So, just curious - how many of the Hawk D prospects are reviewed by scouts as being good at....actual defense?
- Return of the Roar

Beaudin and Jokiharju could make a good pairing maybe sooner than we imagined

And next spring Mitchell with Carlsson

So, just curious - how many of the Hawk D prospects are reviewed by scouts as being good at....actual defense?
- Return of the Roar

I find it interesting that the highest ranked D-prospects are all high offense/speed/skill guys. The reports on virtually all of the top ones that I have read are that they are "pretty good", "good enough", "adequate" in their own end. I guess that they just expect that these guys will all be taught to be better defenders.

This is why I normally get a bit more excited about later round D-prospects. They tend to be more defensively minded at the cost of offense... which I would like to see a bit more of.

Beaudin and Jokiharju could make a good pairing maybe sooner than we imagined

And next spring Mitchell with Carlsson
- jhawk59

Based upon.....?

I find it interesting that the highest ranked D-prospects are all high offense/speed/skill guys. The reports on virtually all of the top ones that I have read are that they are "pretty good", "good enough", "adequate" in their own end. I guess that they just expect that these guys will all be taught to be better defenders.

This is why I normally get a bit more excited about later round D-prospects. They tend to be more defensively minded at the cost of offense... which I would like to see a bit more of.
- Chunk

This is what concerns me. The problems are many with the current roster. Lots of holes, but everyone is in agreement that the team defense is atrocious - starting with the D personnel themselves.

How does adding and drafting a bunch of puck movers one after the other aid in the transformation of the defense? Unless SB is doubling down on speed and skill as the only prerequisites.

Better yet, draft a forward who can get/keep it in the O zone and out of the D zone altogether.
- Return of the Roar

If everything is pretty much equal in terms of raw talent and hockey IQ, I take the defenceman every time. There is no generational forward like a Crosby, Malkin or McDavid in this draft, so a Dman with the potential to play 25 minutes per night and lead the offence from the back end is quite attractive.

And take a look at the Maple Leafs and Canucks - both have some very nice forwards that they drafted and developed. But neither team can win anything because their team talent is all up front and grossly lacking on the blueline.
If the Hawks end up with too many good defenceman a couple years from now that is any easy problem to fix.

This is what concerns me. The problems are many with the current roster. Lots of holes, but everyone is in agreement that the team defense is atrocious - starting with the D personnel themselves.

How does adding and drafting a bunch of puck movers one after the other aid in the transformation of the defense? Unless SB is doubling down on speed and skill as the only prerequisites.
- Return of the Roar

I know I’m probably in the minority here but, I think the atrocious team defense starts with the forwards not the Dmen.

If everything is pretty much equal in terms of raw talent and hockey IQ, I take the defenceman every time. There is no generational forward like a Crosby, Malkin or McDavid in this draft, so a Dman with the potential to play 25 minutes per night and lead the offence from the back end is quite attractive.

And take a look at the Maple Leafs and Canucks - both have some very nice forwards that they drafted and developed. But neither team can win anything because their team talent is all up front and grossly lacking on the blueline.
If the Hawks end up with too many good defenceman a couple years from now that is any easy problem to fix.
- RickJ

But the heart of the issue is which of the Hawk D prospects actually have any professional scouting commentary that speaks to their ability to play DEFENSE?

Some are anointing Boqvist and Byram as the next 2/7 for crying out loud. Neither have seen a game on AHL ice let alone NHL, and neither can play actual defense.

I know I’m probably in the minority here but, I think the atrocious team defense starts with the forwards not the Dmen.
- walleyeb1

I tend to agree with this as well, and why I advocate drafting Cozens. The D pipeline might be full of "potential", but the forward depth is scary thin.

This is what concerns me. The problems are many with the current roster. Lots of holes, but everyone is in agreement that the team defense is atrocious - starting with the D personnel themselves.

How does adding and drafting a bunch of puck movers one after the other aid in the transformation of the defense? Unless SB is doubling down on speed and skill as the only prerequisites.
- Return of the Roar

I think we have a tendency to focus on the early picks which always will be those D with skill and puck moving/join the rush focus. The round later is where I think the team is more focused on the less flashy picks that end up being those stay at home types who have limited offensive upside. I think the idea is some of those skill guys will be well rounded enough to be solid 2 way types (Joki/Beaudin for example), while others (Boqvist) may be more run and gun offense first to pair with them. Then we have the guys drafted for physical play or defensive accumen like the Dahlstrom/Carlssons/Hillman/Gilbert types.

If everything is pretty much equal in terms of raw talent and hockey IQ, I take the defenceman every time. There is no generational forward like a Crosby, Malkin or McDavid in this draft, so a Dman with the potential to play 25 minutes per night and lead the offence from the back end is quite attractive.

And take a look at the Maple Leafs and Canucks - both have some very nice forwards that they drafted and developed. But neither team can win anything because their team talent is all up front and grossly lacking on the blueline.
If the Hawks end up with too many good defenceman a couple years from now that is any easy problem to fix.
- RickJ

Agreed Rick. So long as the defenseman is considered the Best available or tied as best available you have to go that route. In fact if there were two generational prospects a forward and a defenseman of equal projected ability I'd take the defenseman.

