It’s funny. I actually agree with Vader’s point of view.

I get the other side too, you basically forced yourself into riding the Giroux window with not going full scorched earth at the start of Hextall’s “retool”.

This was a concern brought up by a few, some years back. The disconnect in age between the kids and the talented core that will simply age out.

For all the prospect hype, there is nobody that has been drafted who comes close to providing the talent Giroux has. All eyes remain on Patrick, and Frost I suppose.

You're making my argument for me. I want a team built with the window as wide open as it can be. So you can try and win next year, and the year after and on and on. The way to do that is to not make moves from the perspective of trying to win now and remaining patient. Makes smart moves if it doesn't hinder the future. How many years is Hayes going to sign for. In all likelihood when the Flyers are truly ready, he'll be a high priced role player who has been moved down the lineup. If he going to truly elevate this team?

There is no guarantee with any method. I just know what I think is the best way and gives the team the best odds long term.
- MJL

I want a wide window too. But because you add a Kevin Hayes doesn’t mean that you are closing your window. We aren’t talking signing a guy for 12 mill a year. It’s 6-7 million. When he becomes the role player, what is the cap going to be and what is considered an overpayment?

And is this assuming that the money we saved by not signing anyone is going to a kid that breaks out?

What if Lindblom goes Raffl on the team and scores 6 goals next year? What if Patrick doesn’t progress? What if Sanheim regresses? What if Myers doesn’t belong?

I know that’s a lot of what if’s and that’s the point. To bury your head in the sand and not improve the team is asking for trouble. Because if these guys DO break out this year and you did nothing this offseason because of some “we are not ready mandate” then you may miss your opportunity in this parity driven league or have to pay out the ass at the TDL.

How the flyers ever going to afford to pay all these young dman and players? I mean they all have star potential no?

Again, how are you measuring success. What is the long term goal. If your goal is to just have a competitive team and sell tickets and put people in the stands, then yea, go ahead and get aggressive this off season in the hopes that a perfect storm might happen. If the goal is to build a team that can contend for a decade, remaining patient is the best course of action.
- MJL

There is only one way to measure success....did i win the cup.

Your argument doesn't take into account people have jobs they are paid to do. Like they have to eventually show results. Or a progression at least.

How the flyers ever going to afford to pay all these young dman and players? I mean they all he star potential no?
- daryl stanley

"all he star"?

Making moves to improve, should be more about going after the “right” player, and not just the shiny toy available at the current time.

Especially when we are talking handing out a large contract with 5+years. You are basically making that acquisition a core player.

Hayes does little to swing the needle. Does he improve the club? Sure. Yet all the hope still hangs largely on the development of these young kids. I know continued patience is something that isn’t thought of fondly, and I understand it. However in another year the club has a much more clear idea as to where Patrick/Frost project, and if Hart is indeed this goaltender of the future. More questions are answered about the young defense core.

I don’t see this as a time to be overpaying for guys who have question marks. This isn’t Panarin or Duchene.

I have no problem improving the club, but the bar should be raised above Kevin Hayes.

(Again, the issue with not rushing this thing along also makes sense. The Flyers seemingly failed to acquire somebody on that Giroux tier - a true star- up front during this rebuild. The Flyers still largely go, as Giroux goes. That’s frustrating).

"all he star"?
- mickel25

Spelling error

Spelling error
- daryl stanley

Word

"Great, this story again.

Smaller centers have no problem staying in the middle and producing well into their 30's. See: Crosby, Sakic, Pavelski, Saku Koivu, Plekanec, Andrew Cassels, Marc Savard, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

The trick is to start lightening their load defensively, especially on the PK. The Flyers are still a team that spends too much time in their own zone, so G will be seeing wear and tear no matter if he's at C or LW. Dzone coverage is fluid... the days of the C doing all the heavy lifting are over.

And G lined up at C over 1164 times this past season and 1088 times the season before. It's not like he's strictly doing winger stuff only.



I agree you want to keep JVR on a soft matchup at ES.

TK and Lindblom are LW options, tho. Laughton can play wing on a checking line. Don't forget Rubstov. And Farabee has an outside shot at making the team.



They do.

But they're also the two biggest 'makes their linemates better' types on the team. Stacking them up means you're gonna have more trouble getting L2-L3 to go.

It's not a permanent problem either, since Morgan Frost isn't too far away. Once he cracks the lineup, you can move G back to LW if you want, w/o being hamstrung w/ somebody like Hayes at 6x6, 7x7, or whatever."

