Not with Kessel
We’d have him for 3 years
Can’t imagime you be expecting much from him at 35+ to keep him after the 3 years are up
So again...
if he isn’t gonna help us win a Cup in 3years,
why spend the assets???
U made it very clear with StL that coming close doesn’t matter & it’s all or nothing - jdfitz77
We would be getting the player at a discount. Tough to find an 82 point player for $6.9M while only giving up a depth d-man and pick 30/31 (if what Homie says is true). The Sabres would still have a strong nucleus of talent developing ready to take his spot after the 3 years is up as well. The move helps us win now, drafting and developing helps us win from now on.
In the 80-ish games from when Eichel was a rookie, and the two 20 some odd games he was hurt, where ROR was the undisputed #1 guy, he didn’t play like he did
Or produce I should say, like he has in STL
He had Reinhart as his most common line-mate last year, Okposo before the injuries.
He didn’t have to play with Larsson or Sobotka etc.
I think his production dips, I’m almost positive it will because his on ice shooting % (which is everyone on the ice with him, not just him) was higher than it’s ever been.
But he also never had a season defensively like he did.
I just don’t see how he doesn’t share any responsibility for that - sbroads24
Sam spent most of his time with Jack, didn’t he?
To my recollection, he played with Okposo a lot, who most have disliked- even before the injuries
And LW was a rotation of a “dumb as rocks Kane” and a bunch of bottom6 guys playing higher than they should’ve been
He extraordinary defensive zone starts also had to wear him down
And our defense sucked so bad that we couldn’t get the puck up ice
What happened with StLouis is exactly what i said would happen
He wouldn’t be stuck in the defensive zone as much, and he’d have better linemates
It’s no surprise at all that he’s done much better this year
I mean...
why is it that we need to find a star to play with Jack to see his potential...
but the same wasn’t said for ROR?
Even if u wanna point to him playing with Sam a bit... that’s the same Sam that you’ve been trashing until this season... right???
To my recollection, he played with Okposo a lot, who most have disliked- even before the injuries
And LW was a rotation of a “dumb as rocks Kane” and a bunch of bottom6 guys playing higher than they should’ve been
He extraordinary defensive zone starts also had to wear him down
And our defense sucked so bad that we couldn’t get the puck up ice
What happened with StLouis is exactly what i said would happen
He wouldn’t be stuck in the defensive zone as much, and he’d have better linemates
It’s no surprise at all that he’s done much better this year
I mean...
why is it that we need to find a star to play with Jack to see his potential...
but the same wasn’t said for ROR?
Even if u wanna point to him playing with Sam a bit... that’s the same Sam that you’ve been trashing until this season... right??? - jdfitz77
Jack had a very strong season, I would not say Sam or Jeff are elite by any means, but both are very good hockey players.
We would be getting the player at a discount. Tough to find an 82 point player for $6.9M while only giving up a depth d-man and pick 30/31 (if what Homie says is true). The Sabres would still have a strong nucleus of talent developing ready to take his spot after the 3 years is up as well. The move helps us win now, drafting and developing helps us win from now on. - Pegullaville
But you think pick 30/31 can be a key player for us going forward
Whereas we’d only have Kessel for 3years of not winning the Cup
But you think pick 30/31 can be a key player for us going forward
Whereas we’d only have Kessel for 3years of not winning the Cup - jdfitz77
I'd rather pry Ehlers out of Winnipeg or Trocheck out of FLA if we are going to nitpick but the price wouldn't be McCabe and pick 31. Kessel's production outweighs the contract and the price to acquire him if that is indeed the trade proposal.
Jack had a very strong season, I would not say Sam or Jeff are elite by any means, but both are very good hockey players. - Pegullaville
And yet YOU still want a “star” to play with Jack...
right?
But a combo of lesser players was ok for ROR
All I’ve been trying to say all along is that O’Reilly could’ve been a guy we continued to build around
And he’s proving in StL that he can be a key factor in a legit Cup Contender
Don’t we want a bunch of players like that?
We need to keep those kind of players
Not trade them, or let them walk (Skinner)
Regardless...
i only brought him up bc you’re so convinced that he’s gonna fall off the cliff as a 29 year old,
but wanna sign Hall (who i agree is great) to a deal that starts at 29
And bc u keep railing on the Skinner deal bc you’re worried about the last 3-4 years of him being an anchor, but then say he can be productive in his mid-late 30s
Well... which is it?
