So if they sign Hayes for 6 years at 6million and this year the team plays well and Patrick breaks out because he gets more favorable matchups, that wasn't worth it?
- J35Bacher

Why does Patrick need more favorable match ups? My favorite two way line last season was Patrick, Simmonds and Laughton. Not the most talented line but prior to Simmonds’ trade, I thought they were the hardest working.

Are we really still judging people by where they were taken in the draft at Draft+2?
- Tomahawk

I am pretty sure Frost struggled last year at training camp.

If he was so advanced he would have been with the Flyers.

Even now his game will need refining as the pace of play will be much different.

Maybe he surprises at camp. Maybe he does make the team. I just am not couting on him filling a big role right away.

playing devils advocate he sees patrick here and all of 20 years old. maybe he doesn't like that scenario either.
- daryl stanley

Agree.

Hayes ain't gonna block the development of young guys by taking tough defensive assignments.

And if you think he's gonna block their development by playing PK minutes, we need a successful PK more than we need to forcefeed kids PK minutes for their long term development

Why does Patrick need more favorable match ups? My favorite two way line last season was Patrick, Simmonds and Laughton. Not the most talented line but prior to Simmonds’ trade, I thought they were the hardest working.
- SuperSchennBros

Because I want to see more offensive production from him.

Also signing Hayes almost assures Giroux stays on the wing where I think they prefer to keep him. last year he had to move to center because of the need and patrick struggling.

I am pretty sure Frost struggled last year at training camp.

If he was so advanced he would have been with the Flyers.
- J35Bacher

Are we talking about Frost today? Or Frost from 12-mos ago? I can't keep up.

Are we talking about Frost today? Or Frost from 12-mos ago? I can't keep up.
- Tomahawk

Well I am trying to figure out how you know Frost will be fine against NHL competition. That was the only time I could see him against it.

What has Frost done that makes you think he can step right in and contribute to a team that has playoff aspirations.

Not sure you actually watched him. He wasn't dancing and dangling around like a Drouin or Schremp.

He was playing pretty much a pro game offensively. He doesn't keep the puck on his stick for very long. He passes and shoots quickly. He doesn't stay on the perimeter. Even on breakaways, he's not doing a bunch of dumb poop, just making his move and roofing it.
- Tomahawk

I probably worded that bad, didn't mean he was out there doing toe drags, but he would turn it on and split two D out of nowhere. Things will be different in the pros, I think he will be good, but will need time to find his game. Especially as a smaller guy, he's pretty light.

Well I am trying to figure out how you know Frost will be fine against NHL competition. That was the only time I could see him against it.

What has Frost done that makes you think he can step right in and contribute to a team that has playoff aspirations.
- J35Bacher

Already told you, he plays a mature pro-style offensive game. He doesn't rely on the kind of hot boy poop that needs to be trained out of most junior scorers.

Of course Patrick was more NHL-ready at the draft. Frost was like 5-10 160 or whatever. He's matured, he's taken input from the Flyers.

It's a different ballgame now.

Well I am trying to figure out how you know Frost will be fine against NHL competition. That was the only time I could see him against it.

What has Frost done that makes you think he can step right in and contribute to a team that has playoff aspirations.
- J35Bacher

If I'm the Flyers I am planning the roster as if Frost and Farabee do Not make the team.

I think the reality of it is that neither do and they spend the year in the AHL. And the season after that they come in ready to take the next step.

Already told you, he plays a mature pro-style offensive game. He doesn't rely on the kind of hot boy poop that needs to be trained out of most junior scorers.

Of course Patrick was more NHL-ready at the draft. Frost was like 5-10 160 or whatever. He's matured, he's taken input from the Flyers.

It's a different ballgame now.
- Tomahawk

If he makes the team that can only be a good thing as I believe the team wont allow that unless he is absolutely ready.

Already told you, he plays a mature pro-style offensive game. He doesn't rely on the kind of hot boy poop that needs to be trained out of most junior scorers.

Of course Patrick was more NHL-ready at the draft. Frost was like 5-10 160 or whatever. He's matured, he's taken input from the Flyers.

It's a different ballgame now.
- Tomahawk

And this has nothing to do with pace of play and the physical needs of the NHL.

I am not saying he doesn't have talent. But lots of guys have talent. It will be a totally different game for him just moving to the AHL. Speed of the game mentally will be faster.

He can get by on pure talent at the junior level.

And this has nothing to do with pace of play and the physical needs of the NHL.

I am not saying he doesn't have talent. But lots of guys have talent. It will be a totally different game for him just moving to the AHL. Speed of the game mentally will be faster.

He can get by on pure talent at the junior level.
- J35Bacher

Frost was better than Travis K was in their year before the NHL....and size is now really close as Tomahawk mentioned. If one can do it, it shouldn't be seen as a wild stretch for Frost.

Im not saying its going to happen but Frost has done everything the Flyers asked of him ....put on weight, strength, more 200ft approach and defensive awareness, playing with more pace. It wouldn't shock me if he pushed for a spot.

