It must make you feel good to find one GM more naive than the Dubas choke show.
- spatso

uhh, have you not paid attention to the actions of the Sens GM over the past few years?

Hexy's patient approach was not working. Like I said, when he was hired he had a 5 year plan to become a Cup competitor. Instead the team was in the playoffs one year, out the next. He didn't trust any of the prospects he drafted, so he gave us borderline AHL players in the 3rd and 4th lines and expected it to all come together. We wouldn't have seen Hart. We wouldn't have seen Meyers...or Friedman. We would have gotten another year of MacDonald, Weal, Weiss, Leier, and Gudas.

Eventually you have to kinda listen to your fanbase and the higher ups and say...enough is enough. It's time to make some moves.

Hexy wouldn't do that. He was happy with the status quo. He was happy with Hakstol as his coach.

In Philly....that simply does not work.
- Hckygoalie31

If a GM is doing this then he's already lost.

Seems like a bit of overpayment by the Flyers for Hayes. However I would not be surprised if Hayes has his best seasons over the next 3-4 years and potentially 30+ goals and 70+ points as a 2C. The Flyers are putting strong pieces together with a really good young core.
The Defense looks very strong with a young, large, mobile team (Myers, Sanheim, Provorov, Morin, Zamula) and now excellent veteran pieces that will help lead them for the next few years. Plus more good D still in the system and add to that Broberg or Seider, both potential #1 D-men.

Add to that 3-4 stud young forwards (Farabee, Frost, Ratcliffe & Rubtsov) the next couple years that help stabilize the salary cap issues. They have a ton of secondary prospects that will fill in well in bottom 6 forward rolls over the next several seasons (Allison, Strome, Cates, Laczynski , Vorbyov, Kubel) and bottom pair defense (St.Ivany, Kalynuk, Hogberg, Friedman, Ginning &Wylie)

With Hart in goal they have the makings of a team built to contend for some time. Backups: (Ersson, Ustimenko, Sandstrom).

I still feel they did overpay for Hayes but there was no other #2 centre available on the market with out giving up prospects to get him. This was only 💰 and allowed them to keep the prospects that they have assembled under Hextall.
If they get a good enough offer they may trade Ghost 👻 in the draft (say Vancouver) 1st pick (Prodkozin or Boldy), prospect or another pick next year.

They have had a top prospect pool for several years. I realize that is just potential, but Hextall has a pretty proven record of solid drafting and all the scouts in place during his tenure are still there, Fletch did not change anything there. The Flyers will be set up for success now and the future.
Don’t sleep on the Flyers they are finally set up to be relevant for some time.
-Tommycasino
- Tommycasino

That's what they've been claiming for many many years. But this huge stable of elite dmen they've always claimed they had, has basically amounted to nothing. They're still among the worst in the league defensively. Why should we believe that this new stable of elite dmen prospects is any better than the last? Seems a little like wash, rinse, repeat to me.

Welcome to the new world. Contracts are not coming cheap. Hayes seems like an overpay and to some extent it is, but wait till you see other contracts that get signed in the coming weeks...

Hayes will provide a solid 2C as he some offensive ability to maybe reach 25G and 70P, but he is also a very responsible defensive Centre much like Couterier. He also will be paramount to the P.K. (which is greatly needed) and time on the second PP. He fits as a solid second line centre at least for the next couple years until either Patrick puts it all together or another solid option comes along. If that happens then he becomes one of the best 3C in the league. Either way he is insurance that they have a solid 1-2 or 1-2-3 punch for several more years.
Yes his contract seems high now, but just wait, contracts for solid Centres is not about to go down any time soon.
With the salary cap not going as high as expected there may be a lot of sellers out there. Flyers have some cap space (thanks to Hextall) so now Fletch is taking advantage of it.
Voracek could be traded by next season opening up cap space, Braun only has 1 year them comes off the books, etc. Flyers still have flexibility and a lot of solid prospects to step in when needed.
-Tommycasino

Am I? Hate to say it....but it's the going rate. This isn't 2004 with a 48 million cap anymore.

Wait till July 1st....then you'll see the REAL bad contracts.