So, to be clear here. Your arguments hinge on comparing Centers that are on average more than 10 pounds Girouxs size to Girouxs size.

You associate the wear and tear of a Center and a Left Wing as equivalent.

You advocate moving a young right winger to left wing prompting yet another hole in the lineup to be created (your solutions tend to create a lot of problems)

To replace a player at the level of Giroux at Left Wing you mention a 20 year old with a checkered junior history and 14 games of AHL experience and a 19 year old with 0 professional experience.

Yikes.

Why aren’t you talking about the reasons to try to fill a couple of current roster holes now? The answer is to help the development of our high potential young forwards, defenseman and goalie. It’s to benefit their growth and give them a chance to gain confidence slotted where their individual games are right now. A side effect is that the team can be more competitive, be a playoff team and gain valuable exposure for our homegrown talent.

since the blues won the cup with physical play lets talk about how soft the flyers are and how we're going to fix it

I want a wide window too. But because you add a Kevin Hayes doesn’t mean that you are closing your window. We aren’t talking signing a guy for 12 mill a year. It’s 6-7 million. When he becomes the role player, what is the cap going to be and what is considered an overpayment?


- Flyers1218

Signing players like Hayes and being aggressive to win now is not how you build a team with a wide window. Why do you want to sign a player that half way through his contract will be a role player and moved down the lineup? Why not save that cap space for a move when you really need it. When you really need that one piece to elevate your team in the future? Does Hayes move the bar for this team? If he doesn't, why sign him?

And is this assuming that the money we saved by not signing anyone is going to a kid that breaks out?


- Flyers1218

Better place to spend it. Or to a player they add when the team's future needs are better known and more critical to the overall goal.

What if Lindblom goes Raffl on the team and scores 6 goals next year? What if Patrick doesn’t progress? What if Sanheim regresses? What if Myers doesn’t belong?



- Flyers1218

This team's future is and always will be about the young kids developing. If they don't, then it won't have worked out. What position would you rather be in a with a team that is not good enough? with flexibility, higher draft picks or as a cap strapped team with older players that aren't good enough?

I know that’s a lot of what if’s and that’s the point. To bury your head in the sand and not improve the team is asking for trouble. Because if these guys DO break out this year and you did nothing this offseason because of some “we are not ready mandate” then you may miss your opportunity in this parity driven league or have to pay out the ass at the TDL.
- Flyers1218

Again, I don't know where you're getting the idea that they shouldn't improve the team. Making my argument again for me. When you need that one player to put the finishing touch on the team is when you should pay out the ass! When you should go for it. When that critical need is identified. When the team is there. Are they there now? Doubt it. Is Hayes that player? Doubt it.

Giroux is better on the wing, Giroux prefers playing the wing, Giroux is a year older.
- Feanor

Whatever Giroux needs. Ask management to bring JvR back, JvR gets massive deal, JvR plays second or third line because of where Giroux is comfortable.

since the blues won the cup with physical play lets talk about how soft the flyers are and how we're going to fix it
- 2Real

Move out ghost for starters

There is only one way to measure success....did i win the cup.

Your argument doesn't take into account people have jobs they are paid to do. Like they have to eventually show results. Or a progression at least.
- J35Bacher

You're right. I don't give a poop about who has a job and who they have to answer to. Not my problem. No bearing on forming my opinion on how the Flyers should build their team moving forward.

Making moves to improve, should be more about going after the “right” player, and not just the shiny toy available at the current time.
- flyer_nutter

To be fair, Hayes checks a lot of boxes.

But then again, so did Briere, Streit, Vinny, AMac, Bryzgalov, etc.

Eventually they all ended up being drags on the cap and had to be bought out or buried. Think Streit is the only one who survived, but he was also the most reasonable deal out of the bunch.

Added JvR last summer. Now maybe Hayes and a dman? If they're back to adding a big contract per summer, it's not gonna end well.

Other factors in the deal that you aren't looking at here.
- MJL

What are the factors I’m failing to consider that would not make it a plausible scenario? Ek and his sources would like to know too I guess.

Why aren’t you talking about the reasons to try to fill a couple of current roster holes now? The answer is to help the development of our high potential young forwards, defenseman and goalie. It’s to benefit their growth and give them a chance to gain confidence slotted where their individual games are right now. A side effect is that the team can be more competitive, be a playoff team and gain valuable exposure for our homegrown talent.
- NC Flyers Fan

That is a very good point and really a caveat to my opinion. No doubt adding some veteran players to lighten the load would be good for the young players. There should be some cheaper shorter term options that they can look at instead of long term high cap hit UFA's.