From what I have seen and read about him, I think Byram is the guy.

I know I’m probably in the minority here but, I think the atrocious team defense starts with the forwards not the Dmen.
- walleyeb1

I really agree. Been pushing that statement myself for a long time. The D have some holes but they play a lot better when the forwards are supporting them with good pressure and coverage.

Based upon.....?
- Return of the Roar

Jokiharju was stated to have very good defensive analytics across most/all of his partners last year. Say what you will about statistics, but as a 19 year old that bodes very well for his defensive prowess overall. He is already better at his age that Forsling is now.

I've read two reports on Beaudin that state that he has the defensive IQ, he just needs to work on the actual physical ability. Definitely more skill based than brute strength (which I can agree we need a bit more of on the back end), but at least the defensive acumen is there.

By no means is this a complete picture of the two, but at least there are "reputable" people with high remarks of them.

I think rangers take bryam at 2 and Hughes or Kappo drops to the hawks. Bryam Cozens( my pick) or turcotte hughes kappo no matter what hawks are getting a very good player for years to come.

This is what concerns me. The problems are many with the current roster. Lots of holes, but everyone is in agreement that the team defense is atrocious - starting with the D personnel themselves.

How does adding and drafting a bunch of puck movers one after the other aid in the transformation of the defense? Unless SB is doubling down on speed and skill as the only prerequisites.
- Return of the Roar

Again, consider the source, but Bowman is actually on record saying that it is not realistic to expect every one of these defensemen to all be playing on the Hawks. I am assuming that at least one if not two will be moved at some point for improvements (not necessarily this year).

Jokiharju was stated to have very good defensive analytics across most/all of his partners last year. Say what you will about statistics, but as a 19 year old that bodes very well for his defensive prowess overall. He is already better at his age that Forsling is now.

I've read two reports on Beaudin that state that he has the defensive IQ, he just needs to work on the actual physical ability. Definitely more skill based than brute strength (which I can agree we need a bit more of on the back end), but at least the defensive acumen is there.

By no means is this a complete picture of the two, but at least there are "reputable" people with high remarks of them.
- Chunk

So what you are saying is 30 games of NHL analytics on a 19 year old shows some potential at some point, and Beaudin can't physically git er dun defensively yet (or maybe ever?) Who knows....

Opposing power forwards will eat these guys up every time. Not tough enough.

I think rangers take bryam at 2 and Hughes or Kappo drops to the hawks. Bryam Cozens( my pick) or turcotte hughes kappo no matter what hawks are getting a very good player for years to come.
- Scott1977

Hey Scott, why do you think the Rangers go Byram? I admittedly don't know anything about their prospect pool, but they need help all over their NHL roster. I don't see why they would pass on one of the consensus top two players in the draft (unless we have been lied to for the past month and a half).

So what you are saying is 30 games of NHL analytics on a 19 year old shows some potential at some point, and Beaudin can't physically git er dun defensively yet (or maybe ever?) Who knows....

Opposing power forwards will eat these guys up every time. Not tough enough.
- Return of the Roar

Well in fairness, the original comment said that the Jokiharju-Beaudin pairing COULD be a good one in the near future. All I am saying is that there are positive signs toward that end.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big "believe it when I see it" guy as well. I just don't think you can discount these players before they show you they don't belong. They are both currently 19 years old (both will be 20 by the time the season starts).

But the heart of the issue is which of the Hawk D prospects actually have any professional scouting commentary that speaks to their ability to play DEFENSE?

Some are anointing Boqvist and Byram as the next 2/7 for crying out loud. Neither have seen a game on AHL ice let alone NHL, and neither can play actual defense.
- Return of the Roar

When drafting 18 year olds NHL teams aren't looking so closely at the ability to defend because that can be taught and developed in their system at the minor league level. They are looking at skating, passing and puck handling ability, size and their transition game capabilities. The best way to play defence is to have the puck and move it out of the defensive zone fast. To name 2, the Hawks developed Keith and Buff that way after they drafted them.

But if you like defensive defenceman with limited offensive skills, draft those guys in later rounds and see what happens in development in the AHL - guys like Justin Hill, Viktor Svedburg and others. They could play defence but had no other NHL attributes. Others turn into the likes of Hammer, a guy they should have never traded for a player like Murphy who has only mediocre overall skills.

Corey Pronman from The Athletic has this to say about the dman:

"Byram is my top ranked defenseman in this draft class. He was often asked to play 30 minutes a game for the Giants, showing immense offensive potential, including leading the WHL playoffs in scoring. Byram is a high-end skater with the ability to lead a rush and close gaps. He's got quick-twitch feet and a great first step. He's very active with his skating, as I often see him join rushes and lead ones, and he can activate well off the blueline. He's very skilled."

For once, it would be nice if a draft site described how well a defenseman defends.

85 words, and not 1 about his defensive prowess.
- scottak

Most places, like the Athletic, usually have a list with small paragraph description and then separate articles with deeper dives into players. For Pronman's list, just click on his name in the same article that the paragraph from which you quoted. It's the same for his top 10/11 ranked prospects and will continue putting them out for other players as time goes on before the draft.