Flyers filled a need for a 2nd line center who can help their PK (which was BRUTAL), Power Play, and play a 2way game that they desperately needed on that 2nd line playing with JVR and Voracek.
- Hckygoalie31

yes, yes you are. I think you'll find out pretty quickly this is not the going rate for an average player like Hayes.

And yes, you are pointing to two goal scorers, both of which are overpaid, ignoring their goal totals, to try justify it.

What "Key Pieces" are Leafs losing? This will be fun...
- RogerRoeper

You think they keep ALL of Nylander, Kadri, Johnsson, Kapanen?

I would call all of them key pieces; some more than others.

Looking forward to your response, it should be fun.

I'm not even going to touch the Kevin Hayes contract.... just like the Flyers shouldn't have.

But Ek, you are not hearing anything about a Marner deal. Even the INSIDERS are saying things are all quiet on this front. Most assume this is now a game of chicken.

Nylander's contract is looking better everyday....
- dunner84

ya, just no the way he plays thought

You think they keep ALL of Nylander, Kadri, Johnsson, Kapanen?

I would call all of them key pieces; some more than others.

Looking forward to your response, it should be fun.
- Aetherial

I do suspect, that because of LTIR rules, one of these guys will have to wait until after opening night, to be signed.

Welcome to the new world. Contracts are not coming cheap. Hayes seems like an overpay and to some extent it is, but wait till you see other contracts that get signed in the coming weeks...

Hayes will provide a solid 2C as he some offensive ability to maybe reach 25G and 70P, but he is also a very responsible defensive Centre much like Couterier. He also will be paramount to the P.K. (which is greatly needed) and time on the second PP. He fits as a solid second line centre at least for the next couple years until either Patrick puts it all together or another solid option comes along. If that happens then he becomes one of the best 3C in the league. Either way he is insurance that they have a solid 1-2 or 1-2-3 punch for several more years.
Yes his contract seems high now, but just wait, contracts for solid Centres is not about to go down any time soon.
With the salary cap not going as high as expected there may be a lot of sellers out there. Flyers have some cap space (thanks to Hextall) so now Fletch is taking advantage of it.
Voracek could be traded by next season opening up cap space, Braun only has 1 year them comes off the books, etc. Flyers still have flexibility and a lot of solid prospects to step in when needed.
-Tommycasino
- Tommycasino

What the hell man, u r just unfoundly going to repeat this all summer i assume? those would be career highs for 27 year old Hayes... do u understand it is more likely a guy regresses, not improves... plus his career high in goals is 19...19!!! how did the NHL get in this mess...

& again.. what amazing prospect do u keep referring to?? AHL prospects & the whole lot is a gamble, crap shoot, by & large blue chip prospects r well known & always on the verge of being in the NHL.. i dont see these players per say in the current philly pipeline..??

I do suspect, that because of LTIR rules, one of these guys will have to wait until after opening night, to be signed.
- prock

I think that may have changed. I think you can count LTIR now over the summer at least in some circumstances.

I think that may have changed. I think you can count LTIR now over the summer at least in some circumstances.
- Aetherial

cool.

It's a stupid rule anyway.

What the hell man, u r just unfoundly going to repeat this all summer i assume? those would be career highs for 27 year old Hayes... do u understand it is more likely a guy regresses, not improves... plus his career high in goals is 19...19!!! how did the NHL get in this mess...

& again.. what amazing prospect do u keep referring to?? AHL prospects & the whole lot is a gamble, crap shoot, by & large blue chip prospects r well known & always on the verge of being in the NHL.. i dont see these players per say in the current philly pipeline..??
- Lockette

Not just career highs. Career highs by a 40% increase off his previous career high.

At 27.

This feels like a David Clarkson type signing, but worse.