Bc i can’t decipher your flip flopping contradictions
I'd rather pry Ehlers out of Winnipeg or Trocheck out of FLA if we are going to nitpick but the price wouldn't be McCabe and pick 31. Kessel's production outweighs the contract and the price to acquire him if that is indeed the trade proposal. - Pegullaville
Of course it does
But if he doesn’t get us to the Cup, then it’s just as much a failure of a move as StL getting ROR if they don’t end up winning it
Unless u can explain the double standard,
it makes more sense to use pick 30/31 on a guy that will be here when we are “ready to compete”
That’s why you’ve said we needed to move ROR
Bc he won’t help us win a Cup
So why move assets for another guy who won’t?
Makes no sense according to your previous statements
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
Jun 12 @ 12:11 AM ET
Sam spent most of his time with Jack, didn’t he?
To my recollection, he played with Okposo a lot, who most have disliked- even before the injuries
And LW was a rotation of a “dumb as rocks Kane” and a bunch of bottom6 guys playing higher than they should’ve been
He extraordinary defensive zone starts also had to wear him down
And our defense sucked so bad that we couldn’t get the puck up ice
What happened with StLouis is exactly what i said would happen
He wouldn’t be stuck in the defensive zone as much, and he’d have better linemates
It’s no surprise at all that he’s done much better this year
I mean...
why is it that we need to find a star to play with Jack to see his potential...
but the same wasn’t said for ROR?
Even if u wanna point to him playing with Sam a bit... that’s the same Sam that you’ve been trashing until this season... right??? - jdfitz77
He was 31st among centers in O zone starts this season in STL
12th in D zone starts
In 2017-18 in Buffalo
He was 11th in O zone starts
1st in D zone starts
He had more offensive starts in Buffalo last year
If you wanna credit his increased production to Tarasenko then that makes sense
And yet YOU still want a “star” to play with Jack...
right?
But a combo of lesser players was ok for ROR
All I’ve been trying to say all along is that O’Reilly could’ve been a guy we continued to build around
And he’s proving in StL that he can be a key factor in a legit Cup Contender
Don’t we want a bunch of players like that?
We need to keep those kind of players
Not trade them, or let them walk (Skinner)
Regardless...
i only brought him up bc you’re so convinced that he’s gonna fall off the cliff as a 29 year old,
but wanna sign Hall (who i agree is great) to a deal that starts at 29
And bc u keep railing on the Skinner deal bc you’re worried about the last 3-4 years of him being an anchor, but then say he can be productive in his mid-late 30s
Well... which is it?
Bc i can’t decipher your flip flopping contradictions - jdfitz77
Hall is an exception to the rule. I don't see how comparing Skinner and Hall make sense. ROR is a very good hockey player who is now in a perfect situation. By the time the Sabres have vezina goaltending, two olympic gold medalist blueliners, and the depth scoring that the Blues have, ROR would not be the same player he was this year.
Hall is an exception to the rule. I don't see how comparing Skinner and Hall make sense. ROR is a very good hockey player who is now in a perfect situation. By the time the Sabres have vezina goaltending, two olympic gold medalist blueliners, and the depth scoring that the Blues have, ROR would not be the same player he was this year. - Pegullaville
Well if we aren’t gonna have all that in the next 3years... then we shouldn’t waste assets on Kessel
And I’m comparing Skinner & Hall bc of the age thing
Like i said before
You seem to arbitrarily choose who will drop off at 1 age & ignore it for others
But if he doesn’t get us to the Cup, then it’s just as much a failure of a move as StL getting ROR if they don’t end up winning it
Unless u can explain the double standard,
it makes more sense to use pick 30/31 on a guy that will be here when we are “ready to compete”
That’s why you’ve said we needed to move ROR
Bc he won’t help us win a Cup
So why move assets for another guy who won’t?
Makes no sense according to your previous statements - jdfitz77
I would not mind at all if we kept pick 30/31, wouldn't mind it either if they moved it in the right deal. Phil Kessel is a really good hockey player and he would be a good edition to the team. ROR's season was as much an aberration as Skinner scoring 40 this year. Both players were in perfect situations on their respective teams.
I would not mind at all if we kept pick 30/31, wouldn't mind it either if they moved it in the right deal. Phil Kessel is a really good hockey player and he would be a good edition to the team. ROR's season was as much an aberration as Skinner scoring 40 this year. Both players were in perfect situations on their respective teams. - Pegullaville
But how is “the right deal” a guy that won’t help us win the Cup?
Or does “all or nothing” only apply to StL bc you’re trying to constantly dog ROR?
If you polled 31 NHL GM's how many would take Skinner over Hall ?
I'd have my money on Hall earning every penny of his next deal over Skinner being worth every penny of his. - Pegullaville
Right...
Bc Skinner will drop off at 31, but Hall will be great till 35?
Of course Hall is better
But how to u pick & choose when these different players will have their drop off ?
And u still think Skinner drops off at 31?
Or will he be productive into his mid-late30s?
