Hayes has averaged 49 points per 82 games over his career, not 54.

He's a fine player, and a solid middle six player, but it's just too long.
- BINGO!

Flyers have an aging Giroux, Voracek, and JvR and a super young core otherwise. It's a stability move and they wanted their guy. Y'all are crazy if you think he wasn't going to get this money elsewhere.

The Flyers wanted a solid 2C and they went out and got him. In the context of this current Flyers team who now have Hayes and Patrick as 2Ca and 2Cb, it's not that terrible. The deal is one year more than I would've wanted but it makes sense with Fletcher's WIN NOW mandate he was given by our Comcast overlords

Flyers are going to spend to the cap this year and after 5-7 years of mediocrity and stockpiling of assets, I'm totally fine with a Hayes overpay right now... just don't ask me about it in 3-4 years (unless they make a serious run or two in that span, of course)

Hayes has averaged 49 points per 82 games over his career, not 54.

He's a fine player, and a solid middle six player, but it's just too long.
- BINGO!

it's points average over 82 games. He played 71 in 2019, 76 in 2018 and 76 in 2017.

And I do agree...it feels too long. But based on these other contracts, it's pretty much set on the others where the other contracts are also expiring at age 34.

I stopped after a I did 6 of them because every single one of your point averages for these players is wrong.
- BINGO!

Surprising you said no to Ehlers

I stopped after a I did 6 of them because every single one of your point averages for these players is wrong.
- BINGO!

it's average points per 82 games.

Not everyone played 82....but you average it out and equate it to 82 games....if that makes sense.

I can show you the years and how those averages came to fruition if you'd like....i'd just need more time to retype it.

Here's a decent read I just found on the Flyers Facebook page. Someone actually did their homework and compared Hayes's contract to more recent ones.

First line is player's name, and when they signed.
2nd line is cost of contract, how long and how old they'll be when the contract expires
3rd line is the average points that player had in the 3 years PRIOR to signing the contract. For instance, if they signed in 2019, average points was based on 2017, 2018, 2019. If they signed in 2018...the average points was based on 16, 17, 18.


Hayes signed in 2019:
7.14m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 54 pts per 82 games

Brock Nelson signed in 2019
6 mil, 6 years (33 years old)
Avg: 45 pts per 82 games

Silfverberg signed in 2019
5.25m, 5 years (33 years old)
Avg: 47 pts per 82 games

Skinner signed in 2019
9m, 8 years (35 years old)
Avg: 59 pts per 82 games

Eberle signed in 2019
5.5m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 50 pts per 82 games

E. Kane signed in 2018
7m, 7 years (34 years old)
Avg: 51 pts per 82 games

JVR signed 2018
7m, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 58 pts per 82 games

Henrique signed 2018
5.825, 5 years (34 years old)
Avg: 47 Pts per 82 games

Couture signed in 2018
8m, 8 years (age 38)
Avg: 60 points per 82 games

Neal signed in 2018
5.75 m, 5 years (35 years old)
Avg: 52 points per 82 games



So you see....Hayes's contract is NOT as crazy as some of you may think. It's slightly higher than expected....but sometimes you have to overpay to fill a void.

BTW, if you TRULY want to blame someone for blowing up salaries...look at the Sharks. Couture, Kane, Karlsson....now they have to sign Thornton and Pavelski.

Should be fun for them.
- Hckygoalie31

so, to be clear, he's at the bottom end in production of these players, but 2nd or 3rd highest paid.

And without going through the rest of the UFA signings over the past couple of years, I suspect this is cherry picking the worst contracts out there. for example, why wouldn't David Perron be included?

do ANY of these look like good signings?

so, to be clear, he's at the bottom end in production of these players, but 2nd or 3rd highest paid.

And without going through the rest of the UFA signings over the past couple of years, I suspect this is cherry picking the worst contracts out there.

do ANY of these look like good signings?
- prock

In 3 years from now....does it look like Hayes's signing looks bad if the average 60 point player is getting 10 mil?

it's points average over 82 games. He played 71 in 2019, 76 in 2018 and 76 in 2017.

And I do agree...it feels too long. But based on these other contracts, it's pretty much set on the others where the other contracts are also expiring at age 34.
- Hckygoalie31

Add up total points. Divide it by total games. Multiply by 82. Done.

Surprising you said no to Ehlers
- Ross77

Yeah I'd be a bit shocked too, gotta be something else up.

I stopped after a I did 6 of them because every single one of your point averages for these players is wrong.
- BINGO!