Nylander deserved his $. Hayes does not.
- RogerRoeper

Nylander had 15 points more but was an RFA who held out. Hayes is an UFA. It becomes a bidding war. He was going to get this deal somewhere if Philly passed. I think his numbers will improve in Philly, it also isnt like he played a full season either. He played 71 games. He scored at a 62 point pace despite playing on the Rangers for 60% of the season

Nylander had 15 points more but was an RFA who held out. Hayes is an UFA. It becomes a bidding war. He was going to get this deal somewhere if Philly passed. I think his numbers will improve in Philly, it also isnt like he played a full season either. He played 71 games. He scored at a 62 point pace despite playing on the Rangers for 60% of the season
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Don't bother, he doesn't understand the simple concept that there is no logic in comparing an RFA to a UFA

You're just gonna be pissing in the wind while he's determining what flavor the window is

Not just career highs. Career highs by a 40% increase off his previous career high.

At 27.

This feels like a David Clarkson type signing, but worse.
- prock

lol.

cliff Fletcher looking to prove that you can be worse than chiarelli.

It must make you feel good to find one GM more naive than the Dubas choke show.
- spatso

We can't all be stellar outfits like the Senators.

If you guys are looking just at point totals, you're doing it wrong. Hayes has never had consistent PP1 time and if you look at his 5v5 scoring compared to other Cs in the league, it paints a much different story. The Flyers needed help on the PK, they got it. They needed a 2C to give Patrick breathing room, they got it. They needed a big body up the middle who's a good two-way player and they got it.

https://twitter.com/CapFr...tatus/1141173465740926981 Cap Friendly has Brock Nelson, Ryan O'Reilly, and Travis Zajac as closest contracts. (Yes, I realize 2/3 of the contract son this list suck.)

https://twitter.com/billm...tatus/1141352533249667074 This from Bill is kind of a cop-out but it's a point well taken.

It's free agency and of course it's a bit of an overpayment but the reactions on here are pretty absurd. There's apparently not a NMC so they don't have to protect him for the draft. The back-end of this contract will be awful but who knows what the cap will be once Seattle is on board and the new TV deal is signed? Or who knows what happens after the next lock out?

The Flyers cut all of the dead weight in the last few months, took some gambles, and arguably are a better team now than they were a week ago. Onto the RFAs, plz

Nylander's contract is looking better everyday....
- dunner84

No it's not

Don't bother, he doesn't understand the simple concept that there is no logic in comparing an RFA to a UFA

You're just gonna be pissing in the wind while he's determining what flavor the window is
- eichiefs9

The thing is, the gap between what RFAs get paid and what UFAs get paid has narrowed significantly in recent years.

I agree it's not the same, but it's not really apples to oranges anymore either, it's more like gala apples to macintosh apples.

Here's a decent read I just found on the Flyers Facebook page. Someone actually did their homework and compared Hayes's contract to more recent ones.

First line is player's name, and when they signed.
2nd line is cost of contract, how long and how old they'll be when the contract expires
3rd line is the average points that player had in the 3 years PRIOR to signing the contract. For instance, if they signed in 2019, average points was based on 2017, 2018, 2019. If they signed in 2018...the average points was based on 16, 17, 18.


Hayes signed in 2019:
7.14m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 54 pts per 82 games

Brock Nelson signed in 2019
6 mil, 6 years (33 years old)
Avg: 45 pts per 82 games

Silfverberg signed in 2019
5.25m, 5 years (33 years old)
Avg: 47 pts per 82 games

Skinner signed in 2019
9m, 8 years (35 years old)
Avg: 59 pts per 82 games

Eberle signed in 2019
5.5m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 50 pts per 82 games

E. Kane signed in 2018
7m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 51 pts per 82 games

JVR signed 2018
7m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 58 pts per 82 games

Henrique signed 2018
5.825, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 47 Pts per 82 games

Couture signed in 2018
8m, 8 years (age 38)
Avg: 60 points per 82 games

Neal signed in 2018
5.75 m, 5 years (35 years old)
Avg: 52 points per 82 games



So you see....Hayes's contract is NOT as crazy as some of you may think. It's slightly higher than expected....but sometimes you have to overpay to fill a void.

BTW, if you TRULY want to blame someone for blowing up salaries...look at the Sharks. Couture, Kane, Karlsson....now they have to sign Thornton and Pavelski.

Should be fun for them.