Idiocy they haven't got into numbers yet with Hayes. You get into numbers of the contract demands as soon as you can, then you know if you have a realistic chance at signing him. If he wants too much, you can deal his rights early enough to try and recoup a 5th you traded for talking to him

See I don't think anyone offers him 7. I know center is a premium but I also think teams are becoming a little smarter.

I mean I tried to look at teams, who out there could really offer him 7 and give him the role he would get in Philly(2nd line minutes, PK, probably 2nd unit PP)

If you see one tell me because i drew a blank at where he could really get 7 over 6 years.
- J35Bacher

off the top of my head, the devils maybe between Hischier and Hughes, Hughes could feast on 3rd line competition with some competent wingers, unless the devils wish to spend somewhere else.

maybe the avalanche? behind their top line, they could use a second line center who is responsible defensively but could also chip in here and there. they do need to sign Rantanen and will need to sign Barrie next year, but they have plenty of space.

and columbus, if they lose Duchene, Hayes is the next rated center on the market and they will have space at center. if hayes wants to go there though is a whole different story.

Frost was better than Travis K was in their year before the NHL....and size is now really close as Tomahawk mentioned. If one can do it, it shouldn't be seen as a wild stretch for Frost.

Im not saying its going to happen but Frost has done everything the Flyers asked of him ....put on weight, strength, more 200ft approach and defensive awareness, playing with more pace. It wouldn't shock me if he pushed for a spot.
- juiced

TK plays and played with 10x the physicality Frost does, two totally different players.

TK plays and played with 10x the physicality Frost does, two totally different players.
- ClaudeFather

Absolutely....but Travis showed enough skill to get into the top 9 and mostly the top 6. If it was just about physicality he'd be a 4th liner. He didnt make the team as a Hartman....he made the team to add scoring and speed.

Because I want to see more offensive production from him.

Also signing Hayes almost assures Giroux stays on the wing where I think they prefer to keep him. last year he had to move to center because of the need and patrick struggling.
- J35Bacher

I don’t think Giroux moving to center has much, if anything to do with Patrick. In fact, I believe Couturier getting hurt forces the move and then we won that game, so we kept Giroux there. Laughton shifted between center and wing last season as well.

We should baby Patrick with favorable match ups for that kid to generate offense.

Absolutely....but Travis showed enough skill to get into the top 9 and mostly the top 6. If it was just about physicality he'd be a 4th liner. He didnt make the team as a Hartman....he made the team to add scoring and speed.
- juiced

TKs game style is constant high pace though while Frost picks his spots. Both have skill but TK was better fit for pro hockey than Frost is, I think he'll need to to figure it out

TKs game style is constant high pace though while Frost picks his spots. Both have skill but TK was better fit for pro hockey than Frost is, I think he'll need to to figure it out
- ClaudeFather

It's possible, but I dont think anyone said he was a lead pipe lock to make the team out of camp. Just that he has a chance to potentially play with the Flyers at some point this coming season.

I honestly don't see how that could in any way be a controversial statement, but I can respect your position if you feel he has holes in his game.

It's possible, but I dont think anyone said he was a lead pipe lock to make the team out of camp. Just that he has a chance to potentially play with the Flyers at some point this coming season.

I honestly don't see how that could in any way be a controversial statement, but I can respect your position if you feel he has holes in his game.
- juiced

I also think the teams forward group is deeper than most years too, add in Hayes, when was our fourth line as good as a Raffl Hartman Laughton combo in the past few years? Impossible for the kid to make it though, no. Personally, i got him starting in the A.

Not saying trade them now, all depends on what is there at 11 and they make a pick.

well it does make sense since they are listening to offers for the 11th. If they get someone they want at 11 they may look to move one of the other 2. Not saying it will happen or advocating it.
- daryl stanley

Good. Because that wont happen. That's poor asset management and fletch should vet lynched for moving either of them right now

Good. Because that wont happen. That's poor asset management and fletch should vet lynched for moving either of them right now
- sILKAsSINASALO

Should he get lynched for moving the 11th overall pick if he does ?

Should he get lynched for moving the 11th overall pick if he does ?
- daryl stanley

if it's in a package for someone like Ehlers then no

And this has nothing to do with pace of play and the physical needs of the NHL.

I am not saying he doesn't have talent. But lots of guys have talent. It will be a totally different game for him just moving to the AHL. Speed of the game mentally will be faster.

He can get by on pure talent at the junior level.
- J35Bacher

Keeping up with the pace of play is a hockey IQ thing. Morgan Frost's biggest plus has always been that he could think the game way above the level of his peers.

As far as physical needs, he's bulked up a lot, and worked on his defensive game this past season. Like the other guy said, he's there to score, but he's also not gonna be a complete void in the defensive zone.

He's more polished than G was coming out of junior. G had more upside overall probably, but Frost isn't gonna be a guy that's gonna fall behind on the ice.

Not claiming he's gonna be a lock out of camp. Just that he'll probably be a contributor sooner than later. That's why I don't think you need to go out and grab a UFA for 6-7 years. Just let Patrick keep that seat warm for him.