He keeps trying to justify this bad contract.

Add up total points. Divide it by total games. Multiply by 82. Done.
- BINGO!

correct. Thanks for making it more in better terms.

it's average points per 82 games.

Not everyone played 82....but you average it out and equate it to 82 games....if that makes sense.

I can show you the years and how those averages came to fruition if you'd like....i'd just need more time to retype it.
- Hckygoalie31

Hey Cliff. Sorry to see math is not your thing.

This does explain why you thought Hayes was worth 7.1M.

He keeps trying to justify this bad contract.
- RafiDRW

And I keep saying the inevitable will happen.

In 3 years from now when a typical 60 point player will be making 10 mil a year....will this contract look awful?

No. It wont as long as he hits 60 points per season.

In 3 years from now....does it look like Hayes's signing looks bad if the average 60 point player is getting 10 mil?
- Hckygoalie31

that's a massive assumption, and one that is pretty much impossible due to the salary cap.

There are Players that are in the tier mentioned that got paid way less. David Perron for example.

And I keep saying the inevitable will happen.

In 3 years from now when a typical 60 point player will be making 10 mil a year....will this contract look awful?

No. It wont as long as he hits 60 points per season.
- Hckygoalie31

Which he's never done in his career to this point. At age 27.

that's a massive assumption, and one that is pretty much impossible due to the salary cap.

There are Players that are in the tier mentioned that got paid way less. David Perron for example.
- prock

David Perron is also 30 years old and is a winger. Little different.

And I keep saying the inevitable will happen.

In 3 years from now when a typical 60 point player will be making 10 mil a year....will this contract look awful?

No. It wont as long as he hits 60 points per season.
- Hckygoalie31

He has yet to do this. He averages under 50 a season. I don’t see him averaging 15 points more a season over the next 4-5 years.

David Perron is also 30 years old and is a winger. Little different.
- Hckygoalie31

And not signed for 7 years.

Which he's never done in his career to this point. At age 27.
- prock

Look at who he was playing for. A practicallly rebuilding Rangers team since their Cup final team in 2014

In Philly he will be the 2nd line center playing between JVR and Voracek. You'd have to assume his numbers will go up.

And not signed for 7 years.
- prock

Already said I was a little iffy about the 7 years. I was hoping for 5-6. But the money is pretty much right....if not a slight overpayment based on players in his category.

correct. Thanks for making it more in better terms.
- Hckygoalie31

Using that formula (which I did before someone posted it), your numbers are off. That or the NHL player's pages are off for their stats that I am pulling from.

Already said I was a little iffy about the 7 years. I was hoping for 5-6. But the money is pretty much right....if not a slight overpayment based on players in his category.
- Hckygoalie31

problem is, all those guys already have the overpayment built in.

$6M would have been the 'right' overpayment. $7.1M smells of desperation from a gm who didn't want to look stoopid for losing a 5th for nothing.

lol.

cliff Fletcher looking to prove that you can be worse than chiarelli.
- Tumbleweed

"Chuck" Fletcher

problem is, all those guys already have the overpayment built in.

$6M would have been the 'right' overpayment. $7.1M smells of desperation from a gm who didn't want to look stoopid for losing a 5th for nothing.
- Tumbleweed

This is exactly right. This is Frans Nielsen all over again. A 45ish point defensive center who got a million or two too much.

Using that formula (which I did before someone posted it), your numbers are off. That or the NHL player's pages are off for their stats that I am pulling from.
- Dyaciuk

Not sure exactly where he pulled the info from....I thought I heard someone say Capfriendly.

BTW, another note. Flyers went into last season with Lehtera (4.7m) and Dale Weiss (2.35m) combining for 7 mil in cap space...

Hayes is at 7.14 mil

Not exactly a bad move. And as I said before, 3 years from now, this contract will look cheap as long as he hits 60 pts or more per season, which is entirely possible.

Not sure exactly where he pulled the info from....I thought I heard someone say Capfriendly.

BTW, another note. Flyers went into last season with Lehtera (4.7m) and Dale Weiss (2.35m) combining for 7 mil in cap space...

Hayes is at 7.14 mil

Not exactly a bad move. And as I said before, 3 years from now, this contract will look cheap as long as he hits 60 pts or more per season, which is entirely possible.
- Hckygoalie31

I’m glad that you’re optimistic about Hayes. But paying for the future on hope does not make a good signing. Especially when the player has never shown that potential and is going into the standard declining years of a forward.

All we can do and wait and see if he bucks the trend. Because history is not on his side.