Nylander had 15 points more but was an RFA who held out. Hayes is an UFA. It becomes a bidding war. He was going to get this deal somewhere if Philly passed. I think his numbers will improve in Philly, it also isnt like he played a full season either. He played 71 games. He scored at a 62 point pace despite playing on the Rangers for 60% of the season
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

2018

Couture 8
Stastny 6.5
Henrique 5.8
backlund 5.3
jt miller 5.2
Hayes 5.1
Bozak 5

2019, cap expected to go up by ~2.5%....

******Hayes 7.1***** WTF!?!
nelson 6

yeah, nothing wrong there. good signing by the fletch

Here's a decent read I just found on the Flyers Facebook page. Someone actually did their homework and compared Hayes's contract to more recent ones.

First line is player's name, and when they signed.
2nd line is cost of contract, how long and how old they'll be when the contract expires
3rd line is the average points that player had in the 3 years PRIOR to signing the contract. For instance, if they signed in 2019, average points was based on 2017, 2018, 2019. If they signed in 2018...the average points was based on 16, 17, 18.


Hayes signed in 2019:
7.14m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 54 pts per 82 games

Brock Nelson signed in 2019
6 mil, 6 years (33 years old)
Avg: 45 pts per 82 games


Silfverberg signed in 2019
5.25m, 5 years (33 years old)
Avg: 47 pts per 82 games

Skinner signed in 2019
9m, 8 years (35 years old)
Avg: 59 pts per 82 games


Eberle signed in 2019
5.5m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 50 pts per 82 games

E. Kane signed in 2018
7m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 51 pts per 82 games

JVR signed 2018
7m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 58 pts per 82 games

Henrique signed 2018
5.825, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 47 Pts per 82 games

Couture signed in 2018
8m, 8 years (age 38)
Avg: 60 points per 82 games

Neal signed in 2018
5.75 m, 5 years (35 years old)
Avg: 52 points per 82 games



So you see....Hayes's contract is NOT as crazy as some of you may think. It's slightly higher than expected....but sometimes you have to overpay to fill a void.
- Hckygoalie31

Hayes has averaged 49 points per 82 games over his career, not 54.

He's a fine player, and a solid middle six player, but it's just too long.

Snakob Trouba will slither right into a new 7 year contract extension soon.
- gergeswillems

If it’s 10per year, he sure will. If it less than 9, don’t hold your breath

Here's a decent read I just found on the Flyers Facebook page. Someone actually did their homework and compared Hayes's contract to more recent ones.

First line is player's name, and when they signed.
2nd line is cost of contract, how long and how old they'll be when the contract expires
3rd line is the average points that player had in the 3 years PRIOR to signing the contract. For instance, if they signed in 2019, average points was based on 2017, 2018, 2019. If they signed in 2018...the average points was based on 16, 17, 18.


Hayes signed in 2019:
7.14m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 54 pts per 82 games

Brock Nelson signed in 2019
6 mil, 6 years (33 years old)
Avg: 45 pts per 82 games

Silfverberg signed in 2019
5.25m, 5 years (33 years old)
Avg: 47 pts per 82 games

Skinner signed in 2019
9m, 8 years (35 years old)
Avg: 59 pts per 82 games

Eberle signed in 2019
5.5m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 50 pts per 82 games

E. Kane signed in 2018
7m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 51 pts per 82 games

JVR signed 2018
7m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 58 pts per 82 games

Henrique signed 2018
5.825, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 47 Pts per 82 games

Couture signed in 2018
8m, 8 years (age 38)
Avg: 60 points per 82 games

Neal signed in 2018
5.75 m, 5 years (35 years old)
Avg: 52 points per 82 games



So you see....Hayes's contract is NOT as crazy as some of you may think. It's slightly higher than expected....but sometimes you have to overpay to fill a void.

BTW, if you TRULY want to blame someone for blowing up salaries...look at the Sharks. Couture, Kane, Karlsson....now they have to sign Thornton and Pavelski.

Should be fun for them.
- Hckygoalie31

I stopped after a I did 6 of them because every single one of your point averages for these players is wrong.