To help, here is the article on Byram, which has a section with videos dedicated to defensive play: https://theathletic.com/9...-quick-ascent-to-the-nhl/

Hey Scott, why do you think the Rangers go Byram? I admittedly don't know anything about their prospect pool, but they need help all over their NHL roster. I don't see why they would pass on one of the consensus top two players in the draft (unless we have been lied to for the past month and a half).
- Chunk

One they do not have any really good d prospect s in their system and need a dynamic top pair defense man unless they sign one or trade for one i see the rangers drafting bryam imo. I also think ny jersey takes kappo since some reports out of jersey are hall wants out if those reports are true. So drafting kappo to replace hall would make sense.

But the heart of the issue is which of the Hawk D prospects actually have any professional scouting commentary that speaks to their ability to play DEFENSE?

Some are anointing Boqvist and Byram as the next 2/7 for crying out loud. Neither have seen a game on AHL ice let alone NHL, and neither can play actual defense.
- Return of the Roar

That is simply not true. Both of them play defense pretty well and got better as the season went on. It's fair to say they are a work in progress on the defensive side far more than on the offensive side where both of them are already exceptional.

I watched a couple London games this season - one early in the season and the other a playoff game and the improvement in the d-zone was very noticeable. He is very much a Swedish d-man in that he plays positional and stick check defense more so than the North American "take the body" style - but he will be at least adequate and with additional improvement/experience and strength added to he (still) 18 year old body he could be better than adequate defensively to go along with his elite offensive skill.

I've seen 3 or 4 youtube "every shift" videos of Byram and the progress made through the season is evident with Byram too. One of the "every shift" videos was from a game on September 30th and he was actually playing the right side and he lost position a lot. Even though he recovered quickly it was still noticeable that he wasn't in the right position all the time. Then another "every shift" youtube from later in the season and a playoff game should much better positioning - less mistakes. He also played on the left side in all the games I saw after that early season game. The point is he played pretty good defense with fewer mistakes as the season went on.

There's no denying both Boqvist and Byram will hang their hats on their offensive game but both will be at least good enough defensively to be star players because of their offense and that will be a very good thing for the Hawks.

Look at the teams who have won the cup in recent years, what do they all have in common? They have top 2 way centers.

2008 Datsyuk
2009 Crosby
2010 Toews
2011 Bergeron
2012 Kopitar
2013 Toews
2014 Kopitar
2015 Toews
2016 Crosby
2017 Crosby
2018 Backstrom

All of these centers get selke votes in most years. All this defense wins championships starts with the most important part of the game, the center ice position. Win the draw, control the puck and the pace. Don't have the puck, chase it down and take it back. This is what all these type of players do for you and can shut down other teams best players. The Preds and Blues have had great defensive teams in previous years and what has that led to? And what have those teams lacked? Now the Blues add Ryan O'Reilly and they're in the cup final, against Patrice Bergeron of course. Draft the best skilled 2 way center you can find and look for your next Hjalmarsson type d man. You don't need him to score you need him to defend. Plenty of the other d men we have drafted have the offensive capabilities, but finding someone to sellout defensively would be great.

One they do not have any really good d prospect s in their system and need a dynamic top pair defense man unless they sign one or trade for one i see the rangers drafting bryam imo. I also think ny jersey takes kappo since some reports out of jersey are hall wants out if those reports are true. So drafting kappo to replace hall would make sense.
- Scott1977

I think we’re experiencing some technical difficulties!

Most places, like the Athletic, usually have a list with small paragraph description and then separate articles with deeper dives into players. For Pronman's list, just click on his name in the same article that the paragraph from which you quoted. It's the same for his top 10/11 ranked prospects and will continue putting them out for other players as time goes on before the draft.

To help, here is the article on Byram, which has a section with videos dedicated to defensive play: https://theathletic.com/9...-quick-ascent-to-the-nhl/
- L_B_R

Sounds like the Steph Curry of hockey.

One they do not have any really good d prospect s in their system and need a dynamic top pair defense man unless they sign one or trade for one i see the rangers drafting bryam imo. I also think ny jersey takes kappo since some reports out of jersey are hall wants out if those reports are true. So drafting kappo to replace hall would make sense.
- Scott1977

They do have some good d-prospects, just not many. The Rangers have also been drafting a (frank) ton of d-men over the last several years. They drafted 14 in the last 4 drafts - 6 in just 2019, including 2 in the 1st round.

For good prospects, K'Andre Miller is in their system, who is a stud in the making imo. and they acquired Adam Fox, who has top pair potential. I know many were hoping the former would still be around last year's draft when the Hawks picked late. Nils Lundvist, Hajek and Rykov are also possible 2nd pair guys who skew more defensively focused - they're just farther out.

They also already have Skjei, Pionk, and Deangelo on the team so I'm not totally sure they're that in need of d-men so much so that they'll skip over the potential of Kakko. Because even though they have more high quality forward prospects, none come close to Kakko.