marner’s agent to meet with teams that want to offer sheet him ahead of 7/1. This would provide them verification that Marner would actually sign the offer sheet, which would need to include specific contract details such as NTC and signing bonuses. The times they are a changin

I think he'll recover from his concussions. Look what he did in worlds. Imo Sullivan needs to find a home for him and quit jumping him all around.
- nateca44

I think he’ll recover from his existing ones but with his style of play and how dirty the league is the risk of him getting more and becoming more derpy like me is a concern. I don’t think it matters at this point because GMJR seems to want to keep him, but if we were able to trade him for say a 2nd and a 4th or as a package for Subban or something I’d be ok with. Moving out salary is fine as long as we don’t use that space on the next JJ

I don't really think Phil's back checking (not a skill, but effort like others have said) is a problem. He does back check.

It's when he's in his own zone that the effort is lacking. He does all he can to avoid contact and if that means letting the other player have the puck so be it.

If the insubordination issues that are being reported are true, that is a much bigger problem than any of Phil's defensive deficiencies.

I’m ok with Vic’s POV that Hornqvist might not be the same after his concussions but I’m leaning more towards him bouncing back. I think if we were to get Malkin a solid LW (Zucker, Nyquist, maybe it’s McCann if Ferland plays with Sid) then that should help 72. Who knows, maybe this is the year Simon comes out flying and staples himself to the top 6. It’s happened to Rust in the past
- WSCTeton17

If Ferland plays with Sid? Yuck. I don’t want to touch that at all. I am not interested inn ferland.

Darren Dreger just reported that he expects Marner’s agent to meet with teams that want to offer sheet him ahead of 7/1. This would provide them verification that Marner would actually sign the offer sheet, which would need to include specific contract details such as NTC and signing bonuses. The times they are a changin
- WSCTeton17

Imagine the Leafs lose him...

If Ferland plays with Sid? Yuck. I don’t want to touch that at all. I am not interested inn ferland.
- j.boyd919

Agreed. I think that's one they need to stay far away from.