What are the factors I’m failing to consider that would not make it a plausible scenario? Ek and his sources would like to know too I guess.
- Just5

Think about it and get back to me. We've had this conversation before.

To be fair, Hayes checks a lot of boxes.

But then again, so did Briere, Streit, Vinny, AMac, Bryzgalov, etc.

Eventually they all ended up being drags on the cap and had to be bought out or buried. Think Streit is the only one who survived, but he was also the most reasonable deal out of the bunch.

Added JvR last summer. Now maybe Hayes and a dman? If they're back to adding a big contract per summer, it's not gonna end well.
- Tomahawk

A big problem is the grouping of vorobyev, rubstov, and laberge are barely scratching the nhl surface. While still young it would have been hard to believe 2 years ago that neither prospect is set to compete for a 2019-20 roster spot

since the blues won the cup with physical play lets talk about how soft the flyers are and how we're going to fix it
- 2Real

We're going to trade for Ryan Reaves. LOL

Actually it's not silly, it's smart. By your standard, a team should never draft and develop. Always go all out to try and win now. What I have on my side is history. When the age of your players that make up your defense are in your early twenties and your starting goaltender is 20 years old, typically they're not ready to back the team to a cup. I don't know where you're getting this idea that they shouldn't improve the team. It's a question of how they should go about doing that.
- MJL

When did I ever say that you don’t draft and develop? Read again. I said to not improve your team. To stand pat. To make Boyd Gordon your offseason move is not improvement.

Listen, I could sit and debate this for another hour, but I’m not going to. I’ve seen enough teams not improve in the offseason, draft and develop year after year, even with the best player in the world, and still be terrible. I’m personally happy the Flyers are trying to be competitive over the slop from last year.

When did I ever say that you don’t draft and develop? Read again. I said to not improve your team. To stand pat. To make Boyd Gordon your offseason move is not improvement.

Listen, I could sit and debate this for another hour, but I’m not going to. I’ve seen enough teams not improve in the offseason, draft and develop year after year, even with the best player in the world, and still be terrible. I’m personally happy the Flyers are trying to be competitive over the slop from last year.
- Flyers1218

I don't think were on the same page about standing pat or on the many ways there are to improve your team.

So I guess your going to ignore the history of the team you root for and how their approach of trying to win now over a significant period of time didn't work even with the financial advantage they had over other teams. Add in the salary cap and it's a different ball game. Don't have to aggressively sign free agents to be competitive next season.

Making moves to improve, should be more about going after the “right” player, and not just the shiny toy available at the current time.

Especially when we are talking handing out a large contract with 5+years. You are basically making that acquisition a core player.

Hayes does little to swing the needle. Does he improve the club? Sure. Yet all the hope still hangs largely on the development of these young kids. I know continued patience is something that isn’t thought of fondly, and I understand it. However in another year the club has a much more clear idea as to where Patrick/Frost project, and if Hart is indeed this goaltender of the future. More questions are answered about the young defense core.

I don’t see this as a time to be overpaying for guys who have question marks. This isn’t Panarin or Duchene.

I have no problem improving the club, but the bar should be raised above Kevin Hayes.

(Again, the issue with not rushing this thing along also makes sense. The Flyers seemingly failed to acquire somebody on that Giroux tier - a true star- up front during this rebuild. The Flyers still largely go, as Giroux goes. That’s frustrating).
- flyer_nutter

Thank you. We can debate the player, that’s a fair and healthy discussion. But to have the Flyers stand pat and not actively look to improve the team during the offseason until they reach some mystical “ready” position has resulted in the slog the team is currently mired in.

To be fair, Hayes checks a lot of boxes.

But then again, so did Briere, Streit, Vinny, AMac, Bryzgalov, etc.

Eventually they all ended up being drags on the cap and had to be bought out or buried. Think Streit is the only one who survived, but he was also the most reasonable deal out of the bunch.

Added JvR last summer. Now maybe Hayes and a dman? If they're back to adding a big contract per summer, it's not gonna end well.
- Tomahawk

I have no issues giving out deals to players that are worth it. I don’t see this team as being a Hayes away from contention. I have no concerns overpaying for Duchene or Panarin. None. True talent I’ll overpay for any day. Hayes imo is also kind of redundant.

This club needs speed, and players who can handle the puck creatively. Not more 2 way north/South players with average at best skating.

It’s far more likely imo his contract because the next AMac deal. Sometimes the right move, is the one you don’t make. This isn’t going to be a small contract.