You’ve said both...
so I’m wondering what you actually think???
But how is “the right deal” a guy that won’t help us win the Cup?
Or does “all or nothing” only apply to StL bc you’re trying to constantly dog ROR? - jdfitz77
You are comparing a veteran laden Blues team to a Sabres team whose corner stones are 22 and 19 years old ? The Blues won't have too many kicks at the can after this year unless they can retool on the fly which will be very hard to do.
I would not mind at all if we kept pick 30/31, wouldn't mind it either if they moved it in the right deal. Phil Kessel is a really good hockey player and he would be a good edition to the team. ROR's season was as much an aberration as Skinner scoring 40 this year. Both players were in perfect situations on their respective teams. - Pegullaville
You are comparing a veteran laden Blues team to a Sabres team whose corner stones are 22 and 19 years old ? The Blues won't have too many kicks at the can after this year unless they can retool on the fly which will be very hard to do. - Pegullaville
Ok... but if our run at it happens AFTER Kessel,
then what’s the point of getting him?
It’s the same as your argument for moving ROR
Right...
Bc Skinner will drop off at 31, but Hall will be great till 35?
Of course Hall is better
But how to u pick & choose when these different players will have their drop off ?
And u still think Skinner drops off at 31?
Or will he be productive into his mid-late30s?
You’ve said both...
so I’m wondering what you actually think??? - jdfitz77
It depends on what you consider production to be. Skinner will produce somewhere in the 40-50 point range the final 3 years of that deal. For $9M anything less then 35+ goals and 70+ points is a faliure in my eyes.
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
Jun 12 @ 12:40 AM ET
It depends on what you consider production to be. Skinner will produce somewhere in the 40-50 point range the final 3 years of that deal. For $9M anything less then 35+ goals and 70+ points is a faliure in my eyes. - Pegullaville
But 9 mil in 5 years won’t be 9 mil today.
He will still be able to score goals unless his health is the issue
It depends on what you consider production to be. Skinner will produce somewhere in the 40-50 point range the final 3 years of that deal. For $9M anything less then 35+ goals and 70+ points is a faliure in my eyes. - Pegullaville
Ok...
so as a 32year old, Skinner’s production will drop off to the point we regret the 9mil
Thanks for explaining. Now i get what u meant
When does Hall drop off?
And what numbers does he need to keep up to maintain the 11-12mil Cap Hit that he’s gonna have?
Ok... but if our run at it happens AFTER Kessel,
then what’s the point of getting him?
It’s the same as your argument for moving ROR - jdfitz77
If we were going to move ROR for assets it had to be done before his play started to decline. Its easy to look at his production this year and say that we could have gotten more for him if we did it this offseason but how do we know that ?
The goal, or at least the hope, is for Mitts to be the long term 2C. By moving ROR we should have been able to replenish the assets that Murray wasted in order to build a team around Eichel, Dahlin, Mitts, Sam. Im also of the belief that it would not have been possible to have ROR at $7.5M and Skinner at $9M going forward unless your preference was to move Reinhart or spend next to nothing on the backend and in goal.
Berglund was supposed to be a middle 6 role player, Sobotka was supposed to be a bottom 6 contributor. Those obviously flamed out. Tage still has time and hopefully we can package the Blues 2021 2nd rounder to get us something useful or hit on the pick itself. Moving ROR to me is still the right move if you think of the long-term vision of the team, its just a shame that the return in that trade amounted to hot garbage.
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
Jun 12 @ 12:59 AM ET
If we were going to move ROR for assets it had to be done before his play started to decline. Its easy to look at his production this year and say that we could have gotten more for him if we did it this offseason but how do we know that ?
The goal, or at least the hope, is for Mitts to be the long term 2C. By moving ROR we should have been able to replenish the assets that Murray wasted in order to build a team around Eichel, Dahlin, Mitts, Sam. Im also of the belief that it would not have been possible to have ROR at $7.5M and Skinner at $9M going forward unless your preference was to move Reinhart or spend next to nothing on the backend and in goal.
Berglund was supposed to be a middle 6 role player, Sobotka was supposed to be a bottom 6 contributor. Those obviously flamed out. Tage still has time and hopefully we can package the Blues 2021 2nd rounder to get us something useful or hit on the pick itself. Moving ROR to me is still the right move if you think of the long-term vision of the team, its just a shame that the return in that trade amounted to hot garbage. - Pegullaville
I’m disappointed in the first being late.
Other than that it was fine.
This move was about clearing long term space and basically saying we want a guy in Skinner here long term more than we do ROR.
It was never about 2018-19. Which is why it won’t bother me if/when they win tomorrow
It wasn’t going to be us. Now if next year or beyond they did and we’re still spinning our wheels it’s another story
